Starting my workflow from scratch...

[philvideofilm]

Hello.

Since my post (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/406864-Looking-for-tips-to-improve-my-restoration-workflow), and subsequent replies I've been doing a lot of research and testing, and instead of finding answers, I find more questions. One thing that seems clear is the need to start my workflow from scratch.

Now the first part of it won't change, most if not all of my sources are dropped in Vegas where I edit, colour correct, crop, etc. Neat Video doesn't seem popular around here, and fair enough, but for me, the main advantages are 1) it's done at the same time as most of the work, and 2) The different output monitors which come with the plugins greatly improve precision and save time.

That being said I've experimented a bit with a few scripts and I must say the results are making me wonder.

Now when that work is done I frameserve out of Vegas as I deal mostly with original VOB files merged into a MPEG-2.

Here's where the scratching begins

1: 86x or 64x? I would assume the former

2: Hybrid seems the way to go, but can it be frameserve to? Also, on a side note, can the original and filtered output in the preview window be stacked as my second monitor is in portrait mode?

3: Speaking of rendering, should I continue to frameserve? Perhaps exporting to ProRes or Lagarith out of Vegas as is, and importing in Hybrid is a better way to go? Come to think, if I do that shouldn't I have to render progressive, remember the correct field order and decomb in Hybrid?

3: Avisynth+ or VapourSynth?

4: Render the final file from Hybrid or export it in Propres and leave the encoding for a different encoder, and if so, which one?


The main goal here is to take DVD sources, clean up the visuals as much as possible, deinterlace and upframe to 59.94/50 depending on the source. Upscale by a factor of 2 will also be done, and thanks to the replies in the other thread, I'm confident in the results from the scripts available, though my expectations are realistic, and I may forego the upscale if the results are not worth it.


Thanks for your input.

Phil

[johnmeyer]

A couple of hints about frameserving from Vegas. I've been doing it for almost 25 years, ever since Satish developed the first crude version. I haven't updated since Vegas 13 (the last release still developed by the Madison, WI team for Sony) so some things may have changed, but with that caveat, here are things you need to know.

1. Pay attention to what color model you export. Someone can correct me, but I'm pretty sure that Vegas' internal color model is RGB. Therefore, that is what I export and then do my color conversions in AVISynth for plugins that don't like RGB. I export using RGB24, but if you are using RGB32 internally to Vegas, then use that.

2. This is really important: pay attention to your project settings!!. The frameserver has no resolution or interlacing settings and instead looks to Vegas to "conform" everything on the timeline to the project properties. Put another way, when using the Satish frameserver, the project properties become your rendering options. As a simple example, if you have 4K video on the timeline, but have the project properties set to HD (1920x1080), all your video will be down-res'd to HD before being sent out to the frameserver.

3. When dealing with interlaced video it is REALLY easy to get the field order screwed up. The first thing I always do is frameserve into a a simple two-line script:

AssumeTFF()
Separatefields()

I serve that into VirtualDub and walk through one field at a time. If I get retrograde (back and forth) motion, then I know that the field order is BFF, not TFF. Always match your project properties to the video, and make sure ALL the fields in the project properties are correct.

As you will find, frameserving out of Vegas has a huge number of advantages compared to reading files directly into an AVISynth script. For one thing, you don't have to edit the script. All my scripts look for "fs.avi" in the root of my project drive. Also, as you are doing, you can do the things in Vegas which Vegas does well (like interactive color grading, editing, compositing, etc.) and let AVISynth only do the things that Vegas cannot do.

[philvideofilm]

Thank you John. I see we are both Vegas veterans, I've been using it for close to 20 years. If you have any insights on the workflow I described, please share it, I'd be much obliged

[johnmeyer]

Now when that work is done I frameserve out of Vegas as I deal mostly with original VOB files merged into a MPEG-2.

Vegas often has problems with VOB files, so it is good that you are converting to MPEG-2. I usually use either VideoRedo or Womble to combine, cut, and merge VOBs before putting the final MPEG-2 onto the Vegas timeline.

1: 86x or 64x? I would assume the former

I have stuck with x86 because it works. The choice depends mostly on what your plugins require. I don't think x64 AVISynth provides benefits substantial enough to warrant using it, just so you can say you are using the "latest and greatest."

2: Hybrid seems the way to go, but can it be frameserve to? Also, on a side note, can the original and filtered output in the preview window be stacked as my second monitor is in portrait mode?

I don't know what "hybrid" means. I don't work with two monitors so I don't know how to put preview on a separate monitor.

3: Speaking of rendering, should I continue to frameserve?

Since you are frameserving out of Vegas into an AVISynth script, you can either render from there, or you can render to a high quality intermediate or a lossless codec and then render with whatever program and codec you want. I like to keep things simple, so I usually just render from one of the codecs available in AVISynth.

3: Avisynth+ or VapourSynth?

AVISynth+ for me. VapourSynth doesn't seem to have as many plugins. There are lots of discussions about the benefits of each over at doom9.org.

[_Al_]

If you are looking to straight encode, or use some basic filters use voukoder (free vegas export plugin) instead of frame server (voukoder has some filters as well).

[_Al_]

also output ...

[Selur]

Hybrid seems the way to go, but can it be frameserve to?

No.

Also, on a side note, can the original and filtered output in the preview window be stacked as my second monitor is in portrait mode?

Yes, a stacked, side-by-side, interleaved and diff preview with original and filtered is possible.

[philvideofilm]

This is all gold, thanks fellas.

Selur: I fear I didn't explain myself well. When I set the filter view on the preview monitor shows the original and the filtered view side by side. Can these be stacked on top of another instead? I've looked through the options and couldn't it...

[Selur]

Under Misc->Preview:

(option names might sightly differ in my dev version compared to the last public release, but placing should be the same)
This is what you mean, right?