Nvidia 3D Vision vs 3D TV Technolgy?

[therock003]

I would just like to gather some information about the NVIDIA 3D vision technology since i cant figure things out with google searching. Basically how does it differ from 3D Technology used on TVs? They both seem to be using Active shutter glasses bundled with emitters so is Nvidia 3D an Active 3D Technology as well? I also hear that since you need a 120HZ Screen (60Hz per eye) that you get a 3:2 pulldown effect when watching 1080p24 films. Is there a way to fix this? What other basic information is useful to know for this technology?

[Cornucopia]

Nvidia 3D vision uses the power of a higher-end nVidia GPU to accellerate and enable the storage & passage of 3d images to the video output pipeline.

It can use 3d games, where it's GPU will directly decode/render the 3D object files into 2 images (for stereo3D).
It can also parse & render/mix already pre-rendered stereo3d files (in a few layout formats).

Both of these end up going out the video pipeline as Frame Sequential images at DOUBLE the bandwidth of normal 2D images.

That means, instead of a 2D video output at 60Hz, you would have a Stereo3D output which is ALTERNATING whole frames (not fields) of each of the 2 stereo3D views, at 120 Hz.
IOW, L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L = 1/4 sec 2d
and L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,L, R,L,R,L,R = 1/4 sec stereo3d.

The nVidia card also has a glasses sync transmitter output which drives the glasses directly (instead of having the TV do that).

3DTVs may or may not support nVidia 3dvision.

They use a number of technologies:

Older Mitsubishi & Samsung (Sanyo?) models use Checkerboard input (or HDMI 1.4a input with a converter box), with occasional SbS or T/B input converted, to checkerboard output (using Active LS glasses synced to the TV's output).

Newer models use either HDMI 1.4a Input (and/or nVidia 3dvision input) and/or Sbs or T/B input converted, to 120Hz (or 240Hz) Frame Sequential output (using Active LS glasses synced to the TV's output).

And Passive models use the same kinds of inputs as the previous, outputting to either 60 or 120 or 240 Hz, but in 3d mode it uses alternate line polarization (a filter panel is placed in front of the screen, but behind the glass).

This means that Line1 would be circularly polarized in the clockwise direction, and line 2 would be counter-clockwise, line 3 clockwise, line 4 counter-clockwise, etc.
This allows the use of passive/polarized glasses, similar or identical to the RealD polarized glasses used in theatres.

In the near future, enhanced active/passive models are supposed to be available that use a full-screen, actively-modifying Z-screen polarizer (just like those used in theatres) instead of micro-line polarizers, along with double framerate Frame Sequential output (120 Hz minimum), so that the use of the SAME RealD polarized glasses will give a Full HD per eye experience using passive glasses as is currently provided using active glasses.

So it comes down to:

If your 3dtv model SAYS it supports 120Hz Frame-sequential input (or if it specifically SAYS it supports nVidia 3Dvision), then you're OK. If it doesn't specifically say that it supports it, you'll have to use a different method to get the 3d to your TV.

Note that most, if not ALL, nVidia 3D vision cards support HDMI 1.4a, and one can ALWAYS send a Sbs or T/B presentation out through ANY video card & cabling system to ANY TV set. So if your 3dtv supports those 2 (and almost EVERY one does), then you'll still be able to see in 3D. It just won't be as fully HD as the native FrameSequential or native HDMI 1.4a (FramePacking) formats. You can look on your TV manufacturer's and on nVidia's websites to see which models work together.

BTW, If you DO have one of those current passive 3dtv screens, T/B is a very good match - giving it the highest quality it is capable of, with near universal output opportunities...

Scott

[therock003]

Thanx for the information. Actually i just got a laptop last week, with a 120Hz Screen, the emitter already installed and one of the latest nvidia cards. Just waiting for the glasses to arrive. I was just wondering though how it compares to commercial 3DTVs.

If a 3DTV exists as a whole unit, why should it support 3D Vision? I mean it can already do 3D in whatever format is necessary, it is of no use for someone to use a computer with 3D Vision with that TV...

[Cornucopia]

??You don't say what model laptop you got...I can't know how it compares.

3dvision + 3dtv allows for FullHD3D (2views x 1080 x >=24Fps) in MORE formats than without, and this is particularly true with gaming.

