Nero Bashing

[SCDVD]

First, let me say that I don't have a pony in the Nero race. I am neither a Nero booster nor a Nero basher. I simply see it as a software suite with an assortment of tools in it. I have a toolbox in my garage with quite a variety of tools in it. I have hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches, saws and a whole bunch of other tools. Among the wrenches that I have, I have crescent wrenches, box-end and open-end wrenches, and socket wrenches. One nice thing about my crescent wrenches is that they are handy to use because they are easily adjusted to fit a simple task at hand. It would really irritate me if some blow-hard / self proclaimed "expert" tried to tell me exactly when and how to use the tools that I have. I imagine out there in "tool expert land" there are those who would have me throw away my crescent wrenches because they will damage a nut or yudda, bladda, yak. But the fact is; there are times that a crescent wrench is very useful especially on simple jobs. And I am the one that will decide that, not some joker down the street looking for a place to be an "expert" today!

Using my tool analogy, Nero is a great crescent wrench. It is ONE of a wide variety of tools that I use. It is not broke, it is not "bad", it is not junk; it's just a tool. But since Nero is also the market leader, they are a big target. I have noticed there are two general categories of blow-hard Nero critics. One is the elitist. The elitist thinks that if anyone uses anything less that Sony Vegas 7 or Adobe Premiere you are using junk. The other is more often found on this forum - the avid, and in some cases rabid, hacker. They truly enjoy the nuts and bolts of the whole video making process. In a way, I am in that category. This is a hobby that I really enjoy. I like trying new tools and new ways to edit and author DVDs. Am I an expert? No way! Do I know more this year than last? Yes. Do I have all the answers? Not by a long shot. There are many people on this forum that I admire and appreciate their very helpful comments and advice. Thankfully these are in the majority. But, pardon my language; there are a few pricks that irritate the shit out of me. They just love to butt into a thread and blast others with their vast facade of "knowledge". There is no need to name names. Nothing good would come from that. But for those who spend much time on this forum, you know what I am talking about. For example, I posted a question yesterday about DL DVD+R versus DL DVD-R. I was curious. This forum provides a great opportunity to learn. There were several people with very informative answers to my question. But one joker just had to seize the "opportunity" to criticize me for ever using Nero. The issue with DL DVD-R is problems with layer breaks. So I asked in a general way if one were to use Nero, DVD Shrink or DVD Decrypter, would it fail to burn or would it just create a problematic disc with playing problems. I was trying to understand the seriousness of the layer break problem, not seek “advice” on burning software. But Mr. "Expert" just had to use my question to attach Nero.

This much I do know. A clean install of Nero on an unhacked system is a good basic tool. But problems can arise when someone has a lot of other video related tools, codecs etc, installed as well. The most classic example is: If you install a Roxio product on a system with Nero on it you WILL have problems with Nero. Then you too can author posts about "junk Nero". But if you have some lesser known video related software on your system, let’s just call them A, B, C, D and E, you may also encounter problems - and not just with Nero. D might interfere with C and E might interfere with B etc. But since Nero is the most visible name, it often gets the brunt of criticism. The taller you stand, the bigger a target you are.

System interaction problems with video related software are quite common. I installed Magix Movie Edit Pro 11 a few months ago on one of my computers at home. Subsequent to that, I noticed that auto play stopped working. At first I didn't associate it with the installation of Movie Edit Pro. I had a devil of a time fixing it. I wound up having to go into the registry and change a value in order to get auto play to work again. But then I wondered what made this happen. So on a hunch, I installed Movie Edit Pro on my other computer and guess what? Auto play quit on that computer as well! I guess to some extent one has to just chalk it up to that's the way it goes - just roll with it and deal with it. This problem didn’t make Movie Edit Pro “junk”. It shouldn’t have happened but these sorts of interactions and problems are going to happen from time to time. When the end of the day comes, there is no need to conclude that something is “junk”.

I am not a Nero towel boy. I know of no video related task that Nero does best. But it sure is a useful tool in my toolbox.

[VERVE]

Hi,

Just wanted you to know that someone read your long message.

I think ur taking it too seriously. i will not butt in on the nero issue but personally i use it to do data cd and dvd but nothing else, as I trust decrypter more than nero. but adobe encore is my reliable old friend.

In any case, sorry to hear u categorizing premiere and avid users that way. not fair for many. but oh well...

Cheers,
VERVE

[bigjimmpls]

SCDVD,

I also read your post and I can't agree with you more. I also use nero. It has had it ups and downs for me but I have almost always used it for my dvd processes. I have used a few others when I couldnt get it to work for some reason. But it is a pretty steady program. I read a lot on this board and have learned a lot and I can never thank the people that have helped me enough. There is a lot of knowledge on this board and it is greatly appreciated. But I also tend to just read and not post as there is a lot of bashing here. There are a lot of of newbies that come here for help. And I have seen some pretty crude responses. They dont need that. For gods sake help them and not criticize them. We were all new at this once. And maybe there questions are stupid, but if you dont want to help them and just criticize them dont respond. There is enough of that in the world. We dont need it here. Lets have fun and learn as we go along. We all need help sometimes.

