Beware Meritline

[defense]

@ Savant, very smart saying you didn't reply because of my insults. The truth though, is that you didn't respond, because you don't have a leg to stand on and you know it. I've supplied facts..very clear facts and i'm through with this post but I will say that your lack of any factual information on this topic as well as the fact that you threw in very INSIGNIFICANT information about how you do BETA testing for M$ supplied ZILCH to this post. How you can even muster the ability to continuously ramble on with such fiction is beyond me. Just curious..anytime you are wrong in a debate/arguement...do you feel the need to say you do Beta testing for Microsoft? We are talking about MEDIA here...what does your BETA testing have to do with anything?

Wait..your testing Media....I guess your testing the CDR's windows and Office come on...must be a tough job.....

[Lobe]

Savant, again, why won't even Meritline say they were indeed Maxell's? If Maxell lied I assure you Meritline and others would be suing the pants off of them for all this damage it has done to them. Even Meritline doesn't stand behind them as Maxell's! Meritline would be filthy rich if Maxell lied about this. Although these discs are junk and that happens to match Meritline's customer service, packaging and relibility to even get what you ordered.... hmmmm? So why isn't Meritline cooperating with this but Maxell is?
Again, did you ask Meritline if these were real Maxell discs? Did YOU?

[LanEvo7]

You're DAMN right big companies lie. They will lie and lie repeatedly right to your face if it is in their OWN best interest. They consider it the cost of corporate business. If they get caught they pay the fine and write it off as a 'business expense', or they claim bankruptcy and walk away.

Again you go on with this "conspiracy" theory to disprove every single one of the facts.

While, the whole time you haven't offered ONE shread of proof on this whole thing. See in order to actually disprove my points you have to offer FACTS that directly relate to the incident that support you whole consipiracy within Maxell.

Japan had a bad economy for the past three/four years, and plenty of Japanese companies lost money including Maxell. Losses do not translate into screwing the customer. Did NEC go and make faulty computers for its customers? Did Fujitsu go start making bad hard drives for people? Yet suddenly questionable Maxells start appearing during the same time they've been loosing money and dvd burning has become popular; there has to be a connection between them that is so solid that explains a whole conspiracy within Maxell.

If you think Maxell is lying, YOU have to prove it. Burden of proof is on you.

The only fact you have right now is that Maxell's media code is on the disc. Even then how does that translate into a whole conspiracy for Maxell screwing its customers for a minor profit. We have seen in the past that DVD codes have been stolen. Extremely thin piece of evidence. If there was the Nike symbol on a sneaker, does that automatically mean its made by Nike? TDK had its code stolen by Princo before, wait, that must have been some conspiracy by TDK to screw its customers too right?

6) Look at this: [links to eBay auctions where 'questionable' media is being sold] So what you are telling me is Sony and Maxell teamed up to make these discs, and distributed them under a different disc name right?
We covered this already. Many manufacturers make media under different brands. I never suggested any 'teaming up'. Those are your words not mine.

I can't believed you answer this in such a way. Both Maxell and Sony are respectable companies in the DVD media field. You are telling me that these discs with high rates of failure when compared to their authentic discs are made by them? How can you explain the Sony side part of the story? I didn't see Sony post ANYTHING about this either. Another scam incident by Sony to screw its customers right?

That seems to be yet another issue you are keen to avoid. Any explanation for why Maxell would hear about 'fakes' in April and not issue a statement until July? If they were such 'obvious' fakes as you claim why not issue a statement right away? Why wait?

Where did it say that Maxell heard about this in April? These discs surfaced in April. How does this translate into Maxell knowing about it in April? The TDK incident went on for longer before TDK posted anything about it.


Savant your arguements are getting weak. You continue to explain the whole incident as one big plan by Maxell to gain a profit because their parent company lost money. Then you go on to post some companies that were lying. Well those companies were making away with MILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars. How much profit do you think is in this whole thing? It is wayyyy below a million.

