Fitting a movie onto one CDR using KVCD

[jimmalenko]

I admire your efforts, but I have a few questions:

*Save this blank project by hitting the save button on the main screen on the right side where it says Setting, Load, Save. Save it with the name Unlocked in that directory.

All that does is save the default template to a template called unlocked. I tried it and tmpgenc defaulted to a NTSC VCD template. That's all fine and well for people in NTSC land, but NBG for PAL users.

***

*find the system tab and select MPEG-1 System (VBR)

I always had the belief that this needs to be set to VideoCD (non-standard) for KVCD/XVCD, but I could be wrong.

***

(Don't you wish everyone would answer your questions this way?)

[ZippyP.]

color=red]motion search lowest quality (very fast).[/color]

I think motion search estimate is good for speed and quality. Your choice.

[deckard8]

Download my TmpgEnc Template.

http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/deckard/deckard.mcf
(rightclick/save as) or paste into browser or use Firefox browser)

Pop it in the 'Template' folder.
Use this wizard all the way through.

[mats.hogberg]

*now open nero or your burning software
make a video cd but it is highly important that you turn off "standard compliancy" otherwise it will try to re-encode it for you and make it the wrong size.
* burn it, pop it into your dvd and see if it plays. If it doesn't you're out of luck on your dvd player and it won't work no matter what.

...or Nero has f*cked all your efforts up. Try the same mpeg, but author with VCDEasy instead. If it still won't play, then you can be sure your player has problems!

/Mats

[jam99]

Thanks for your help all!!

Believe it or not I'm still encoding using TMPGEnc which is currently @ 77% complete after 63+hours......I really need to get a new comp.
I will write back my results.....and again thanks.

[mats.hogberg]

63 hrs + What box do you run? Amiga 500?

/Mats

[Shadowmistress]

#1.

All that does is save the default template to a template called unlocked. I tried it and tmpgenc defaulted to a NTSC VCD template. That's all fine and well for people in NTSC land, but NBG for PAL users.

*Now on the left at the bottom you should see the Unlocked template. Choose it.
*Load up your video and set aspect ratio to 4:3 525 line (ntsc) if you're in north america, 4:3 625 (pal) if you're in europe, next

Short attention span much?

#2.

I always had the belief that this needs to be set to VideoCD (non-standard) for KVCD/XVCD, but I could be wrong.

This is what I suggest using tmpgenc and nero only. (You don't really need any other software or kvcd.)

#3.

...or Nero has f*cked all your efforts up. Try the same mpeg, but author with VCDEasy instead. If it still won't play, then you can be sure your player has problems!

He doesn't know how to burn an XVCD yet and you expect him to figure out how to use a program as complex as VCDEasy?

#4.

Believe it or not I'm still encoding using TMPGEnc which is currently @ 77% complete after 63+hours

Is that how long it takes for all movies or is it just this one? If it's just this one file you may be able to improve performance by changing some environmental settings.

[ZippyP.]

He doesn't know how to burn an XVCD yet and you expect him to figure out how to use a program as complex as VCDEasy?

Not that complex, and you could always look it and find that there's lots of guides to help you.

[mats.hogberg]

He doesn't know how to burn an XVCD yet and you expect him to figure out how to use a program as complex as VCDEasy?

Well, if getting to grips with a "complex" tool is what has to be done to perform a specific task...
My first attempt at creating a VCD was "assisted" by Nero - did it work out? No. VCD not recognized by player. Tried again. Gave up. Sulked. Took another look - found VCDEasy. Took same mpg as in my first attempts, authored with VCDEasy (not that hard, specially when there are so many guides to be found here and at the VCDEasy site). VCD played no problem.
(To be honest, I've later learned that using the VCD menu feature in Nero is what wrecks the VCD, but since Nero always prompted me to make a menu, that was what I did, and being a noob, I even thought it'd be cool with a title menu)
That's why I discourage the use of Nero for much more than writing pre made images to writable media - Depending on version, there's no telling what part (if any) of the authoring process (be it VCD, SVCD or DVD) is broken in the particular version (of the countless that's been released) of Nero you happen to use.

/Mats

[jimmalenko]

#1.

All that does is save the default template to a template called unlocked. I tried it and tmpgenc defaulted to a NTSC VCD template. That's all fine and well for people in NTSC land, but NBG for PAL users.

*Now on the left at the bottom you should see the Unlocked template. Choose it.
*Load up your video and set aspect ratio to 4:3 525 line (ntsc) if you're in north america, 4:3 625 (pal) if you're in europe, next

Short attention span much?

No. That's not the only setting you have to change. What about frame rate ? What about Video format ? What about GOP structure ?

No biggie really

#2.

I always had the belief that this needs to be set to VideoCD (non-standard) for KVCD/XVCD, but I could be wrong.

This is what I suggest using tmpgenc and nero only. (You don't really need any other software or kvcd.)

The point I was trying to make is that if you set it to MPEG-1 System (VBR), playability/compatibility is reduced AFAIK.

[Shadowmistress]

No. That's not the only setting you have to change. What about frame rate ? What about Video format ? What about GOP structure ?

IMO, when you're making a non-standard vcd, there is some room to play with these features. Tmpgenc will blank out Video format when you're making an Mpeg-1 system VBR disc.
You can choose default GOP (IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB) for anything that is 23.976 fps and over and it will be fine. Once you change the framerate to anything that says "internally....(something else)", that's when tmpgenc will change your GOP structure to "IPPPPP (GOP for nonstandardized framerate)". I find many players will have trouble playing this so I don't go lower than 23.976. If the player recognizes it but has trouble playing the framerate the picture/sound will stutter, but at least you know it can play. I wasn't going for a full-tailored perfect finished product, I was going for the best shot at making it work and the fastest. We can always troubleshoot later.

