Web page design software/Need advise

[alegator]

Among the powerful web design software available like Dreamweaver, Microsoft Expression Web, etc , which one would you recommend? I'm looking for a powerful tool with fast learning curve.Thanks

[Soopafresh]

All of those programs take a long time to master - sometimes years. And just when you've figured it out, they upgrade the software!

I've found Namo Web Editor to be the easiest- http://www.namo.com/ . But I really dislike doing html editing.

[guns1inger]

I guess the first question would be : what sort of site are you looking to create ?

Will it be static pages, or dynamic ?

Will it be database driven ?

Will it need flash or CGI or Pearl or other scripting ?

Will it be self hosted, or maintained elsewhere ?

Are you working alone, or is this a team collaboration ?

[alegator]

All of those programs take a long time to master - sometimes years. And just when you've figured it out, they upgrade the software!

I've found Namo Web Editor to be the easiest- http://www.namo.com/ . But I really dislike doing html editing.

Years to learn?? Well, I guess I'm going back to college then!

I guess the first question would be : what sort of site are you looking to create ?

Will it be static pages, or dynamic ?

Will it be database driven ?

Will it need flash or CGI or Pearl or other scripting ?

Will it be self hosted, or maintained elsewhere ?

Are you working alone, or is this a team collaboration ?

A friend of mine asked me if I can build a website for him so he can describe his professional services, so this is what promted me to find out what software to learn/use. I plan to host it in a free server somewhere (geocities? or somewhere else...)

[guns1inger]

DreamWeaver is straight forward for the basics. The more complex stuff will take time no matter what you use. Expression has had very good reviews, but I have not had time to look at it yet.

For what you are doing, a competent freeware tool will be more than adequate. Although I would look for a better host than something like GeoCities. Anyone promoting professional services though a host like that would not get my money.

[alegator]

I'll give Dreamweaver a try. Regarding hosts, what is the most decent free server? A friend of mine is using this one:
http://www.freeservers.com/

[lordsmurf]

If you're really a friend, you'd tell him that he needs help from somebody else, that this is out of your league. Honesty is a good trait in friends. Sorry to be the ass here, but you don't have the skills and you should not take on this favor.

If you're a business, buy hosting. Free hosting makes you look like a hack.

I'm not here to be nice, I'm here to give accurate advice. Sometimes truth hurts.

[alegator]

If you're really a friend, you'd tell him that he needs help from somebody else, that this is out of your league. Honesty is a good trait in friends. Sorry to be the ass here, but you don't have the skills and you should not take on this favor.

If you're a business, buy hosting. Free hosting makes you look like a hack.

I'm not here to be nice, I'm here to give accurate advice. Sometimes truth hurts.

My friend is not in a rush to have a website, so I can take my time. Also, he does not need a sophisticated webpage, just a simple one will do.
Regarding hosting of course that paid ones look more serious and responsible, but for the market he's aiming at it does not make a difference, otherwise I wouldn't be asking for free hosting advise.
Finally, truth never hurts!

[Jester700]

It depends on what the specific needs are. I've done "business" sites for friends who've had very modest needs - basically "web business cards", with a couple of extras - maybe some short vid or audio downloads, and a PayPal button for a couple online purchases.

They're happy, they've had positive feedback, and they saved a lot of money on what is to them a small auxiliary to their business.

If someone wanted a sizeable web store, online database, etc, I wouldn't touch it. "Plain" pages only for me. But I think many businesses want this kind of small presence, and it isn't worth $1000 to them.

[Midzuki]

Finally, truth never hurts!

According to my personal experience, certain truths
really can hurt 1,000-year-old superegos and exceedingly-weak ids.

[lordsmurf]

So basically, it's not a real business, it's a "business". Real business, small or not, don't use crappy sites made from friends on free hosts. My mistake, I thought we were talking an aboveboard operation here (the local deli, for example), not a sideline "money maker" for your friend Joe Bob. Big difference.

Geocities and NVU and knock yourself out.

[Jester700]

It IS your mistake - or your mistaken assumptions. There are two issues here: sites made by pals, and free hosts. I have them on a paid-for, though modest, host. I agree with you about free hosting.

As for the sites, "crappy" is in the eye of the beholder, but we're not talking Amazon.com here. We're talking about one real business that generates primary income for one person (in one case, soon to be two). Not "Joe Bob", but a licensed private counselor who does very well for herself. I've also done a couple small sideline things, though still money makers. The point is, these are simple sites. If you want a half dozen pages with a clean layout and some pictures for clients you already have or as a business card with your information that others can direct people to, why would you spend the $700-1000 my pals have been quoted for this work? I had my pages up in a few hours as a favor, and she compared them with examples from a "pro" and decided it wasn't worth the considerable $$.

Sometimes a Chevy gets you from point A to point B as well as a BMW.

