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  1. Hi

    I need help to get OTA (Over The Air) local broadcast. My wife liked Vizio M series for picture quality, but Vizio removed TV tuners (I guess to cut costs) on P and M series completely and left on some other cheaper models, like E series.

    I don't need DVR (but if it is only available in combination, no problem), only good, sensitive (to catch more channels) TV tuner, I am getting Mohu Leaf 30 indoor antenna already.

    I tried to look myself, but I think I am missing something and it takes enormous time checking reviews and features.

    I checked those already:

    1. Channel Master CM-7003, I looked at its bigger brother DVR+ 1TB on Amazon for reviews and saw a lot of negativity, so I presume CM-7003 could have the same problems.

    2. Mediasonic HW180STB, also complains about reception.

    3. ViewTV AT-163 ATSC Digital TV Converter Box and Media Player, also issues.

    And some others.

    Is there any review sites for basic TV tuners or something similar. I already wasted a week or so looking for something good.......

    I do not need DVR, nor any subscription services, I just want to watch OTA public broadcast on Vizio 4K TV (I wish I could buy LG, but my wife insists on Vizio).


    Appreciate for suggestions.

    Thanks in advance
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  2. Member
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    Purchased the View TV unit in 2014.
    Still working ok using a flash drive or external HDD.
    Initially I couldn't get it to work over HDMI to a Toshiba TV (worked OK using component hookup) but I switched to an LG set and it's fine.
    Lots of reviews at Amazon and answered questions.

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00GGVPKKC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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    Originally Posted by kisianik View Post
    Hi

    I need help to get OTA (Over The Air) local broadcast. My wife liked Vizio M series for picture quality, but Vizio removed TV tuners (I guess to cut costs) on P and M series completely and left on some other cheaper models, like E series.

    I don't need DVR (but if it is only available in combination, no problem), only good, sensitive (to catch more channels) TV tuner, I am getting Mohu Leaf 30 indoor antenna already.

    I tried to look myself, but I think I am missing something and it takes enormous time checking reviews and features.

    I checked those already:

    1. Channel Master CM-7003, I looked at its bigger brother DVR+ 1TB on Amazon for reviews and saw a lot of negativity, so I presume CM-7003 could have the same problems.

    2. Mediasonic HW180STB, also complains about reception.

    3. ViewTV AT-163 ATSC Digital TV Converter Box and Media Player, also issues.

    And some others.

    Is there any review sites for basic TV tuners or something similar. I already wasted a week or so looking for something good.......

    I do not need DVR, nor any subscription services, I just want to watch OTA public broadcast on Vizio 4K TV (I wish I could buy LG, but my wife insists on Vizio).


    Appreciate for suggestions.

    Thanks in advance
    You didn't mention the CM DVR+ 16GB, which might be worth the extra money if you want a good program guide. It costs less than the model with a 1TB HDD and offers free program guide service for the life of the device, assuming there is an Internet connection for it. (The USB WiFi adapter costs extra.) If a program guide is useful to you, the other tuners either don't offer a program guide, or are only able to use PSIP data from the broadcasts, which is less extensive, for their program guide. You won't be able to use the CM DVR+ 16GB as a DVR without adding an external HDD, but you say that using it as a DVR doesn't interest you. https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Recorder-Streaming-Applications/dp/B01GUF6AIY/

    If you have not done so, visit tvfool.com and use the "Check Your Address for Free TV" page to see what you are likely to be able to see with an indoor antenna. The channels in the report which are shaded green are the ones that you are most likely to be able to receive with an indoor antenna. Tuner performance for the external boxes does not necessarily equal that of tuners on newer TVs from LG or Samsung. You may not get all the channels you want from any of them with an indoor antenna.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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  4. Originally Posted by sambat View Post
    Purchased the View TV unit in 2014.
    Still working ok using a flash drive or external HDD.
    Initially I couldn't get it to work over HDMI to a Toshiba TV (worked OK using component hookup) but I switched to an LG set and it's fine.
    Lots of reviews at Amazon and answered questions.

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00GGVPKKC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Thanks both for replies.

    Question to sambat: have you tried playing videos from USB and which formats, does H264, if tried, plays smooth (USB2.0 is too slow). Also, have you connect it to TV with a tuner, or just to monitor. If to TV with Tuner, did you see any differences in reception?

    I also found this post here and need to have some time to digest all info (how could I miss this in the first place...).

    Will be back tomorrow, I hope with final say.

    Thanks for an ideas folks.
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    The LG TV, which the ViewTV is connected to, has a tuner.
    I found that the unit's tuner is better (in that it has less problems locking on to stations) than the LG tv tuner.

    The device records to the .mts container - video MPEG2 and audio AC3 (in Canada).