The point I was trying to make is that if you set it to MPEG-1 System (VBR), playability/compatibility is reduced AFAIK.

Compatibility is reduced compared to a standard VCD, not compared to VBR. Have you ever read the popup screen?

Sets system stream format

<>MPEG-1 System (automatic)

Outputs MPEG1 system stream. If there is any VBR format stream,
it will be outputted in VBR mode.

<>MPEG-1 System (VBR)

Always output MPEG1 system stream in VBR mode

<>MPEG-1 Video-CD

Outputs in CBR mode Mpeg1 system stream which supports Video CD standard.
To fully support VCD standard,some value (e.g.biterate) have to be set according to the standard.

<>MPEG-1 Video-CD (non-standard)

Outputs MPEG1 system stream for VideoCD. If there is ant VBR format stream, it is outputted in VBR mode.

This mode is not recommended since MPEG file in this mode is not compatible with VCD standard.

<>MPEG-2 program (VBR)

Always outputMPEG2 program stream in VBR mode

<>MPEG-2 Super VideoCD (VBR)

Outputs MPEG2 program stream which is compatible with Super VideoCD Standard, in VBR mode.

To be sully compatible with SVCD standard, some value(e.g.biterate) of video have to be selected according to SVCD standard.

IMO, "MPEG-1 Video-CD nonstandard" implies that the dvd player will assume its a constant biterate. I believe this because it defaults to CBR when you make a standard VCD. If video has VBR(Variable Biterate) then tmpgenc will switch it to that anyway. He can use either setting in the directions I gave in the earlier post because he's using CBR. That's only good for setting the filesize. Once he gets the hang of it he'll want to switch to VBR or CQ for encoding for better picture quality which means System VBR would be more appropriate as a standard.

He doesn't know how to burn an XVCD yet and you expect him to figure out how to use a program as complex as VCDEasy?

I just wanted to keep it simple for the guy and save him some time. There is no need to learn an extra program when you can use what you've got, especially if you're already frustrated. Nero has always made stable disks for me, but I do admit that I rarely use it's menu feature and that it can sometimes throw a monkey wrench into the mix. I should have specified to turn menu off, so I stand corrected on that point.
I've haven't had the pleasure of using VCDEasy yet but will have to soon to make complex menus. I tend not to advise people to use software I haven't tried myself yet.

[jam99]

Well low and behold......85 hours later I finally got it right with all of your help. Thanks!! I was able to burn the movie to one disc and it plays on my DVD player (an Apex 1200ad) although it does seem to stutter a bit but still watchable.

Happy as I am I was wondering if there's a setting within jim's tutorial that I can use that will speed up the encoding process? I know my comp is a piece o' crap (PIII 550mhZ-256MB RAM) but there's gotta be some way to speed up this process....no?

Thanks again all!!

[jimmalenko]

Happy as I am I was wondering if there's a setting within jim's tutorial that I can use that will speed up the encoding process? I know my comp is a piece o' crap (PIII 550mhZ-256MB RAM) but there's gotta be some way to speed up this process....no?

From the guide:

Change the Motion search precision to High Quality (Slow)

You can change this setting. If your source is decent quality, you could try setting it to Motion Estimate Search (fast). This should make a remarkable difference in time, but quality may suffer.

I also outlined the rate control mode. You can also use 2-pass VBR. This can improve video quality. A word of caution though - I only suggest using this instead of CBR if you don't care about how much time it takes to encode and you plan on setting the rate control very low in order to accommodate for a long movie. When I set it to VBR on my computer the movie encoding time will take 9 hours instead of the normal 4-5 for me.

VBR takes time. CBR takes half that time. You gotta make a tough decision there. If you want to cram it all onto 1 disc, there has to be at least one sacrifice out of quality and encoding time.

BTW A P3-550 w/ 256 RAM is the source of most of your speed issues. The other thing you can do is set the both priorities for TMPGenc to high (when working and when idle) in Options > Task priority. Not using your PC for anything else while it's encoding will also speed it up.

[jam99]

Thanks Jim.

I think one of my major problems with the long encode time was that it was set to "when not active - idle time only". Should've picked up on that myself because I did notice that it worked faster when I was "looking" at it and seemed to slow down when I walked away from my comp. Thanks for clarifying that.....I'm kind of a dummy. I set it for high when idle and normal when busy....should speed things up.
I think I'll stick with your original suggestions on the VBR/CBR setting for the quality aspect and now that I've set the priority to high when idle and go from there. Thanks for all your help.

[ZippyP.]

... you could try setting it to Motion Estimate Search (fast).

That's the only setting I use, never noticed any quality drop. Your mileage may vary though.

[mats.hogberg]

RE multiplexing settings for VCD:
Always use Video-CD non standard.
There's no bad side effect compared to Video-CD, and allows you to make small tweaks as long as your player doesn't choke.
Do not multiplex as System stream if you're going to author as VCD, as this kind of mpeg has to be padded, thus increasing in size, and will probably not play well anyway.

/Mats

[jam99]

Thanks all!!

I just encoded a movie that is 1hr 45min long and it only took 9 hours this time.....must've been that priority setting.....and it fit perfectly onto one disc and it looks good as well.

Again, thanks all.

[ZippyP.]

[jimmalenko]

I just encoded a movie that is 1hr 45min long and it only took 9 hours this time.....must've been that priority setting.....and it fit perfectly onto one disc and it looks good as well.

WOW !

9 hours is definitely much better than 85 hours, and is pretty good for a 105 minute 2-pass VBR on your computer IMO. As long as the quality is acceptable to you, it's all good !