question about "DVDSubEdit" putting out non-standard subtitle fil

[jimdagys]

I authored a DVD and when I played it on my hard drive, the subtitles were slightly below the bottom of the screen where they couldn't be seen. There were 2 suggested ways to solve this problem. One was use DVDSubEdit and open the VOB files and raise the subtitles vertically using that software. I first chose this way because I could easily see how much to raise the subtitles and the final result could be obtained in about 10 minutes using that software. I played the resulting file on Power DVD and the result was just perfect. Then I tried to play the file on Media Player Classic and the subtitles could not be seen. The subtitle indicator was illuminated, and could be turned on and off, but I could not see any subtitles at all. In my experience, for a DVD with standard subtitles, Media Player Classic will display the subtitles when played on the hard drive.
So then I went to the next option. I used Subtitle Creator and made another sup file and raised vertically the subtitles. Unfortunately with Subtitle Creator it's kind of a guessing game on how much to raise the subtitles because the window in the software shows the subtitles to be much higher vertically than they will be in the final result. When I opened the srt file for conversion, the default vertical position was 470. I change that number to 390, got the sup file and used Muxman to re-author the file to a DVD. The result had the subtitle position about right, and Media Player Classic as well as Power DVD displayed the subtitles just fine. So I think there is something wrong with DVDSubEdit because the files made from that software did not display subtitles in Media Player Classic.
Does anybody know why DVDSubEdit doesn't work correctly? Is it possible when I used DVDSubEdit
I should have raised the subtitles all in one go, instead of processing each VOB individually?

[manono]

How do you know it's DVDSubEdit not working correctly? Why can't it be Media Player Classic not working correctly? Isn't the aim to raise them so they'll play properly on your TV set from your standalone DVD player? Have you tried that yet? I've raised subs before and never had a problem with the new height not being honored by the standalone.

And in your other thread I explained a method for making the subs so you can set the height, and also test and see the final height, before actually making the final subs. Why not try that?

[träskmannen]

I have never had any problems with the output from DVDSubEdit either. Raising the subtitles in one go instead of in the separate VOBs would have been easier but it shouldn't have any influence like this.

Then I tried to play the file on Media Player Classic and the subtitles could not be seen. The subtitle indicator was illuminated, and could be turned on and off, but I could not see any subtitles at all

What do you mean - what subtitle indicator? Post a screenshot, that might tell us more.

[jimdagys]

To answer your questions, I haven't tried your way (MaestroSBT) to process subtitles because I am trying to get familiar with this one way, and learn how to use this way correctly, before I try another way. That is correct in saying the burned DVD playing on a standalone DVD player is the final test if the DVD is working correctly or not. So later today I will burn the DVD and see what the result is. However, I would like to come to the bottom of this discrepancy between DVDSubEdit and Media Player Classic. I decided to do another experiment. (By the way, when I say "subtitle indicator" in Media Player Classic, I mean that it is possible to enable subtitles, in other words, the option is not greyed out. See screenshot.) This time I opened all the vobs in DVDSubEdit and moved just the first subtitle up vertically to just line up with some video. I save the change and looked at the result in Media Player Classic, and that one subtitle had completely disappeared. (Before the change, the subtitle was displayed just fine.) Boy, I am glad I did not move all the subtitles. I then looked at the result in Power DVD and the subtitle was displayed, and moved up vertically, no problem. When I look at the vob again in DVDSubEdit, the subtitle is there and moved up. DVDSubEdit is definitely changing something in a weird way so that Media Player Classic doesn't display the subtitles. Something isn't right and I would sure like to know what it is. I will burn the DVD and then see if that first subtitle is displayed on the TV. See screen shot of the first subtitle that I moved up just to the video. The one that just disappeared.