[Supreme2k]

If you want the most control and are on broadband, I would suggest using http://www.no-ip.com/ , especially if he has a spare (even crappy) pc lying around. I've used it for my business before I went "live", and it is perfect for small needs.

I second the motion that you should tell your friend to get help elsewhere. There's nothing worse than getting 2nd/3rd/4th hand information. Your friend can go to w3schools.com and learn the basics himself.

[SCDVD]

Web Easy Professional 7 does a good job. It's easy to use yet very flexible in what you can do with it. It is also WYSIWYG so you don't have to fiddle with the HTML (It will let you if you know how and want to)

http://vcom.avanquest.com/cat/prod.php?pid=2921

[stiltman]

So basically, it's not a real business, it's a "business". Real business, small or not, don't use crappy sites made from friends on free hosts. My mistake, I thought we were talking an aboveboard operation here (the local deli, for example), not a sideline "money maker" for your friend Joe Bob. Big difference.

Geocities and NVU and knock yourself out.

You mean like your site with the scripts that try to stop you from right clicking or copying text?

That makes a site seem real unprofessional to me

So I guess everyone has their own ideas on what's good or bad with websites

[GMaq]

Hi,
Despite LordSmurfs snide comments I use Kompozer (Unnofficial NVU update) to maintain my wife's website and it does everything I need, It's free cross-platform and WYSIWYG. If you have good graphic source materials it can look as professional as your imagination and Graphic talent allow for.

[lordsmurf]

Sometimes a Chevy gets you from point A to point B as well as a BMW.

Yeah, but we're not even talking a Chevy here -- all I see is a skateboard.

When I read something like "Among the powerful web design software available like Dreamweaver, Microsoft Expression Web, etc , which one would you recommend? I'm looking for a powerful tool with fast learning curve.Thanks" ............... this is the TRANSLATION: "I want to make make sites just like a professional does. Even though I have zero experience and zero education, please tell me what software to use and a 'for dummy' guide on how to use it, so I can make some money instead of a professional."

Some of us that actually work in the media field are tired of seeing every half-assed hack think he's a photographer, videographer, web designer, graphic artist, etc. The ONLY thing it does is give us headaches, as your shitty work is something we end up redoing later on (assuming the business did not tank, often due to a crappy presence online). It's much easier to work with a "virgin" client, who has not been hosed over and has not had his or her materials ruined (bad video work, bad photo work, awful design work, etc).

I can change my own oil, but I'm not whoring myself out as a mechanic. A bad one, at that.

People ask me DAILY to do things I cannot possibly do. Instead of going to a forum and asking a stupid question, I refer it to a qualified party, or I simply decline. I'd rather not do something that screw up something that is so important.

Sorry, this issue just hits close to home.

If you're truly interested in taking the time to learn graphics, design, hosting, etc -- then I sincerely wish you well. But it will take many months, it will cost money, and it will require patience and self honesty. You will need a good host, you will need to spend money on a good software suite. The free stuff will only take you so far.

FYI - the $700 quote for a site is a good price.

[Marvingj]

Coffee Cup is pretty good & cheap....

[alegator]

Sometimes a Chevy gets you from point A to point B as well as a BMW.

Yeah, but we're not even talking a Chevy here -- all I see is a skateboard.

When I read something like "Among the powerful web design software available like Dreamweaver, Microsoft Expression Web, etc , which one would you recommend? I'm looking for a powerful tool with fast learning curve.Thanks" ............... this is the TRANSLATION: "I want to make make sites just like a professional does. Even though I have zero experience and zero education, please tell me what software to use and a 'for dummy' guide on how to use it, so I can make some money instead of a professional."

Some of us that actually work in the media field are tired of seeing every half-assed hack think he's a photographer, videographer, web designer, graphic artist, etc. The ONLY thing it does is give us headaches, as your shitty work is something we end up redoing later on (assuming the business did not tank, often due to a crappy presence online). It's much easier to work with a "virgin" client, who has not been hosed over and has not had his or her materials ruined (bad video work, bad photo work, awful design work, etc).

I can change my own oil, but I'm not whoring myself out as a mechanic. A bad one, at that.

People ask me DAILY to do things I cannot possibly do. Instead of going to a forum and asking a stupid question, I refer it to a qualified party, or I simply decline. I'd rather not do something that screw up something that is so important.

Sorry, this issue just hits close to home.

If you're truly interested in taking the time to learn graphics, design, hosting, etc -- then I sincerely wish you well. But it will take many months, it will cost money, and it will require patience and self honesty. You will need a good host, you will need to spend money on a good software suite. The free stuff will only take you so far.

FYI - the $700 quote for a site is a good price.