[Savant]

Defense wrote:

Savant, very smart saying you didn't reply because of my insults.

Defense, I didn't reply to you because your remarks were insolent and inflamatory in nature. I personally make a point of not replying to messages like that since it only encourages the person to act that way in the future.

In a diuscussion like this, even though it is heated, it is important that you keep discussion on the TOPIC and not the INDIVIDUALS. Personal attacks are never tolerated in these forums, and if you don't believe me, ask any moderator.

To you I offer a maxim: Attack the words and not the writer.

Once you appreciate the value of that statement I will respond to your posts in future. Until then your flames will be ignored.

Lobe wrote:

Again, did you ask Meritline if these were real Maxell discs? Did YOU?

The response I received from Meritline when I asked about this in the summer was that they simply stated the facts. That being that the discs have a Maxell media ID but that Maxell has said they didn't make them.

Savant, again, why won't even Meritline say they were indeed Maxell's?

Technically they weren't Maxells in the sense they weren't BRANDED as Maxell. If JVC makes a disc for Sony and brands it as Sony, what do you call it? A Sony disc or a JVC disc? I tend to call them by the stamped name, and then reference the manufacturer should I want to discuss the disc in forums like this. Meritline sorta took the middle of the road on this one. They called them Maxell OEM and not 'Maxell'. That indicates that while Maxell MADE them Maxell is not RESPONSIBLE for them.

People do understand that OEM products are NOT supported by the manufacturer right? So an OEM copy of Windows is NOT supported by Microsoft, it's supported by whatever computer company distributes it. (Dell, Compaq etc)

Meritline and others would be suing the pants off of them for all this damage it has done to them.

If anyone Meritline might sue the DISTRIBUTOR, but nor Maxell. Since the discs were OEM discs then Maxell is not responsible for any problems with them. They may be calling them 'fakes' to deflect any bad publicity this may cause.


LanEvo7 wrote:

Again you go on with this "conspiracy" theory to disprove every single one of the facts.

Conspiracy? I'm sorry but this is reality. Companies lie. They lie often and they lie repeatedly. They usually don't PLAN to lie, but if something that happens to threaten their image, they will lie their butts off if it will save their skin.

While, the whole time you haven't offered ONE shread of proof on this whole thing. See in order to actually disprove my points you have to offer FACTS that directly relate to the incident that support you whole consipiracy within Maxell.

You keep missing the point here. NO ONE has any proof here aside from two facts:

-The media was stamped with a Maxell media ID
-The media was created with a stamper (a physical device) that had the Maxell media ID on it.

Those are the ONLY two 'proofs' here. Neither you nor I have offered any additional proof since we don't have access to additional proof.

The problem is that your entire arguement rests on ONE statement by Maxell. You assert that Maxell's statement is true even though it is only WORDS as compard to my FACTS. No one can say the media is 'lying' since the media ID is there.

If you want to assert that the media has been faked then *YOU* need proof, not me. I have all the proof I need. The media has a Maxell stamp, and until I see some PROOF that proves the media ID was faked I will continue to believe that.

I am not suggesting some huge conspiracy. What I am suggesting is that I BELIEVE the discs were made by Maxell and then they lied about making them. No conspiracy. I don't necessarily believe that they planned this in advance. It's quite likely that they didn't plan for this to happen, but when it did they covered it up.

If you think Maxell is lying, YOU have to prove it. Burden of proof is on you.

You can't have it both ways. You want me to accept what Maxell says as truth or prove otherwise but you refuse to do the same.

The media has a Maxell media ID. PROVE that it is fake without using Maxell's statement. (which is NOT considered proof unless sworn as an affidavit)

Right now my case is stronger than yours since I have PHYSICAL proof (the discs were stamped with the Maxell media ID) and you only have 'verbal' proof in the form of a denial by Maxell. THEY have offered no proof to support their claim the discs are fake. Read their statement. All they basically say is that they are 'pissed' at the whole incident and that they will 'take action' against those responsible. Words, nothing more.