    I use a Sandisk Extreme flash drive to record (i.e. a usb3 drive in the ViewTV usb2 port) and playback either from the ViewTV to the TV or from the flash drive in a usb 2 or usb 3 port on the pc.
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  6. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post

    You didn't mention the CM DVR+ 16GB, which might be worth the extra money if you want a good program guide. It costs less than the model with a 1TB HDD and offers free program guide service for the life of the device, assuming there is an Internet connection for it. (The USB WiFi adapter costs extra.) If a program guide is useful to you, the other tuners either don't offer a program guide, or are only able to use PSIP data from the broadcasts, which is less extensive, for their program guide. You won't be able to use the CM DVR+ 16GB as a DVR without adding an external HDD, but you say that using it as a DVR doesn't interest you. https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Recorder-Streaming-Applications/dp/B01GUF6AIY/

    If you have not done so, visit tvfool.com and use the "Check Your Address for Free TV" page to see what you are likely to be able to see with an indoor antenna. The channels in the report which are shaded green are the ones that you are most likely to be able to receive with an indoor antenna. Tuner performance for the external boxes does not necessarily equal that of tuners on newer TVs from LG or Samsung. You may not get all the channels you want from any of them with an indoor antenna.
    I think currently the price for 16GB and 1 TB is the same on Amazon around $249. I am basically is using TV for evening news and some serials (when having late dinner), PC/MAC for streaming everything else. So programming is not actually very important to me, it is good to have it, but I would not pay extra just for this. My Internet speed is kinda slow (and I have an old bulletproof router, which is also slow, but very reliable, no resets for months) for now (I hope), so TV Tuner with Network Broadcasting doesn't mean anything to me as well.

    I already used the following:
    1. TVfool and got around 35 channels in GREEN.
    2. Also used Mohu search and got 138 channels for my zip code (I know that is not true).
    3. Checked Antennaweb and got only 7 channels, which is BS, because I am using a broken antenna RCA amplified antenna (very old) and still get 20+ channels. All of this done on old Samsung LCD TV.
    4. Government. DTV Reception Maps - 24 channels, feels like true.
    5. Antennasdirect they are nuts like Mohu search too much to count.
    6. And last one, Channel Master, this one is interesting, check it up. It is about the same as TVfool, just show differently.

    Thanks anyway for your contribution, more input is always welcome.

    Appreciate all for help. Now it is time to close my FireFox and Pale Moon 100+ tabs and check all available devices one by one.
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  7. Originally Posted by sambat View Post
    The LG TV, which the ViewTV is connected to, has a tuner.
    I found that the unit's tuner is better (in that it has less problems locking on to stations) than the LG tv tuner.

    The device records to the .mts container - video MPEG2 and audio AC3 (in Canada).

    I use a Sandisk Extreme flash drive to record (i.e. a usb3 drive in the ViewTV usb2 port) and playback either from the ViewTV to the TV or from the flash drive in a usb 2 or usb 3 port on the pc.
    Missed that post.

    So, you did not try to play on TV any PC recorded or downloaded video files - this is my second question, for which I will be creating another post. I really hate watching my favorite TV shows on PC screen, I want larger screen, and incoming 50 or 55 inch TV would be a great improvement. I have too many external hard drives and USB drives, so I can use them for this matter. I hope I don't have to put together another PC for this playback....

    Also. you think that a newer model would be better - ViewTV AT-263?


    Question to all. I absolutely forgot about old digital to analog converters like this one - Zinwell ZAT-970A ATSC Digital to Analog Converter, my relatives still using old tube TVs with those units, would something like this help me with no tuner TV? If yes - problem solved for the beginning at least.

    Thanks for help.
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    Originally Posted by kisianik View Post
    Question to all. I absolutely forgot about old digital to analog converters like this one - Zinwell ZAT-970A ATSC Digital to Analog Converter, my relatives still using old tube TVs with those units, would something like this help me with no tuner TV? If yes - problem solved for the beginning at least.

    Thanks for help.
    The old-school converter boxes don't have HD connections of any kind, so I don't think they will be acceptable for use with a UHD TV. The government program that encouraged their creation prohibited the inclusion of HD connections because the boxes were supposed to replace the functionality of an analog tuner made obsolete by the DTV switchover, and NTSC is SD only.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 17th Nov 2016 at 22:15.
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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  9. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by kisianik View Post
    Question to all. I absolutely forgot about old digital to analog converters like this one - Zinwell ZAT-970A ATSC Digital to Analog Converter, my relatives still using old tube TVs with those units, would something like this help me with no tuner TV? If yes - problem solved for the beginning at least.

    Thanks for help.
    The old-school converter boxes don't have HD connections of any kind, so I don't think they will be acceptable for use with a UHD TV. The government program that encouraged their creation prohibited the inclusion of HD connections because the boxes were supposed to replace the functionality of an analog tuner made obsolete by the DTV switchover, and NTSC is SD only.
    Yep, I realized this after typing the post, but it is still can let me test my antenna location, in terms of reception, isn't it? Or new, Digital Tuners have better reception as well?

