BURN TO SVCD

[jkbs]

Use Premiere 6.5 to export an avi file (768x576 4:3 ratio) as a SVCD format, should be MPEG2 format with size 480x576.

Use VCDEasy 1.1.7 to burn as a SVCD - select "SVCD1.0" in the main menu.

Use Pioneer DV 355 DVD player to play it. It displays at 16:9 ratio, not 4:3 ratio as designed. Also, the resolution is not better than VCD format.

Appreciate anybody can help me to solve it. Thanks a lot.

James

[mats.hogberg]

As I'm not familiar with Premiere, I must ask: Does it have an option to set DAR? (4:3 or 16:9)
What video bitrate do you use?
How do you know that the resolution is not better than VCD (352x288)? Or do you mean the percieved richness in detail?

/Mats

[ElmarK]

The problem may be the Pioneer DVD player. Try to switch it to 16:9 mode, this may help. Some Pioneer models have a software error .

[jkbs]

Thanks mats.hogberg,

I just select "SVCD" MPEG stream in the Export/Export Timeline/Adobe MPEG Encorder. The standard settings are as follows:
Video stream type: SVCD
frame size: 480x576
Frame rate: 25
Aspect ratio: 4:3 display
bitrate: variable,avg 2.00 max 2.79

I also use VCDEasy 1.1.7 to convert a 768x576 BMP file to a MPEG file - select "SVCD" in "MPEG still type" and "4/3" in "TV aspect ratio". However, the burned SVCD shows 16:9 (about) in the TV display. But if I selcet "VCD" in the "MPEG still type", it shows a 4:3 in the TV display...

Thanks Elmark,

If I select "VCD" for "384x288 avi file" ( using Premiere MPEG Encorder) or select "VCD" for "768x576 BMP file" (using VCDEasy MPEG still type as described in the reply to mats.hogberg), it show a 4:3 ratio in the TV display. So I don't think DVD player problem. Help find anything wrong in my settings. Thanks.

James

[mats.hogberg]

Aspect ratio: 4:3 display

Well, if you tell the encoder to encode as 4:3, and your TV keeps displaying it as 16:9, then either the DAR flag (in the mpeg header) is not set correctly by the encoder, or your DVD player doesn't handle the DAR flag, or your TV ignores the signal to change DAR.
For VCD (mpeg1) there's no corresponding flag, so you have to set the TV to the correct DAR manually, AFAIK.

bitrate: variable,avg 2.00 max 2.79

If this setting doesn't improve video quality above VCD, I'd strongly suggest giving up Premiere when it comes to encoding to SVCD!

/Mats

[jkbs]

Thanks Mats,

I've no idea for the DAR setting for SVCD. Can you give me some suggestion then I will have a try...

As described in my previous post that I also used VCDEasy to convert a BMP file to a MPEG format - select "SVCD" for MPEG still type and "4/3" for "TV aspect ratio". So I think it's not Premiere's problem.

James

ps DO ANYBODY HAS SUCCESSFULLY BURN A MPEG2 FILE TO SVCD, USING VCDEASY OR OTHER SOFTWARES? PLS GIVE ME A HELP.

[mats.hogberg]

DO ANYBODY HAS SUCCESSFULLY BURN A MPEG2 FILE TO SVCD, USING VCDEASY OR OTHER SOFTWARES? PLS GIVE ME A HELP.

Yes. Frequently. With 100% success rate. No, it's probably not Premiere that's at fault when it comes to DAR. However, I strongly suspect it to be, when it comes to quality.
Why don't you encode using a stand alone encoder, like TMPGEnc? Maybe Premiere is better at exporting to AVI (preferably uncompressed for optimum end result).

/Mats

[jkbs]

Thanks Mats,

I also used TMPGEnc to convert an 768x576 avi file to MPEG2 format and used VCDEasy to burn to SVCD. The result is same as I described before - TV shows a 16:9(about) display and the quality is not better than VCD's (using TMPGEnc to convert an 384x288 avi file to MPEG1 and using VCDEasy to burn to VCD).

I wonder if anyone has succesfully using VCDEasy to burn an MPEG2 file to SVCD....

James

[mats.hogberg]

I wonder if anyone has succesfully using VCDEasy to burn an MPEG2 file to SVCD....