You continue to explain the whole incident as one big plan by Maxell to gain a profit because their parent company lost money. Then you go on to post some companies that were lying. Well those companies were making away with MILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars. How much profit do you think is in this whole thing? It is wayyyy below a million.

You think so? I don't.

You can't put a price on lost profits because of a bad reputation.

Regards,

Savant

[LanEvo7]

You keep missing the point here. NO ONE has any proof here aside from two facts:

-The media was stamped with a Maxell media ID
-The media was created with a stamper (a physical device) that had the Maxell media ID on it.

So please explain to me how those two facts translate into Maxell creating these discs to gain a minor profit and screwing the customer. Please also explain how just because of this media code, there is no POSSIBLE way that it was stolen and Maxell HAS to be lying.

[Lobe]

Savant,
can you please post the quoted response from Meritline, as they would not even answer me when I REPEATEDLY asked if the were made by Maxell.
This information would be very helpful forthgoing.
thanks.

[Savant]

Lobe wrote:

can you please post the quoted response from Meritline, as they would not even answer me when I REPEATEDLY asked if the were made by Maxell. This information would be very helpful forthgoing.

They did not state that the discs were made by Maxell, they said the discs had a Maxell media ID code, and they also said that Maxell had claimed the discs were not legitimate. They did not make a statement as to what they believed to be true, they just told me what they knew. Unfortunately I can't post anything since this was a phone call and not email. (however I don't post contents of email anyway)

Meritline is unfortunately caught in the middle on this issue, and I kinda feel bad for them. I know from experience (and from past dealings with them) that they would not knowingly sell media they knew was illegitimate.

LanEvo7 wrote

You keep missing the point here. NO ONE has any proof here aside from two facts:

-The media was stamped with a Maxell media ID
-The media was created with a stamper (a physical device) that had the Maxell media ID on it.
So please explain to me how those two facts translate into Maxell creating these discs to gain a minor profit and screwing the customer. Please also explain how just because of this media code, there is no POSSIBLE way that it was stolen and Maxell HAS to be lying.

I don't have to explain since *I'm* not the one that thinks the media ID code is fake. Is it POSSIBLE that the media code was faked? Sure, anything is possible. However I don't consider it PROBABLE.

Like I said before, it all comes down to what you believe.

-If you believe the evidence then you believe that Maxell made the media
-If you believe Maxell's denial then you believe that the media is fake

Either way we seem to be going round and round on this debate since neither of us is willing to change our position. Again I ask if there is any point to continuing to beat this dead horse?

Regards,

Savant

[Lobe]

at least Maxell has a statement regarding this and stands by it. Meritline won't even touch the question, so, what I'm I to believe? No answer, nothing, amazing, nothing on Meritline's site. Only a major hassle, without answers. Who would any reasonable person believe?

Meritline, has given us ZERO reason to believe them at all! In fact there is nothing to believe, they don't even claim that they were Maxell or Maxell OEM or Maxell related in anyway, they only sold and advertised them as such. They do not stand behind anything they sell.
Any reasonable, legitmate company would've offered refunds/replacements if they found out this happened if THEY really were the victim. but no it seems it's only peopl who bought from Meritline who are the victims, it would appear Meritline still profited handsomely off of this scam. right? as they didn't contact consumers or offer refunds.They made their $$$$.

[Savant]

at least Maxell has a statement regarding this and stands by it. Meritline won't even touch the question, so, what I'm I to believe?

Actually Meritline has taken a very predictable position. They are taking NEITHER side since they don't know what to believe. The media says one thing and Maxell says another. If I was in management there I would dump my remaining stock and sit on the fence until more details were available.

