Four years later...a new PC

[rallynavvie]

It begins again 8)
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic233820.html

Time to build a new system. This one has lasted nearly 4 years and could probably get me by for at least another year but it's time to upgrade to something sick. Some parts have already been ordered but some of the core pieces are still pending as I work out some compatibility issues.

More information (and pictures) in the coming weeks

[pchan]

You must have decided between E8500 or Q9450. Those X48 motherboards are good.

Here is my friend's E8500, OCZ Ram 4 gig, Gigabyte GA-X48-DQ6 motherboard with Vendetta2 heatsink.

[redwudz]

rallynavvie, could you please change your title to reflect your subject as defined in our rules, maybe: 'Four years later...Time to build a new system.' or similar? Thanks.

BTW, four years in 'computer years' is a long time.

[rallynavvie]

You must have decided between E8500 or Q9450. Those X48 motherboards are good.

Nope

The only parts for it that I have on the way here are the case, storage drives (like I really needed more of them), and the Vista 32 Ultimate OS. I decided to splurge on a case even better than my current Antec P160 and get one of the new Lian Li V-1010s in black. I'm making the change to Vista since I'll have the system resources to spare and because MCE 2005 doesn't support HD programming within the software.

I'm carrying over my PC Power & Cooling 850W PSU and the 150GB WD Raptor for my boot volume but otherwise the current system will retire to secondary functions almost like a Media Center extender. With the GbE I have running between things I get pretty good streaming speeds. Now if only I could get faster internet here

[ahhaa]

just curious, but how have the jobs your computer is expected to do changed over those 4 years?
do you have any overall design goals?

for example, I require my gear to earn more money than it costs; and fit in the same or less space. :wink:

[SLK001]

...for example, I require my gear to earn more money than it costs; and fit in the same or less space.

So do I.

Just last night I admonished my present system, saying that it hasn't been pulling its own weight, and that this has been going on for far too long. I keep demanding that it get out and "earn" something, but it just sits there... I just don't understand why a talented computer system like it can't get out and find a good paying job.

I'm at my wit's end with the thing.

[TBoneit]

It begins again 8)
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic233820.html

Time to build a new system. This one has lasted nearly 4 years and could probably get me by for at least another year but it's time to upgrade to something sick. Some parts have already been ordered but some of the core pieces are still pending as I work out some compatibility issues.

More information (and pictures) in the coming weeks

Quad core.....

if 32 Bit Vista 4Gb Max. Possibly 3.5Gb will be recognized as happens with XP.

I think you'll like the Lian-Li case.

FWIW I looked at your post from 2004. We've changed a few of the older ATX 20 pin connectors on motherboards for that exact problem.

[rallynavvie]

The requirements of my current workstation used to be a lot greater when I was still doing DVD authoring/mastering. My previous 3 dual-socket machines more than paid for themselves doing that work. In fact the only investment was the 2460 since the first DH800 and the DN800 were paid for by profits. However I sold my rights to the respective companies I did work for 2 years ago when I took my current job. During the last couple years it's really just been my HTPC and gaming machine with some DCC work for my job.

The reason for the new PC is just to update to current architecture so I can survive another 4 years. I'm going to have to find a way to utilize the power of the new machine as it is going to be a bit overkill for what I'm using my workstation for now. On the other hand I'll be able to transcode recorded TV down to a smaller format pretty quickly. Though I wonder why I had to add 2TB more to my storage space for this new system alone. All told I now have nearly 10TB of total disk space across my machines

[SLK001]

All told I now have nearly 10TB of total disk space across my machines

Crap always expands to fill the available HD space!

[pchan]

[quote
Quad core.....

if 32 Bit Vista 4Gb Max. Possibly 3.5Gb will be recognized as happens with XP.

quote]

If use Vista 64 bit, can see all the 4gig ram. In 32 bit, part of the memory address is used for the graphic card.

[rallynavvie]

Got the case and the 2TB of HDDs for the storage array yesterday. Everything else except the board comes Monday. Board is on backorder but should be to me by late next week so I'll have next weekend to play.

This case is a work of art. The new Lian Li cases far surpass my old PC-60 in design and function. It will certainly be a quieter system than my current build as long as the stock Intel HSFs are quiet. I don't really want to bother with aftermarket cooling other than the memory.

I'll post up some pictures tomorrow of the new case. Probably won't see any more photos until the board arrives since it would be pretty boring seeing the rest of it just sitting in its boxes

[rallynavvie]

Here is all the stuff:



Unfortunately the standoffs weren't tall enough to mate properly with the IO panel so I have to run to Fry's tomorrow to pick up some different ones.