[SCDVD]

In any case, sorry to hear u categorizing premiere and avid users that way. not fair for many. but oh well...

You misunderstood what I was trying to say. An elitist is not anyone who uses Preimere for example. This is an outstanding program. But because it is, a FEW people who use it develop a nose-in-the-air attitude and put on a condescending attitude toward those who don't use it as well.

[bbanderic]

I have Nero 7 and had Nero 6 prior. I think it's a very good program definitely useful. I use Nero mostly for CD burning, I think this is where Nero excells. I think it's good for data DVD's as well. For playable DVD's, I use ImgBurn, hands down the best for DVD burning IMO.

In conclusion, I think Nero is excellent for CD's but as far as the rest of it's functions, it's a jack of all trades, master of none.

[wulf109]

I've used Nero since version 4,but only for burning CD and DVD. When I install I only install Burning Rom. I've never burned a coaster that wasn't my own fault. I suspect the Nero bashers don't bother to set it up properly or are complaining about it's other modules.

[Noahtuck]

I praise Nero as well as bash it :P

It depends on what you are doing... i burn audio cd's, data cd's/dvd's, and have burned literally 100's & 100's of pre authored video dvd's with no problems.

But, when it comes to burning DL dvdr's, not gonna happen!!
I have heard nothing but problems about it with the layer breaks & when i buy only verbatim DL's & author my own DL dvdr's i prefer to use PgcEdit to set layer breaks and either ImgBurn or DVD Decrypter to burn the ISO.

I will rarely use NeroVision Express to make a fast copy of an SVCD of something i want to watch now, throw it on a cdrw & that's it, but people who use it to convert & author dvd's are either not very knowledgeable, or too lazy to learn how do it the right & better way.

Nero recode, see above
Although i must admit i have not tried or tested Nero Recode for the last few versions.

I guess overall it's a pretty mediocre suite for novice's as there are easily learned programs available for free that do most of what the nero suite does, but better.

But it does come in handy & will prob. be on my pc's for a long time to come.
& i have yet to go above Version 6.6.0.14

[LloydAZ]

I've used Nero for several years for creating and burning DVD's before I learned better methods of doing the job, so I'm not about to bash it.

I have found instances where Nero worked when I couldn't find another method that would. The last time, I had a low-res, 15fps ASF file that I needed to convert to a DVD for my brother. I tried using the tutorial on here for setting up an AVISynth script and feeding it into TMPGEnc and got audio sync issues. I tried loading it directly into TMPGEnc and convert it that way and wound up with a 30fps MPG file that worked, but would not load into DVD-Lab. Finally, I tried loading it into NeroVision Express 4, and it encoded and authored a disc for me that worked. I used VOB2MPG on the resulting output, demuxed the audio, and loaded it into DVD-Lab to create a better menu, and everything worked fine.

I have also in the past used it to create a quick PAL->NTSC or NTSC->PAL conversion. It does okay, but again there are much better methods that produce much better results. But, if you need to do it quickly, NeroVision Express will do it.

Nero is nice as a quick and easy, down and dirty, DVD authoring and burning software that just about any home video enthusiast can use. It is however not a tool suitable for professional or semi-professional DVD authors. There are much better tools out there for those purposes.

[t0nee1]

Boo hooo hooo!!!! I think I read that book already!
IMGBurn rocks!!!

[Soopafresh]

They provide the best quality AAC encoders for free from their site. That's pretty kind of them.

The problem is that Ahead has stuck a deal with almost all of the DVD burner manufacturers out the, bundling a limited version of their software with a new drive. And the latest version of their product is bloated to the point of being a distraction. Unsuspecting non techies get sucked into a world of mediocrity. That used to be the job of Adaptec/Roxio.

You can't really use this site as a measure of people's attitudes towards Nero. We're for the most part, end users who strive for better....

[t0nee1]

When my garage gets full of junk, I have a yard sale!!!! and yes I use Nero sometimes...... So it's still useful for data and or audio burns. I prefer IMGBurn however!!!!

[lordsmurf]

Nero has a hard time correctly burning DVD-Video on single- or dual/double-layer media. It varies from version to version. You're best left to other tools for this.

Nero's packed-in "added-value" non-burning tools are really pretty weak overall. Tasks like authoring, VCD creation and the like are really just awful. Ripping MP3 from a CD, on the other hand, works quite nicely.

Nero is perfect for data, audio CDs, but I can't really think of anything else it does well. Even something as simple as copying disc-to-disc is almost made impossible because of the way the buffer works.

It's also one of my tools. It has some uses. But ImgBurn, DVD Decrypter, SVCD2DVD, VCDEasy, RecordNow, CloneCD, DVD Shrink, and quite a few others are too, and at certain tasks they far surpass Nero's ability and/or quality.

I get the feeling this is all you're trying to get across. Nero has value, it's not 100% junk. I agree, if that's the message.

