Toshiba RD-XS35 producing a relatively high amount of bad/weird burns

[Bix]

In the past, when I burnt using a HDD-less DVD Recorder, I would get consistently good burns.

Now that I got a RD-XS35, which includes an HDD, I'm using the high speed dubbing option a lot. Using TY 8x Value Line DVD-Rs, I got a lot more bad burns (read errors, generally) than before and chalked it up to the discs being burnt at 8x when I usually burn them at 6x in my PC to make sure I get good, even burns. So I picked up some Verbatim 16X (Made in Taiwan) DVD-Rs (figuring that with the drive maxing out at 8x and the discs being rated for 16x, I'd get better burns similar to how I have more success burning 16x discs at 8x on my PC) and I'm getting similarly inconsistent burns. When I got a burn that seemed to be free of read errors, the Pioneer DVR-115D burner in my PC read it as having no data while my BTC OEMed I/O Magic drive detected it normally, as did my Phillips DVP-642 DVD player. Has anyone experienced a similar issue and have suggestions? Is it possible that the recorder needs a new burner?

Thanks!

EDIT: Called Toshiba, the rep (who actually knew what she was talking about) thought it was weird that I was using good discs and this was happening so she suggested that I may want to send it in to be looked at next week (since they won't have parts until then).

[orsetto]

There is an odd aspect to TY media in that it *appears* to burn poorly in some drives once the finalized discs are put into another drive and scanned for errors. This causes some people to be skittish of TYs, but as LordSmurf repeatedly warns, "prosumer" scanning results for home-recorded DVDs can be deceptive and misleading. Certain older-model recorders such as your Toshiba (as well as earlier Panasonics and Sonys) are known to create slightly off-spec burns that do not always scan well, another factor to consider (especially since your Verbatim scans are also off). Standalone DVD recorders in general fudge the spec somewhat, the "perfect" scans you got from your other non-HDD recorder are the exception rather than the rule. When played in modern hardware, the slightly odd discs burned by DVD/HDD recorders don't generally present problems even if, strictly speaking, they fail to scan nicely. Scanning can be a useful tool but you'd be surprised how many of us have perfectly playable discs that fail miserably when scanned. I don't put undue weight on scanning results unless they indicate one disc type or another is dramatically more compatible with a particular recorder. Beyond that basic info, misinterpretation looms.

If you feel the recorder is defective, certainly its wise to send it in while its still covered by warranty. But if it still produces odd scans after service, stop worrying as long as the discs play normally on a variety of computer drives, portable players and living room players (make the rounds of your friends with a test disc). TY 8x was current media at the time your Toshiba was manufactured and to this day uses the same formula, so your Toshiba almost certainly has an embedded write strategy for burning it. There isn't much good media left these days, stick to TY (or Verbatim as second choice).

[highvolumeJP]

I would be very careful about running an error scan on discs burnt on a DVD recorder - Don't compare a DVD Burner on your PC and a DVD recorder burn, that most of the time use proprietary drives and the initial firmware that never gets updated ! I use a LITEON 20A1P and 18A1P and have burnt TY DVD +R 16x @16x, and 8x, and value line 8x @ 8x and have had excellent results ! Discs burnt on a DVD recorder whether at low speed or highspeed dubbing will generally have a higher PI and PIF error rate, and your total count will be much higher, BUT they will usually remain within specs (<280 for individual PI and 4 or under for PIF) also you should be careful interpreting PI/PIF results - there are many other variables that determine burn quality that you can't see on a consumer drive. This is one reason why I always record on good quality DVD-RW, transfer it to my PC, then burn it on TY DVD+R 16x with booktype DVD-ROM, I get EXCELLENT results - PI average <10 PIF 1-2, and a very low total count. Also, you can run a TRANSFER speed test in CDSPEED, that is a very good test to measure your burn - look for a smooth curve - keep an eye for sharp spikes (drive slowing down) or CRC errors during scanning. Try to always use the same brand discs with same media code on your DVD recorder. Also, don't bother scanning eraseable media, it usually has considerably higher error rates!

[samijubal]

I don't see any mention of "scans" in the original post. I never get read errors from any of my Toshiba recorders and that's all I've used for years now. I don't load R discs into the PC but I do a lot of RW discs on the PC, they work flawlessly every time. You might try cleaning the burner lens. If you're getting read errors and the lens isn't dirty, I'd say it's a burner problem.

[Bix]

That was helpful, thanks. What is it that makes the discs appear to have physical flaws, though, if it's a matter of the DVD video spec? Data is data, and it should be able to be read/copied regardless of if it fits a certain video spec, right?

A big part of the problem is that I need to be able to rip/copy the discs, and at least 2 of my drives are finicky with them (the aforementioned Pioneer burner and the Lite-On OEMed Sony DVD-ROM drive in my duplicator, which would error out and stop copying). Normally these drives tend to read most of what's thrown at them to some degree, even if the BTC does a better job, while now the Pioneer drive in my PC sees it as a finished disc with no data and the Lite-On errors out in reading it. The fact that the only computer DVD drive reading the discs properly is my special drive bought specifically for reading iffy discs is not a good thing in this situation. Besides, now I'm just talking about the last couple discs when the BTC has had the same type of issues with previous discs from the recorder.

