Why are 5.1 channels sometimes "misplaced"?

[takearushfan]

I've attached a brief 5.1 clip from the first Scream to show what I'm referring to.
I hope the answer to my question doesn't reveal that I'm a moron/missing something obvious.
It seems to me that if something is in plain view and practically nowhere near out of the viewing range, it shouldn't be hard-panned to the FL/FR, correct?
Please check out the clip I attached (around 20 seconds) and explain why the mix/mastering was done in such a manner.
Here's a summary of what doesn't make sense to me:

SEGMENT 1:
FLAME IGNITE - FL (WHY?)

SEGMENT 2:
PLATE DROP - FR (WHY?)

SEGMENT 3:
KNIFE - FR (WHY?)

SEGMENT 4:
LIGHT SWITCH ON - FR (WHY?)

SEGMENT 5:
LIGHT SWITCH OFF - FR (WHY?)

[takearushfan]

Did I do it again? That is, ask a dumb question? I'm really curious about this one.

[edDV]

That looks like a Foley production track edit (with dialog) crudely done. Normally the Foley track will be panned in the sound field to screen position not sent all to one speaker.

Was this someone's crude attempt to convert mono or stereo to 5.1?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foley_artist

[takearushfan]

Scream 1 is from '96 so I'd imagine it was "true" (?) 5.1 to begin with.

What's interesting is that of all the 5.1 "dissections" I've ever looked at, Scream 1-3 all use the same technique, which I rarely see used in other films:

The FL/FR contains nothing but the sound effects, triggered at what I posted as sometimes strange moments. They also contain a modest level of music.

The Center contains everything.

The LFE is hardly there, even at moments when you wish it was.

The Surrounds seem to hold nothing but the same music as the Fronts, but it sounds like they EQ the Surround music a bit differently than what's in the Fronts.

For the most part I'm happy with Scream's mix, but as I pointed out, there are some odd decisions at times.

[edDV]

Scream 1 is from '96 so I'd imagine it was "true" (?) 5.1 to begin with.

What's interesting is that of all the 5.1 "dissections" I've ever looked at, Scream 1-3 all use the same technique, which I rarely see used in other films:

The FL/FR contains nothing but the sound effects, triggered at what I posted as sometimes strange moments. They also contain a modest level of music.

The Center contains everything.

The LFE is hardly there, even at moments when you wish it was.

The Surrounds seem to hold nothing but the same music as the Fronts, but it sounds like they EQ the Surround music a bit differently than what's in the Fronts.

For the most part I'm happy with Scream's mix, but as I pointed out, there are some odd decisions at times.

Are you looking at the real DVD or somebodies download?

That is a very crude way to make a 5.1 mix.

[takearushfan]

Before I answer your question, here a second and last example, attached.

0:02.993 - LAMP TURNED ON (FL?!)

0:08.506 - LIGHT SWITCH (FL?!) < this one is almost "acceptable" but personally, I wouldn't do it as they did.

0:13.314 - CHAIN (FL?!) < this is perhaps the worst decision, IMHO; makes no sense to me!

This isn't a download. This is taken straight from my DVD. This is why I asked... I find some of the decisions very strange. You worded it very well, "crude"... a polite way of saying "half-*ssed".

[edDV]

Before I answer your question, here a second and last example, attached.

0:02.993 - LAMP TURNED ON (FL?!)

0:08.506 - LIGHT SWITCH (FL?!) < this one is almost "acceptable" but personally, I wouldn't do it as they did.

0:13.314 - CHAIN (FL?!) < this is perhaps the worst decision, IMHO; makes no sense to me!

This isn't a download. This is taken straight from my DVD. This is why I asked... I find some of the decisions very strange. You worded it very well, "crude"... a polite way of saying "half-*ssed".

The only explanation I can think of is they were working from a mono source track. You say all dialogue and music are in the center track. They are cutting out Foley effects to add a sense of left right sound field but doing nothing with the music or dialogue.

[takearushfan]

I don't understand. If it's from '96 wouldn't you think they'd be more than prepared to think in advance, knowing they'd create a 5.1?
Just to clarify, when I say all dialogue and music are in the Center, I mean that all elements are in the Center and then certain elements are also in the other channels. Ie., some sounds are triggered in the Fronts but without dialogue, music in the Surrounds but with nothing else, etc.

[edDV]

I don't understand. If it's from '96 wouldn't you think they'd be more than prepared to think in advance, knowing they'd create a 5.1?
Just to clarify, when I say all dialogue and music are in the Center, I mean that all elements are in the Center and then certain elements are also in the other channels. Ie., some sounds are triggered in the Fronts but without dialogue, music in the Surrounds but with nothing else, etc.

Maybe it was a low budget film edited mono. Or maybe only a mono track was saved.

'96 was early for DVD. Many were released with 2.0 AC3.

There is a new Scream (1996) Blu-Ray. Check the reviews, see what they say about audio?
http://www.amazon.com/NEW-Scream-Blu-ray/dp/B002Q9VP4I
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Scream-Blu-ray/20719/

Here is one from Amazon. He panned the video transfer though.

The DTS HD Master 5.1 audio track uses all surround speakers to full effect. Dialogue is crisp and you will be jumping out of your seat in all the right moments. The track is perfect for this classic horror movie and shines. The soundtrack blends in with all the films sounds perfectly.

From Blu-Ray.com

Scream's artful sound design capitalizes on every tried and true amped up effect in the horror film canon, and it's brilliantly delivered on this excellent lossless DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 mix. Sudden unexpected bursts of LFE slash in from the subwoofer and other low frequency sound effects, usually of the startling variety, penetrate the surround channels with appealing regularity. Ghostface's menacing voice sounds impressively gravelly and of course the screams, slashing and general clatter of all of the attack scenes are extremely well placed around the soundfield. Fidelity is spot on here, with brisk, penetrating highs and abundant, throbbing lows. Source cues are well mixed, and balance between dialogue and effects is masterful. This may be considered almost a parody of current day horror soundtracks, but it's amazingly good fun and this DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 reproduction plays it for all it's worth.

[takearushfan]

Okay. I have a copy of a BluRay rip. Just within the first 10 minutes I can already tell that the mix is richer and I'm hearing things that aren't in the DVD's mix.
I'd like to look at the 6 individual Mono files but both MP4Box and YAMB seem to result in the tracks clipping. Do you know an ideal way to extract the Wavs so they don't clip?
Thanks.

[edDV]

no

[takearushfan]

Okay. Upon further review, the BluRay version still has the effects triggered in the same stranger manner as I've already mentioned. When comparing the waveforms of the DVD and BluRay versions, they're actually pretty much the same. The BR version is at a higher bitrate and is significantly louder though. The "new" things I'm noticing in the BR mix are basically there in the DVD mix, but they're too quite for me to have noticed before.

[edDV]

Okay. Upon further review, the BluRay version still has the effects triggered in the same stranger manner as I've already mentioned. When comparing the waveforms of the DVD and BluRay versions, they're actually pretty much the same. The BR version is at a higher bitrate and is significantly louder though. The "new" things I'm noticing in the BR mix are basically there in the DVD mix, but they're too quite for me to have noticed before.

A strange way to make a 5.1 mix.

[takearushfan]

I agree, but parts 2 and 3 use the same technique. However, I'm not sure if the "triggering" decisions are as strange in 2 and 3.