Dear lordsmurf, relax and listen before stating false assumptions. My friend is my closest friend, he does not have a penny and has no knowledge, interest or willingness to learn anything that is computer related (he has no technical background, sort of chinese to him). That's why he asked me this favor. He will start offering some services to have an additional income. An online presence for him is not required, it's just something I suggested to him as an addon in his "business" card. In this respect a paid host is not needed for him at this stage, any free server will do. Also, all the website needs to show is his name, contact info and a description of his services. In this respect all that is needed is elementary HTML, and not even that, even a simple online website wizard will suffice. So you may ask yourself why did I mention powerful tools like Dreamweaver, etc? For me computers (hardware/software), video, and photography are hobbies, they are non related to my profession. I'm also ambitious when it comes to knowledge and eager to learn. So I always like to be a step ahead and why not learn maybe 10% of Dreamweaver and find out how to do cool stuff, it's a personal satisfaction for me, sort of like a challenge. And if you read again my post, I was asking only which of those tools was worth learning, I never asked anyone for a "dummy guide" on how to use it. Luckily I have the capability of self learning anything technical/scientific if I put the time into it. Regarding my education, well...do I have to answer that? I don't like exposing my privacy in forums, so if you are a little bit smart you can infer that for yourself. Finally I'm not planning on charging not even $1 for doing this, as I said this is a favour I'm doing and my profession is non related to this. If I ever had in mind making money in building websites I would prepare myself in CS in a top rated school to be competent professionally,i.e., have the knowledge to be able to build sites as Amazon.com,etc whatever time the learning would demand, and to that end the least I would do is seek advise in internet forums. But again, I don't make a living on this and I'm not planning on that either. So as you can see all the crap you posted is absolutely unrelated to my case (sorry for "crap", I'm just mimicking you so you understand) , you again made the mistake of judging based on false assumptions.
To the rest of the members who posted thanks for your suggestions and please pardon lordsmurf for his snide comments, he probably is undergoing a lot of stress lately with his life and he finds comfort in trash talk.
I always find nice people in this forum. Regards and peace to all!

[Jester700]

So basically, it's not a real business, it's a "business". Real business, small or not, don't use crappy sites made from friends on free hosts. My mistake, I thought we were talking an aboveboard operation here (the local deli, for example), not a sideline "money maker" for your friend Joe Bob. Big difference.

Geocities and NVU and knock yourself out.

You mean like your site with the scripts that try to stop you from right clicking or copying text?

That makes a site seem real unprofessional to me

So I guess everyone has their own ideas on what's good or bad with websites

AND graphic design, AND photography, AND audio recording, etc. - anything aesthetic. Yes, there are actual MISTAKES that are made, even in a small 5 page "text with pics" site. But sometimes much of what you pay for with "pros" is just their "artistic vision" - which is often not worth the price. I've seen expensive business cards and posters by "graphic designers" for which I wouldn't have paid a cent - and I wasn't alone in this thinking. Would other "pros" have seen the difference? Possibly - but that's not the bulk of the clientèle.

I know this frustrates those who make their living at it, but it's NOT akin to being a mechanic - nobody risks death if my background color is not web standard or my jpg has artifacts or is missing a tag. If I felt my work would negatively impact my pal's business I would tell her so (and did mention a couple of ways this might be possible, though IMO unlikely). Sorry - that's reality. Just as pro recording studios dropped like flies as affordable recording gear flooded the market and bands started "rolling their own" in the basement, so it is for many other industries.

[lordsmurf]

I suggest using www.atspace.com as the free host -- no ads.
It's slow, you get pure HTML only (no scripts).
It's subdomains, so "http://businessname.atspace.com"

E-mail addresses published online will be harvested for spam.
His e-mail spam will increase 100-fold.

Free templates exist out there. Find one.
Either copy it, or try to salvage it, using freeware like NVU or others.

In all honesty, he may not need a website. It's unlikely to draw pure web traffic. It would just be more information for somebody who grabbed a business card. So be sure that kind of information is there -- a virtual business card is not a good use of the space. They already have that information.

So, good luck.

You might even consider a Wordpress.com blog, and use that as a "site" of sorts. That's easy too.

[Supreme2k]

If it's simply to get his name "out there", why not simply sign up for monster.com or any other job market site? Rather than having to give a specific address to clients (which he can also do), clients can find him. Hell, he may get an actual with-benefits job out of it.

[zoobie]

I'd rather have the truth than some glossed over made-up answer.

I remember logging on back in 2000 to a SEO site where these idiots were actually charging for SEO but there was one problem...they didn't know squat about it and came into the forum to ask how it's done. Keep in mind they were charging clients to do something they had no idea how to do themselves. Some people in the forum realized this and were absolutely OUTRAGED.

I found www.codingforums.com years ago. At first I said there's no way I could learn a language...but before I knew it, I had learned 4. Here, you will learn what makes a good, quick-loading site.

Another easy way to remedy this would be Geocities online Sitebuilder, a drag and drop built-in editor. Agreed, Geocities isn't for biz but it's a start. The other recommendations are fine, too. I think I used Coolpage when I started but I think Dreamweaver still satisfies the masses. Most have free trials...

I'm building another site as we speak...handcoded of course...tableless with fluid display at any resolution...