The reason that I may mention scans (knowing the mixed views about them here) done w/ CDSpeed's Scandisc as well is that in the past, they have tended to agree with the other results I would see. A disc that I had issues with as as far as playing or copying would scan as having errors, and if I scanned it first, the disc that scanned with errors would have issues playing or ripping.

I'll pick up a lens cleaner in the meantime. Are they generally about the same or is there a certain type recommended?

[highvolumeJP]

I don't see any mention of "scans" in the original post. I never get read errors from any of my Toshiba recorders and that's all I've used for years now. I don't load R discs into the PC but I do a lot of RW discs on the PC, they work flawlessly every time. You might try cleaning the burner lens. If you're getting read errors and the lens isn't dirty, I'd say it's a burner problem.

Actually it's neither - Eraseable DVDs have a high error rate - the burners used in DVD recorders are not the best - they read fine on a standalone because they are read at 1x. I found out that on my liteon and asus DVD burners they read at a higher speed, so sometiems the ECC fails - so what I did to solve the problem was get NERO drive speed and lowered my reading speed a bit - that helped.

[highvolumeJP]

That was helpful, thanks. What is it that makes the discs appear to have physical flaws, though, if it's a matter of the DVD video spec? Data is data, and it should be able to be read/copied regardless of if it fits a certain video spec, right?

There are many variables that determine media quality - by using very expensive professional drives that can read a dozen or more variables on disc jitter, reflectivity, etc, that you can't read on your consumer drive.

Every disc has flaws, no disc is perfect - even pressed DVDs have errors - but since the error correction used on DVD is robust you have nothing to worry about - stick to quality media and run a transfer test after your burn. Unfortunately, discs degrade in time, and while there are some visible flaws you can notice yourself (like spots on the dye) unfortunately there other more obscure flaws that can cause your disc to be unreadable after a certain time, that's tough luck.

A disc might appear like it has a good quality burn and low error rate, BUT will have poor reflectivity and have reading problems on some picky DVD players.

Remember to always finalize your discs before reading them on your computer. If you still can't read them or they appear empty - use another drive - that will happen sometimes on a DVD writer - Use a DVD-ROM (reader). Or, you can use a tool like ISOBUSTER !
I use genuine verbatim & taiyo yuden, avoid CRAP media !

[samijubal]

The best way to clean the laser is a q-tip wet with alcohol. If you don't want to open the recorder then a lens cleaner disc will have to do.

highvolume, I only use RWs to load into the PC and use the fastest burner I have to load them, an NEC 3550, it loads them in about 6 minutes or so and I've never had a problem with a Toshiba recorded RW disc, except way back when I first started using them and the discs had already been used in two other drives. I've loaded in hundreds of RWs without ever having a problem no matter how fast the read speed is. I always do a full erase of my RWs before reusing them though.

[Bix]

Last couple burns (on Verbatim 16x discs) have been perfect, and then I remembered something: For whatever reason, in the past, I have often had trouble with the first few and/or last disc in the spindle with Verbatims. I hadn't used any Verbatims in many months, so I forgot about it. I'm going to start a topic in the Media forum to see if anyone's experienced similar issues.

So maybe it was the burn speed issue as I initially suspected.

[orsetto]

The Verbatim 16x sold in retail stores is not what it once was. The mfr process and dye formula have been altered several times since February 2007, with the result older recorders such as the Toshiba XS series will often reject or badly burn certain spindles or parts of spindles. Depending on where you live and what superstores near you end up with which production runs, you'll either swear by Verbatim or swear *at* them. The supply of truly failsafe media for standalone recorders made before 2005 is drying up: about the only surefire compatible discs left are the TY 8x or Verbatim DataLife 8x which are only available from online dealers, not at your local stores. Almost all 16x now sold in stores has altered dye that is beyond the default burning strategy embedded in older recorders, most of which are not updateable via firmware downloads.

[highvolumeJP]

One should never use a DVD recorder burnt DVD as a reference to scan for for burn quality, ever. The drives used in DVD recorders have a firmware that is never upgraded with newer burn strategies, and no way to reset the learnt media area - so in time the drive will eventually cause burns with more errors - now while a DVD burnt on a DVD recorder has a much higher PI / PIF error rate than one burnt on a PC, these rates should be within specs and ECC should correct those - I personally use the Value Line 8x myself and have never had any problems, I get very low error rates when burnt on my PC - Make sure the discs are clean when being recorded - avoid finger prints and dust or scratches on the blank disc - if you get consistent reading errors then either your media is bad (BAD batch) or your recorder's drive is going bad - Try with different media to rule that out.

[samijubal]

You people and scans, the OP never said anything about scans. Read errors and scans are two completely different things. Read the original post.

[jman98]

Many here don't have a good opinion of the TY value line media. It's sold cheaply for a reason and not a good one. Either you care enough to buy good discs or you don't and if you don't (it would seem that Bix does not), then you accept things like this as part of your bargain with the devil to save money.

[Bix]

Why did you take a cheapshot at me?

I have great results with TY Value Line if I burn at 4x (in my DVD duplicator) or 6x (in my PC). Just because they weren't necessarily right for one specific use doesn't make them bad discs.

[KeepItSimple]

I stick with Taiyo Yuden Premium 8X or Verbatim 8X DataLifePlus and never have problems burning or playing back in any dvd recorder or computer.
The Toshiba RD-XS35 loves 'em and they aren't much more than the cheapies if you look online at places like supermediastore or amazon.com.