Once I get it up and running I'll post screenies from CPU-Z and list the system specs.

Is anyone familiar with migrating Media Center settings/prefs from MCE 2005 to Vista MCE? That's really my only hurdle when I image the new machine.

[aedipuss]

intel stock hsfs all bite. the only parts i would trash immediately. noisy and don't cool worth a damn.

get something with a copper base, heat pipes and an 80cm fan. they aren't for looks. you and your cpus will benefit.

[rallynavvie]

The problem with that is the new spec on Socket 771 doesn't allow much room like previous dual-socket solutions so there are few solutions out there that fit. I looked at the wind-tunnel Dynatrons but they won't clear the caps on one socket. There is a heatpipe one but the heatpipes stick out one side which means again they won't clear the caps. This is a pretty packed board.

I'm probably going to get the 2U copper heatsink that is a direct replacement for the aluminum one but I'll keep the fans. Those stock PWM fans are actually pretty quiet unless they're running full tilt and the 45nm chips don't put out as much heat as previous versions so I'll trust the board controlling them.

[TBoneit]

Why not just run the computer and see what the CPU temps run first?

I may be sounding cheap but does anyone really think that Intel is selling the Xeon processors with heat sink/fan assemblys that will cause problems? I've used the socket 775 Xeons in servers with the stock Intel cooling solutions. No Problem.

I just did a small gaming computer to customer specs this week. The Northbridge and Video cards ran hotter than the CPU. E8400, 2 x 8800GT w/1 Gig in SLI/ Asus Mobo. 2 x 2Gb memory. Those 45nm chips run nice and cool. The Stock HSF/Fan assembly was tiny compared to what you needed with the older Pentium D dual cores.

I'll agree that the those Pentium D Duals were heaters that Intel rushed out the door, a mistake IMHO.

[aedipuss]

"most" dual xeon boards will never come close to running 100% all cpus for more than a second in their life i'd bet. but this one, if used heavily for encoding video might. my estimate would be 80C + rather rapidly especially packed tightly together and surrounded by the north and south bridges(that might benefit from small fans).

it is a nice setup though

[redwudz]

Those PWM fans are nice for quiet. What I did with mine was set up the 'idle' speed from about 400RPM to about 700RPM to give them a better chance of responding to temperature rises. The full load temperature stayed about the same, but I got much better recovery when the temps dropped and it smoothed out any spikes in the CPU temps due to response lag. (It also dropped my idle temps about 3C.)

With PWM, you are probably aware you need to set the PWM option in BIOS in order to use it. Otherwise they will function as a regular thermally controlled fan. PWM has the advantage of precise RPM control of a fan, even allowing starting at a very low RPM or shutting off completely if not needed. In my setup, I had to disable the CPU fan failure buzzer as the PWM fan would start at boot, then shut off for a couple of seconds before resuming. I thought it was broke till I read the manual and watched it in operation.

That Lian Li case looks impressive. I use a Lian Li desktop case for my HTPC and it has to be the best built and designed case I have ever used.

[Soopafresh]

Good choice on the case. Nothing more convenient that a removable slide out tray for the motherboard. You do have to look out for vibrations and rattles, especially in the power supply and DVD areas. Rubber grommets will stop it.

[rallynavvie]

There are 5 PWM headers on this board and PWM fan functions in the BIOS 8)

I don't think the chips will approach anything near 80°C as the thermal spec is below that to begin with. I'm seeing other users complaining about 70°C on stock cooling so I should be able to keep it under that with this case/layout.

Turns out I didn't need taller standoffs to get the board to fit right so I have the core system minus the PSU installed. Video cards these days remind me of full-length PCI cards! I'll bring over the rest of the PCI cards and a burner from this system when I take it down later tonight. As you can see I've routed everything rather well and once the PSU cables are routed I'll tie everything down nice and neat. The case comes with rubber grommets for the HDDs and rubber gaskets/padding on the PSU mount already. I have some grommets for the optical drive that will carry over to this system.

[redwudz]

If Lian Li's thermal design lives up to their claims, should work very well. It will be interesting to see the case temps, along with the CPU temps when you get it completed.

With the PWM CPU fan and quiet case fans, my Vista PC is all but silent. And I still have sufficient cooling with case temps in the range of 24 - 28C and CPU temps at idle of 29C and load about 38C. This with a 95W Phenom CPU, OC'd to 2.5Ghz. Not the stock cooler, though. It runs about 5C warmer using it. This in a Antec NSK4480B case. My Lian Li desktop case runs a bit warmer due to the horizontal layout.