Like I said: No need to wonder. I'm sure it's being done 1000s of times each day all over the world.
The quality of the video lies not in the authoring stage (VCDEasy) but in the encoding stage (TMPGenc/Priemiere).
Same goes for when the info for how to display the video (4:3 or 16:9) is set - it's at the encoding stage.
A 768x576 AVI is not necessarily better than a 384x288 AVI. So, when you say that converting a 768x576 avi to SVCD yields no better result than converting 384x288 avi file to VCD MPEG1, it tells us absolutely nothing. If you take the same good (the better the better) AVI and convert to SVCD mpeg and VCD mpeg, and these look the same (disregarding size), then I'd say there's something fundamentally wrong!
A high resolution AVI doesn't have to be better than a low resolution. Higher resolutions also require the bit rate to be higher, proportionally to # of pixels per frame. It could be that the AVI doesn't contain more info than what you get when encoding to VCD?
Is it the SVCD picture that looks like a VCD on the telly, or does the SVCD mpeg (when viewed on the computer) look like the VCD mpeg?

/Mats

[jkbs]

Thanks Mats,

I've a little bit confusion about your description. As far as I know, the quality of a bigger size picture stretched to a TV screen size should be better than a small size picture strecthed to the same TV screen size...

Quote/

Is it the SVCD picture that looks like a VCD on the telly, or does the SVCD mpeg (when viewed on the computer) look like the VCD mpeg?

/Unquote

I just had a test. The quality of both SVCD and VCD is about same in the TV. But the quality of the SVCD mpeg is better when both viewed in the computer (full screen). However, the SVCD picture has been narrowed because the size is 480x576, not 768x576 (4:3 ratio).

To simply the question, I badly want to know is how to burn a SVCD mpeg to SVCD (using VCDEasy) with 4:3 ratio in the TV display...

James

[mats.hogberg]

I've a little bit confusion about your description. As far as I know, the quality of a bigger size picture stretched to a TV screen size should be better than a small size picture strecthed to the same TV screen size...

For a uncompressed image that would be true. But as mpeg is compressed, bitrate also has to be taken into the calculation. A SVCD resolution image would take 2.73 times the bitrate of a VCD resolution image "to take full advantage" of the increased resolution. If you go below 2.73 times the VCD bitrate, the percieved quality increase will not be what the increased resolution leads you to expect.

To simply the question, I badly want to know is how to burn a SVCD mpeg to SVCD (using VCDEasy) with 4:3 ratio in the TV display...

Again, the SVCD DAR (4:3 or 16:9) is not set at the authoring (VCDEasy) stage, but in the encoding stage, by the encoder. No matter if the mpeg2 is 4:3 or 16:9, the authoring is done in exactly the same way. I've once or twice forgotten to set a 16:9 movie to 16:9 in TMPGEnc, and it was played at 4:3 with the lower part of the image cut off. Using a hex editor, it was simply to change the DAR flag in the mpeg and reauthor.

/Mats

[jkbs]

Thanks again, Mats,

Quote/
For a uncompressed image that would be true. But as mpeg is compressed, bitrate also has to be taken into the calculation. ..
/Unquote

To simply the question, I just want to have a better resolution in the TV display. So what is your solution to achieve it...

Quote/
the SVCD DAR (4:3 or 16:9) is not set at the authoring (VCDEasy) stage, but in the encoding stage, by the encoder.
/Unquote

At the moment I don't have TMPGEnc formal version which can convert an avi file to MPEG2. But I think we can use VCDEasy for handling still image as a test. As I described before that select "SVCD" for MPEG still type" and "4/3" for "TV aspect ratio". Could you help tell me what other settings required so that we have a proper encoding stage.

James

[mats.hogberg]

Well, to get a good SVCD, you have to keep the bit rate above 2000 kbps. Lower, and it will not look good. To me, that is. This is a matter of personal taste.
I usually encode VBR with max allowed SVCD bit rate as max (2600), 2000 as avg, and 300 as min.
This will always give a better (in my opinion) end result than a VCD. And it better had, as I'm throwing 2.5 times the # of CD's at the movie, compared to if I'd settled for VCD...

As for stills, here (unlike when we're dealing with mpeg video) VCDEasy actually encodes the source to mpeg. However, I don't know if
A) mpeg stills have a DAR flag at all
or
B) VCDEasy uses this (if there is any), or merely uses the 16:9/4:3 setting to resize the image properly.
As i know for a fact that TMPGenc and VCDEasy treats the DAR flag correctly for mpeg2 video, your problem is not in the applications used, but most likely in the hardware used to play the SVCD.

But honestly - it's just a matter of pressing the 4:3 / 16:9 button in the remote for the TV, innit?

/Mats

[RabidDog]

do all this stuff on short clips (about 5 mins) and use a cdrw until you figure out the correct settings . Only change ONE thing at a a time . Experiment with the "keep aspect ratio" of tmpgenc. As mentioned check your player is handling aspect properly... test clips on puter after burning using windvd or powerdvd Of the burned cd. Then play on dvd player. Everyones setup is different so what works for others may not work for you and vice versa.

[jkbs]

Thanks both for Mats and RabidDog,

It's okay when played with powerDVD. It seems hardware problem. Anyhow, I will have a further try...

James