Dazzle Capture with Wins 10

[lollo]

You don’t own a recommended frame TBC and you give your input on the effectiveness of those based on other people’s experiences.

Are you sure? Me and the group of people I am part of (dedicated to capture old TV shows) own several TBCs, and btw the name "frame" you used is not appropriate. And on top of that we are not limited to VHS/S-VHS sources.

Before you open your mouth you should start your brain and realize who you are talking to!

Finally, do not hide behind somebody else, talk for yourself.

[Gary34]

I realize that you have a lot of experience and I didn’t intend to get into a back and forth with you. You kinda show up really hostile every time someone mentions a card that isn’t an IO data or a Haugpauge.

Me and the group of people I am part of (dedicated to capture old TV shows) own several TBCs, and btw the name "frame" you used is not appropriate.

Frame sync, anyways I never hear you state your personal experience with AVT or Datavideo units.

[lollo]

You kinda show up really hostile every time someone mentions a card that isn’t an IO data or a Haugpauge.

No Gary, I am just hostile against the falsity that are written about these two cards. These lies are not supported by any fact or real data, just blah blah.

If you read my old posts, you can see that I always recommended the 710USB and the 600USB and few others as well, because they are excellent. But they are out of productions: if you own them ok, it is absolutely fine, but if you are looking for a card now you can just buy the USB-Live2 and the GV-USB2 because they are performing the same.

And I also recognized that your point about the DV bridge to USB is a nice feature.

[lollo]

Frame sync, anyways I never hear you state your personal experience with AVT or Datavideo units.

What do you want to hear? I (we) use them only when needed, because they are not really fully transparent, and we aim for the best quality for archiving memories. They are inside the workflow for tapes needing a rebuild of the base of the time between the frames; it happens when there is a physical defect in the media, or some marginal synch loss, poor recording, etc., leading to skipped frames and then a/v asynch among others bad results.

But you know what? I always perform a dual capture without them, to get some additional frame that otherwise is missed/replaced in the "cleaning" operation performed by the TBC. Just to let you understand how much we are obsessed (and I save you the description of the nightmare AviSynth processing to rebuild what is supposed to be the original)

[Gary34]

But you know what? I always perform a dual capture without them, to get some additional frame that otherwise is missed/replaced in the "cleaning" operation performed by the TBC. Just to let you understand how much we are obsessed (and I save you the description of the nightmare AviSynth processing to rebuild what is supposed to be the original)

I’ve read about it. I’ve learned a good amount from a lot of your post.

[Gary34]

But you know what? I always perform a dual capture without them, to get some additional frame that otherwise is missed/replaced in the "cleaning" operation performed by the TBC. Just to let you understand how much we are obsessed (and I save you the description of the nightmare AviSynth processing to rebuild what is supposed to be the original)

That is way above and beyond what most people would wanna do for home videos. I just hit capture and then Vdub says no drops and then I go to the next step. I was wondering your experience with the AVT 8710s, Datavideo TBCs, and I guess the BV TBC 10s but with the Big Voo Doo I’ve heard there aren’t that many that are good. I’m mainly wondering about your experience with AVTs and Datavideo units. I don’t doubt if you have experience with them but I never read anything about your personal experience with the recommended TBCs. I’m not trying to be rude.

[CaptureCraft]

I just hit capture and then Vdub says no drops and then I go to the next step.

Vdub can report only about frames lost after it captured them. You have to have really bad setup to make it happen.

[Gary34]

Vdub can report only about frames lost after it captured them. You have to have really bad setup to make it happen.

As soon as Vdub drops a frame you see it in the counter on the right. You don’t have to have a bad setup to drop frames.

[CaptureCraft]

Vdub can report only about frames lost after it captured them. You have to have really bad setup to make it happen.

As soon as Vdub drops a frame you see it in the counter on the right. You don’t have to have a bad setup to drop frames.

Yes, you'll see, but why Vdub would drop a frame?

[Gary34]

You’re right Vdub can only report a drop after it is captured. It can’t report a drop before it is captured because it hasn’t happened yet. I use Vdub 1.9 and it has a counter on the right that tells you when drops happen as they happen.

Virtualdub isn’t causing the drop. Vdub is telling you hey there was a dropped frame there. When you capture analog media and it is dropping frames like that you are trying to download corrupt data. The drops happen because of the analog side of things. It’s not because of the software. That’s why people use TBCs and es10/15s.

[CaptureCraft]

Vdub is telling you hey there was a dropped frame there.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no such thing. There is no flag or any other explicit sign anywhere in the capture chain.
The only thing here is timing, which could tell that if there is no new frame at certain time, then maybe, just maybe, the frame is missing.
It's a guess work.
So, the only way for Vdub to know if the frame is dropped is if it was received by Vdub but not recorded into a file.
And that could happen only if the setup is bad, like slow hard drive and/or CPU, so Vdub doesn't have enough time to record it, so it has to drop it.
There is no way to tell for sure if frames were dropped before they reached Vdub.
So, if you really want to be sure, you have to do at least 2 captures and then run frame-by-frame comparison.
I do it all the time.

[Gary34]

Here is the dropped frame counter.
[Attachment 89966 - Click to enlarge]

So, the only way for Vdub to know if the frame is dropped is if it was received by Vdub but not recorded into a file.
And that could happen only if the setup is bad, like slow hard drive and/or CPU, so Vdub doesn't have enough time to record it, so it has to drop it.

Analog tapes were captured on old Pentium 4s. They weren’t fast CPUs. Capturing only uses one core so single core speed is what is important. Any CPU made in the last decade has the core speed for capture. I just looked for something with two cores and two drives that was windows 7. You are making up why drops happen. Virtualdub doesn’t receive the frame because it is too late and that’s when it drops because it wasn’t there when it was supposed to be. Virtualdub knows when a frame is supposed to be there. Vdub doesn’t receive the frame to drop it. To keep your computer from dropping frames you don’t want it to have anything else going on and disconnect from the internet.

[CaptureCraft]

Here is the dropped frame counter.
[Attachment 89966 - Click to enlarge]

You don't need to show that. I know VD.

Virtualdub doesn’t receive the frame because it is too late and that’s when it drops because it wasn’t there when it was supposed to be.

What?!? Why? what is your assumption is based on?
Have you ever seen VD's logs with all the timings?
If it would drop every "late" frame you would get half of what you have now.

[Gary34]

If it would drop every "late" frame you would get half of what you have now.

It drops every frame that is too much later than the expected time code. The audio doesn’t drop so you get audio desync.

[CaptureCraft]

If it would drop every "late" frame you would get half of what you have now.

It drops every frame that is too much later than the expected time code. The audio doesn’t drop so you get audio desync.

Again, what is your assumption is based on?
Is it in docs? Have you run tests? Any other reliable sources?

[Gary34]

There is a lot of forum information about how that works on this forum and digitalfaq. I have done test on the stuff that you are talking about just by capturing. My capture computer has two cores and is pretty slow. I know a faster drive and CPU won’t help with dropped frames. People did this when computers were very slow. There is information about how Vdub works on both forums.

[Gary34]

There is no way to tell for sure if frames were dropped before they reached Vdub.
So, if you really want to be sure, you have to do at least 2 captures and then run frame-by-frame comparison.
I do it all the time.

Maybe you have a capture card that doesn’t report dropped frames.