Removing motion jaggedness

[uniks]

I can't explain this problem.
I encoded 1.2GB .avi file with Cinema Craft Encoder SP2, using 8-pass VBR with 5.5MB bitrate, and when I put the edited and finished DVD into DVD player to watch on TV, every time there is a motion with objects/characters squarey/liney artifacts appears on them, but when there is slight/none motion the picture is almost perfect.

I encoded at least 20 avi movies with these settings and none of them had this problem.

Is there some way to remove this problem by modifying Cinema Craft Encoder SP2 settings?

[Richard_G]

It could be that you've encoded interlaced footage with the wrong field order. Try changing the field order.

[uniks]

You mean this-

4.10 Output top field first stream
Specify the field order of output stream. If it is selected, an output
stream is top field first. If not, an output is bottom field first. This
setting works on MPEG-2 output.
It is important to set correct field order, because incorrect field
order causes stuttered motion. To set field order correctly, you have
to care about Offset line setting.

• If the field order is same between the source and the output,
Offset line should be 0 or even number.

• If the field order is different between the source and the output,
Offset line should be 1 or odd number.

So I should always select Offset line 0 (how do I know what is correct-reversed or not reversed?)

Could you please post a screenshot of the settings you have?

[guns1inger]

What was your source ?

DV is Bottom Field First. Most analogue capture cards are Top Field First. Mpeg can be either.

You can change the field order after the fact using ReStream.

FWIW, I always set the offset to 0 in CCE when encoding, whether the source is DV avi or uncompressed created by avisynth, and never have field order problems.

[uniks]

OK then, that should cover it. Thanks.

[uniks]

There is the same problem, I thought that always putting field order to 0 in CCESP2 would solve the problem, and in most cases it did, but in other cases, every time there is a fast motion that part of the screen transforms into horizontal lines.
Is there anything I could do?

The avi file in question that gives me such headache is:

Format : AVI
Info : Audio Video Interleave
Family : RIFF
File size : 1.27 GiB
PlayTime : 1h 49mn
Bit rate : 1658 Kbps
Writing application : FairUse Wizard - http://fairusewizard.com
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Video #0
Codec : XviD
Family : MPEG-4
Info : XviD project
Codec settings : BVOP / Packed Bitstream
PlayTime : 1h 49mn
Bit rate : 1517 Kbps
Width : 640
Height : 464
Aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 29.97 fps
Resolution : 8
Chroma : 4:2:0
Interlacement : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.170
Writing library : XviD0041

Audio #0
Codec : MPEG-1 Audio layer 3
Family : MPEG-1
Info : MPEG-1 or 2 layer 3
Codec profile : Joint stereo
PlayTime : 1h 51mn
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Bit rate mode : CBR
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48 KHz
Resolution : 16
Writing library : LAME3.97b

I also have the full dvd version that was encoded with CCE SP2(field order 0, VBR 9), and finished with Ulead DVD Workshop 2.

[cd090580]

Are the artifacts presents in your avi/xvid file ?????

[uniks]

Of course not, only after the encoding with CCE SP2 in form of blurred horizontal lines in the part of the screen where fast motion scenes occur.

[Richard_G]

Video #0
Codec : XviD
Family : MPEG-4
Info : XviD project
Codec settings : BVOP / Packed Bitstream
PlayTime : 1h 49mn
Bit rate : 1517 Kbps
Width : 640
Height : 464
Aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 29.97 fps
Resolution : 8
Chroma : 4:2:0
Interlacement : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.170
Writing library : XviD0041

There is your problem, your source file is progressive and not interlaced. By encoding it as interlaced, you are introducing the problem.

However, if you have the original DVD version, why are you using a highly compressed Xvid as your source and not just ripping the original? By going DVD>Xvid>DVD you are degrading the quality enormously.

[manono]

There is your problem, your source file is progressive and not interlaced. By encoding it as interlaced, you are introducing the problem.

Hardly. You, as a PAL person, should know that the vast majority of movies on PAL DVD come from progressive sources but are encoded as interlaced without having interlacing artifacts. He has a 29.97fps progressive source AVI which he claims doesn't have the artifacts, and encoding it as interlaced won't, by itself, make it appear to have interlacing artifacts. Almost all true progressive 29.97fps material for NTSC DVD is also encoded as interlaced. I may have missed it, but does he ever actually say that he encoded it as interlaced?

If he would upload small samples of both the source and the CCE output that shows the problem, we may (or may not) be able to get to the bottom of it.

I am with you, though, in wondering what he's doing messing with an AVI when he has the DVD. And I'm also wondering since this is a movie (?), why the AVI is 29.97fps in the first place.

[uniks]

So you are saying that I should enable Deinterlacing within preprocess in CCE encoder settings?
Anything else I should set in advanced options, like offset line to 1 or 0?

I gave the info on the video, I used CCE, VBR-9 passes, area setting-->offset line-0, interpolation method-lanczos and frame rate-25. everything else was by default.

And with these settings I got those blurred horizontal lines when fast motion occurs in a particular part of the screen.

What I need from you is to tell me what settings to change so I could avoid these artefacts.
Screenshots of the CCE settings would be very nice.

[manono]

So you are saying that I should enable Deinterlacing within preprocess in CCE encoder settings?

No, I didn't say that at all. If the source is progressive and doesn't have the artifacts, then why would you want to deinterlace it? What I said was:

If he would upload small samples of both the source and the CCE output that shows the problem, we may (or may not) be able to get to the bottom of it.

Without something to look at, it's nearly impossible to learn what happened. We just need 10 seconds or so of the source and the output, both showing motion. Static scenes don't help much.

By the way, this is the first time that you've said you encoded for 25fps. Why not make an NTSC DVD out of it, since your player can play NTSC, can't it? Going from 29.97fps to 25 fps is very difficult, even if you know what you're doing, which you don't. And no encoder will do it correctly by itself.

[Alex_ander]

25fps for output in CCE with 29.97fps input can't be a good idea.
0 or 1 does only matter for interlaced input (0 is used if output field order is the same as it is in input interlaced video, otherwise 1). Try to find out by analysing still frames whether your video is interlaced. In case it is interlaced even resizing in CCE can give the effects you describe.

[theewizard]

i want to know why he is doing 8 pass encoding,

maybe i'm off base, but i think its possible each pass is compounding the problem

I encoded 1.2GB .avi file with Cinema Craft Encoder SP2, using 8-pass VBR

[uniks]

I'll get back to you when I try it without converting to 25 fps.
btw I always use 10 passes, and never had a problem.

[Abond]

I always use 2 passes, and also never had a problem. And I save time. So, seems you don't know what to do with your time, isn't it?

[theewizard]

I think its safe to say, IF the feild order is wrong and you create a problem, the more passes you make the more the problem is going to be compounded