(Haven't checked) - possibly some of the lower end Passive 3dtv's wouldn't accept 120Fps input, and without that, the only way to get 60Fps games shown would be either FramePacking (which limits 60Fps to 720p) or Sbs (which limits the images to 960x1080) or T/B (which limits the images to 1920x540).

Scott

[therock003]

??You don't say what model laptop you got...I can't know how it compares.

3dvision + 3dtv allows for FullHD3D (2views x 1080 x >=24Fps) in MORE formats than without, and this is particularly true with gaming.

(Haven't checked) - possibly some of the lower end Passive 3dtv's wouldn't accept 120Fps input, and without that, the only way to get 60Fps games shown would be either FramePacking (which limits 60Fps to 720p) or Sbs (which limits the images to 960x1080) or T/B (which limits the images to 1920x540).

Scott

Oops right i forgot. It's a Dell XPS L702x but i don't think it matters since all laptops screens are more or less of the same quality. So Nvidia 3D vision should not be all that different between various laptop models, but it should when compared to TV Screens. The only difference may be on Sony VAIO laptops Serie F, where Sony released their own emitter+glasses for this technology.

3dvision + 3dtv allows for FullHD3D (2views x 1080 x >=24Fps) in MORE formats than without, and this is particularly true with gaming.

So 3D vision should be useful if using an older 3DTV that doesn't support 3D on FullHD you're saying? OK i didn't know that.

[Cornucopia]

I'll look at the manual for your laptop later to see how it compares, but I would disagree with a generalization like that "all laptops look the same" kind of business. Size, resolution, refresh, color purity, angle of view, contrast ratio - lots of differences.

What I was saying about 3Dvision + 3Dtv was that it works specifically better for gamers (with higher FPS possible), but does have some side benefits for HTPC users who don't JUST use BD3D.

If you're ONLY going to use BD3D, you don't necessarily need 3DVision as long as your PC is beefy enough, your V card is compliant and your HDMI output is 1.4 compliant (and you have BD3D playback software + hardware, of course).

Older 3DTV sets that don't support HDMI 1.4 probably also don't support 3Dvision - they're very limited, and IIWY I wouldn't get one of those unless you were getting a great bargain and were ok with the resolution compromise and had a plan for the end-to-end 3D display pathways...

Scott

[therock003]

OK, take your time. If and when you can, i would like to hear how both of them compare. I don't own a 3DTV, I'm just curious as to how much better the result would be if I had gotten one instead of getting the laptop with the 3D vision technology

[therock003]

An additional question i just thought of. If you have an HDTV (Which is not 3DTV), but has 100Hz or higher and both laptop and TV have HDMI1.4c can you use the TV to view 3D content with 3D Vision?

[Cornucopia]

"100Hz or higher" can mean a couple of things.

A. Accepts DIRECTLY an input signal of 100Fps or more.
B. Accepts DIRECTLY an input signal of 50Fps or more, and frame doubles/triples/quadruples to a "virtual" higher framerate.

Most HighFps HD sets are of the 2nd kind. Those that are of the 1st kind are usually able to be "3dvision certified". If they were this way, it would only work if:

1. The set had processing delays that exactly equal the framerate, or integer multiple (otherwise the sync with the LC shutterglasses would be off, ruining the 3d effect).
2. Didn't to any resize, only used "Just scan".
3. Didn't adversely affect the polarization expected in LC shutterglasses (all of them, being LIQUID CRYSTAL, are by nature polarizing devices)
4. Natively describes the acceptable double framerate in the HDMI edid, so the nVidia chip knows that it's OK to send.

At that point, why not just get a real 3dtv? Because then you know all those (and more) have been tested and verified to work.

Scott

[therock003]

My set is one of the 2nd kind. It accepts 50Hz and doubles it as a 100. Moreover it features HDMI1.3 and not 1.4a which is the minimum as you said.

I don't have the capacity to buy a 3DTV set, i just got the laptop, and paid 100 more to have the 3D Monitor. But since you said you can use TV sets with 3D Vision, and i already owned a TV with 100Hz i thought it wont hurt to ask if i could use this own instead. Sadly i cant...

Thank You though for your help. I appreciate it.