Remember, Meritline doesn't buy from Maxell, they buy from a DISTRIBUTOR. That distributor may buy from ANOTHER distributor. It's impossible to know how many times a product (ANY product) gets sold before it reaches a store. Meritline has likely asked their distributor for an explanation and they may have asked THEIR distributor for an explanation etc.

Any reasonable, legitmate company would've offered refunds/replacements if they found out this happened if THEY really were the victim.

That's not a reasonable statement at all. Meritline doesn't know the true story (no one does) and the money has to come from somewhere. They're not Amazon or IBM, they can't afford to toss out thousands of dollars in refunds on rumours or a whim. If you want a company like that they you should be dealing with a big name store like Amazon or Best Buy and if there is a problem they can afford to soak up the loss with no questions asked. Of course be prepared to pay a premium for your goods

Meritline does have a straight forward return policy listed on their website. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are, if a person does not agree with ANY company's return policy, then they should shop elsewhere. That goes for online or brick and mortar stores.

Regards,

Savant

[LanEvo7]

Now I truely believe that you are somehow affliated with Meritline and your relationship isn't just merchant-customer. You speak of Meritline as the good little angel that would never try to cheat its customers. You continue to shift the blame onto someone else and even gone as far as to fabricate a whole story about how a big repectable company like Maxell put its reputation on the line for a minor profit, but Meritline was the poor innocent soul that was caught in the middle of this. Its not the first time Meritline has been caught lying to its customers.

[Savant]

You can believe the sky is falling, that doesn't make it true. I buy from Meritline, that's it. If you want to make a big conspiracy out of this (wasn't it you who was accussing ME of generating conspiracies earlier) then that's your business. You seem to strongly support Maxell in this arguement but you don't see me saying that you work for Maxell do you?

Anyway it's time for this thread to end. I've said everything I can say, as have you. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Regards,

Savant

[kabanero]

Right Savant,

Get a life, and get a girlfriend, and quit Meritline.

[Savant]

I think you need to learn your geography dude.

Me = Canada
Meritline = California
You = Back to school for remedial geography classes

[shakes head]

Regards,

Savant

[defense]

IDIOT SAVANT SAID:

I think you need to learn your geography dude.

Me = Canada
Meritline = California
You = Back to school for remedial geography classes

..humm...Interesting...Idiot Savant says I should attack the words, not the writer....but look at your quote there...looks like you need to practice what you preach. Speaking of going back to school...I think everyone needs to look up the word IDIOT SAVANT in the dictionary...it defines this IDIOT PERFECTLY.

Figure even an IDIOT SAVANT would know not to CRY like a sissy to the mods and then ABUSE forum policy themselves. Yes..that would be a sure sign of a COMPLETE IDIOT SAVANT...for those who don't wanna bother looking it up in the dictionary, i'll quote Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.

idiot sa.vant - 1: a mentally defective person who exhibits exceptional skill or brilliance in some limited field. (WE KNOW THAT FIELD ISN'T MEDIA OR BETA TESTING )

2) a person who is highly knowledgable in one subject but knows little about anything else.

So I guess the ONLY thing that remains to be seen, is what ONE thing IDIOT SAVANT is knowledgable in...... Maybe they should create a new definition for 'TOTAL' Idiot Savant

[Savant]

Consider yourself reported to the mods. *plonk*

Regards,

Savant

[gll99]

I hope no one locks this thread it's very informative. 8)

[stiltman]

*plonk*

How can you PLONK someone here?
I didn't think you could do it in forums

PLONK: Newsgroup expression for applying a filter so that your news reader will disregard all message headers that are from a certain poster.....

[Savant]

How can you PLONK someone here?
I didn't think you could do it in forums

In a literal sense you can't do it in THESE forums, but many forums have the abaility to ignore users so their messages don't display. I thought they had that feature here, but they don't unfortunately.

Nevertheless, one doesn't need a filter to weed out rude and obnoxious messages. I'll leave him to the mods to sort out.

Regards,

Savant