[jimdagys]

Ok, I burned a DVD and played it on a standalone and the first subtitle (the one that I raised vertically with DVDSubEdit) was displayed perfectly. I then played the disk in the computer with Media Player Classic and the first subtitle was NOT displayed. (All other subtitles displayed fine).
There is something really strange going on here. Why doesn't Media Player Classic display any subtitles that have been raised with DVDSubEdit? Which software is at fault? It doesn't matter whether I play the movie from the hard drive. or I play the movie from the disk, Media Player Classic will not display subtitles that have been raised with DVDSubEdit.
I would like to try another software that will raise the subtitles directly in the vob (without muxing). Can someone please give me the name of a simple easy to use software that can raise the subtitles?

[träskmannen]

If it plays OK on a standalone you can safely assume that the output from DVDSubEdit is OK and that MPC for some reason doesn't show what you want.

By the way: what method do you use to play the files in MPC? Do you open a single VOB or do you open the complete VIDEO_TS-folder?

[jimdagys]

I am using Media Player Classic and opening the Video_TS.IFO file. I've played dozens and dozens of movies from the hard drive and from the DVD and never had a problem displaying subtitles with Media Player Classic. When subtitles are present in the movie, Media Player Classic will have the subtitle option illuminated (see screenshot in this thread). I am still looking for another easy software to raise subtitles in the VOB. I find it hard to believe that Media Player Classic is at fault. Also, if somebody has a movie with subtitles on their hard drive, could you please raise the subtitles with DVDSubEdit and let me know if you can see the subtitles when playing with Media Player Classic? Maybe I have some kind of strange codec problem. I don't know what other software and codecs are being used in the background automatically.

[jimdagys]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!! I thought maybe I need a different version of DVDSubEdit. I am using version 1.38. I went to the website for DVDSubEdit) (http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/) and clicked to download version 1.36., However, what I got was version 1.34. (Don't know why.) So I used this version 1.34 to move one subtitle vertically up. I played the result in Media Player Classic and the subtitle displayed perfectly (and moved up.) Then I used DVDSubEdit to change all the subtitles in the movie and played the result with Media Player Classic with perfect subtitles moved up.
I am curious if any experts on this site can explain why version 1.38 doesn't work with Media Player Classic.

[träskmannen]

I tried to repeat your case by making a sub in SubtitleCreator, deliberately placing it too low, muxing with MuxMan, rasing the subs with DVDSubEdit (1.38 ) and watching the whole thing with MPC(6.4.9.0).

Everything worked the way it is supposed to. I don't know what the problem is at your side but I am unable to repeat it.

[jimdagys]

NEW INFORMATION I found that when using DVDSubEdit (1.38 ) if you raise the subtitle by 1 or 21 (odd amount) units, the subtitle will disappear. If you raise by 2 or 20 (even amount) units, the subtitle will be displayed.
I also am using Media Player Classic 6.4.9.0. Maybe this will forever remain a mystery. However, such situation I describe on my computer is very consistent. By the way, if you want to make a test, all you need to do is raise one subtitle in the VOB with DVDSubEdit version 1.38 and watch with Media Player Classic.
More new information I found that subtitles that were raised and disappeared will be displayed again if you raise them one unit. That is really useful information if someone lost all their subtitles.
Bottom line: Raise your subtitles an even amount, but if you already raised them an odd amount and lost them, just raise them by one unit and they will reappear. Or use Power DVD instead of Media Player Classic. Case closed.

[träskmannen]

I raised the subtitles using the slider without looking at how much they were raised. It was a 50% chance...well done finding that out. It seems that this has caused problems earlier, see the changelog for DVDSubEdit.

[jeanl]

Yes, indeed, there seems to be a problem, in some players (but I never saw that happening in mpc) with moving subtitles up by odd numbers of pixels... I don't really know why that poses a problem, but it's a fact that some players don't like it and I can't do much about it (unless I'm able to see it first hand and investigate).
There is an option you can add in your DVDSubEdit.ini file (located in the application data directory),
ForceEvenMoves=1
which when set to 1 will force even vertical moves only.
Until I'm able to see the problem myself and investigate it, that's all I can do...
jeanl