    Oh, well, long reading for tonight.
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    Originally Posted by kisianik View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The old-school converter boxes don't have HD connections of any kind, so I don't think they will be acceptable for use with a UHD TV. The government program that encouraged their creation prohibited the inclusion of HD connections because the boxes were supposed to replace the functionality of an analog tuner made obsolete by the DTV switchover, and NTSC is SD only.
    Yep, I realized this after typing the post, but it is still can let me test my antenna location, in terms of reception, isn't it? Or new, Digital Tuners have better reception as well?

    Oh, well, long reading for tonight.
    The old boxes should work for testing the antenna position, if the signals for channels that you want to watch are among the stronger ones available. Note that it may be necessary to adjust the antenna now and then due to the weather or a change in seasons. (I have been using indoor antennas for years to watch TV in situations where there is no cable outlet available.)
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord, Snoopy329
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  11. Member turk690's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kisianik View Post
    ...I need help to get OTA (Over The Air) local broadcast. My wife liked Vizio M series for picture quality, but Vizio removed TV tuners (I guess to cut costs) on P and M series completely and left on some other cheaper models, like E series...
    There are a number of set-top boxes currently available like the ones you probably have searched about that will get OTA broadcasts. These are full-fledged ATSC tuners with HDMI ports, and analogue connectors (where received HD gets down-converted to 480i analogue to fulfill the supposed primary function of these boxes, which is to view ATSC on old CRT TVs). A USB connector is included, where a flash drive or external USB HDD plugged in and programs time-shifted and viewed later (the raw HD stream is recorded as *.mts files which can be viewed, not only through the box, but most other media players and computers).
    I previously used Sylvania SPAT 102 (annoying orange front display) and Homeworx HW-150PVR (died after about 18 months; overheated maybe), and currently use Homeworx (Mediasonic) HW180STB. They all show similar interfaces (probably using the same chipsets); I'm happy with the HD quality (viewed with a Panasonic PTAR100 projector) and USB functions and the fact that they are less than $50 each.
    All that said, (I see that you and reviews have noted), they have rather weak reception capabilities (taking in only the green parts in a TV Fool chart, and one or two of the yellow if you're lucky), where connecting the same antenna to current Samsung or LG TVs can get up to those in the red and and even grey parts. The sledgehammer solution to this is connect a line amplifier between the antenna (the latter should ideally be an outdoor roof-mounted type). A +20dB or better UHF amplifier adds to the cost but can succeed in lifting the gain enough to get the weak stations that may be important to you. The problem can become reversed in that connecting such an amplifier will enable reception of weak stations but distort already very strong nearby ones such that they overload the set-top, which mutes them and you don't see them. Tough, no?
    For the nth time, with the possible exception of certain Intel processors, I don't have/ever owned anything whose name starts with "i".
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  12. @turk690: Have you tried using USB port for playing various video formats from PC, did it work without any problems?

    So far I narrowed down to Channel Master 7003, ViewTV AT-164 (newer model of AT-163, I think) and Mediasonic Homeworx HW180STB. They all looks about the same. It is like flipping the coin now. I wonder the longevity issues. My relative has Zinwell analog converter box for the past 5+ years and still kicking, but all newer units last no more than 2 years or so, did not see anyone stating longer life span...

    Thanks for everyone input on this matter, posted already @ AVS forum, waiting....
    Any ideas about other forums, which specializing in TV tuners?
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    @kisianik There are only a handful of ATSC converter boxes with HDMI-out to choose from. You cannot count on any of them having a lifespan of more than two or three years, although individual units might fail sooner or last years longer than most others of the same make and model. The old-school DTA converter boxes didn't always have a long life either.

    Commercial ATSC 3.0 broadcasts are predicted to begin in several years, and you will need a different converter box to receive the new channels anyway. Supposedly UHD channels are planned.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 20th Nov 2016 at 12:03. Reason: clarity
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  14. Member turk690's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kisianik View Post
    @turk690: Have you tried using USB port for playing various video formats from PC, did it work without any problems?
    I tried *.mp4 and *.mkv files sourced externally (AVC+AAC; AVC+MP3) and they played back OK. *.webm files did not. Surprisingly, older *.mts files recorded via time-shifting on a separate HW150PVR were listed but didn't play back. Note: for time-shifting, format the intended drive separately NTFS; avoid using the box' setup menu.
    For the nth time, with the possible exception of certain Intel processors, I don't have/ever owned anything whose name starts with "i".
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  15. I purchased a Vizio last week. Have not received it yet, but called vizio about the tuner situation. I asked what tuner should i buy. They told me that the Hw-150PVR seems to work well with the vizio . This was from a Help Desk person. So i guess they have had some reports of this unit working for others.
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