I do like the design with the PS on the bottom, hopefully your PS cables will all be long enough. Does that PS have modular cabling? I really like being able to remove unnecessary cables. I don't use floppy drives any more, so those extra cables are just in the way.

[stiltman]

I got better cooling with my Antec case when i closed off that side bottom vent

[Soopafresh]

Since your power supply section is on the bottom, double check that your power cables to your motherboard are long enough.

[redwudz]

stiltman, good point. I did plug off the side CPU cooler intake. I'll try the bottom intake also. The CPU intake disrupted the airflow and I was getting air out of it anyway. Adding a fan there would just blow more dust directly into the cooler, so not much use to me.

I just put my hand over the bottom side intake and it's blowing out air also. Time to plug it. I do have a front intake and rear exhaust fan.

[aedipuss]

i'm not convinced putting all those hot running items on the bottom is a good idea. unless there is a insulated double wall completely separating the compartments. afaik heated air still tends to rise doesn't it?

[stiltman]

stiltman, good point. I did plug off the side CPU cooler intake. I'll try the bottom intake also. The CPU intake disrupted the airflow and I was getting air out of it anyway. Adding a fan there would just blow more dust directly into the cooler, so not much use to me.

I just put my hand over the bottom side intake and it's blowing out air also. Time to plug it. I do have a front intake and rear exhaust fan.

I have a down blowing CPU cooler, and have the side duct about 2mm away from the fan.
I also have intake(80 or 90mm) and exhaust(120mm) fans
With all the testing I did about a month ago...(ie that cpu thread), I found pluging up that bottom side vent improved my temps by about ~5c at ide, and nothing under load

[redwudz]

i'm not convinced putting all those hot running items on the bottom is a good idea. unless there is a insulated double wall completely separating the compartments. afaik heated air still tends to rise doesn't it?

The warm air certainly does, and for me that's a good reason not to be putting all that hot case air through the PS instead of having a exhaust fan located where the PS normally is. My PS doesn't run hot anyway, but it has a 14CM intake fan right above my CPU, so it gets that heat. My exhaust fan located below it pushes out fairly cool air.

I think Lian Li separates the case to two thermal zones. Best is to probably have a PS intake on the outside of the case, but then you may get more dust. I've noticed that SATA drives generally run cooler than comparable PATA drives, so I'm more concerned with heat from the GPU, the NB/SB chips, the CPU and the RAM modules.

[rallynavvie]

Doesn't matter anyway, the case is grounding out the board somewhere and it won't power on with the motherboard tray properly seated. If I back out the motherboard tray a half inch it'll power on but for the life of me I can't see where it is grounding between there. Nothing on the case touches anything except the motherboard tray and there is contact between the case and motherboard tray the entire time I've been testing. This is a tough little gremlin.

[ntscuser]

i'm not convinced putting all those hot running items on the bottom is a good idea. unless there is a insulated double wall completely separating the compartments. afaik heated air still tends to rise doesn't it?

The warm air certainly does, and for me that's a good reason not to be putting all that hot case air through the PS instead of having a exhaust fan located where the PS normally is. My PS doesn't run hot anyway, but it has a 14CM intake fan right above my CPU, so it gets that heat. My exhaust fan located below it pushes out fairly cool air.

I think Lian Li separates the case to two thermal zones. Best is to probably have a PS intake on the outside of the case, but then you may get more dust. I've noticed that SATA drives generally run cooler than comparable PATA drives, so I'm more concerned with heat from the GPU, the NB/SB chips, the CPU and the RAM modules.

This article may interest or surprise: http://icrontic.com/articles/pc_airflow_heat_cooling_guide

[rallynavvie]

Found the gremlin and covered it in electrical tape after taking a break from it and coming back to it. I am now posting from my new workstation and my first Vista machine!

The PWM fans run at extremely low RPMs when idle so I can barely hear my system. No issues with airflow as I've run most of the cables up along the PCI card-saver pillar and tied them off there.

Below is a quick screenshot of CPU-Z and the Task Manager. I have to install the rest of my PCI cards and HDDs and then the big task of adding software before making an image but it seems to be working rather well. I can't wait until I turn on the Virtualization optimizations built into the board and CPUs to play with other OS within Vista. I also can't wait to test out this 9800GTX Black Edition video card on some games.

[redwudz]

Eight cores is impressive. That should be a nice system.