[SCDVD]

LS

That's right. There are basically two types of Nero comments on this forum. One is the type that has specific and helpful information and is in line with the topic of the thread. For example, yours - It has specific facts and relevant comments. The other type is the one that bothers me. I'm referring to the bombastic attach / put-down that is also not even relevant to the thread topic. If Nero (or any product) "sucks", explain why it does. It isn't helpful for someone to blast away with a negative comment without also giving some insight into their opinion. There are plenty of limitations and problems with Nero but anyone responding to a thread topic should offer specific information to back up a negative comment. If they do, it is a useful comment. If not, it is just a blast or even a personal attach.

[sven_pether]

I have nothing bad to say about Nero except for the installation process. If you don't pay attention you have goggle bars and search bars left and right. I use Nero mainly for two things.
1. Burn a single layer (DVD5)
2. Nero Recode for H264 AVC encoding of my DVD collection for use on my HTPC
For both of these things it does a good job.
If I make a backup of a DVD9 ImgBurn is the best tool out there.

[RLT69]

1. The most classic example is: If you install a Roxio product on a system with Nero on it you WILL have problems with Nero.

2. Nero has a hard time correctly burning DVD-Video on single- or dual/double-layer media. It varies from version to version. You're best left to other tools for this.

Could someone expand on this. I'm curious to know what exactly the difficulties are and what versions are effected?

I have both Roxio and Nero (6.5) and haven't noticed any problems with either program. Haven't had a problem with Nero burning SL DVDs - though it help to know what correctly means. Obviously the DVD plays fine on my player - compatibility with other players that I have access to is also good.

It's rather disheartening to hear of the poor quality of newer burning engines. Makes one want to write their own.

Cheers

[wearedoomed]

FWIW, I've used Nero on and off since V4, and I've always found it be a fairly competent tool. I have the latest version installed on my box as one part of a whole suite of tools that I use for my ripping/burning and encoding needs. I have personally never had problems burning DL disks with Nero, PROVIDED that 1) I use good Verbatim media and 2) I didn't **** up the rip in in the first place .

The way I see it Nero is just one of the tools that any video hobbyist (note that I said hobbyist, not hardcore hacker should have in the arsenal. The others are:

DVDDecrypter (still my first "go to guy" for ripping)
RipIt4Me (for those disks that choke up DVDDecrypter, specifically new copy protected ones)
ImgBurn (for when I specifically want ISO burns, this is better than Nero)
DVDShrink (when I have to shrink a rip, although I don't do that much anymore, I just burn DLs)
PSPVideo9 (for transcoding to AVC - much more control and better options than Nero Recode)
PVRExplorerPro (for ripping content off PVR disks)

My philosophy is to use the appropriate tool for any given job - in that sense, Nero has many more positives than it has negatives. Besides, Nero is easy enough that my wife can burn her own MP3 comps and home video disks without having to pester me every 5 minutes with questions

[jman98]

SCDVD - You've been a member here for 2+ years and you're just now complaining? I don't think you'd be very happy in some other forums I know of, such as Doom9, if you think this one is bad.

I hate Roxio with a passion. I think anything is better than it. I have Nero. I use it. However, I only use it for data discs, burning ISOs and making audio CDs. Nero is not a good choice for DVD burning on any layer. It compacts the data and puts the BUPs and IFOs in the same block, which is legal but insane. The BUP is your last ditch backup of the IFO and if the block with the IFO goes bad, that's why you have BUPs - a BUP for an IFO is supposed to be in a different disc block so a single block failure doesn't kill your DVDs. Leave it Nero to place them in the same block so a single block failure on a disc will make your DVD unplayable. Scroll to the bottom of
http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/pgcedit_guide/burning_with_pgcedit/burning_with...pgcedit_v2.htm
for a discussion on why this is evil. By the way, DVD Shrink does the same thing.

Nero takes extreme liberties with SVCD. Now I admit that the format is poorly defined, but still, Nero doesn't make SVCDs that even come close to being compliant. This may or may not be an issue on certain players. I have seen Nero burned SVCDs play fine on some players and not play at all on others. Nero doesn't make compliant VCDs either, although it comes closer on VCDs than it does SVCDs.

Unfortunately, sometimes we (I have done it too) bash things here we feel are not the best choice. This is because sometimes we just don't think enough about how we say things here, but also because some posters have incredibly thick heads. Not too long ago I participated in a post where I said "Don't do X because blah blah blah (long explanation why) but instead do Y because blah blah blah" and the guy basically said "Why shouldn't I do X?" when I just told him exactly why he shouldn't do it.

I didn't see your post as I rarely read the forum on weekends, but sorry if you got insulted but I'd advise not worrying about it.

[theewizard]

I'm still on Nero 6.? OEM, I use it mainly to burn CD's and sometimes to burn a DVD from an already authored and saved folder

I have never used re-code or vision express, I have a large collection of downloaded BUT un-installed & unused tools, that i will pick thru and attempt to use when I run into a problem, IF said tools play nice with my other tools and do the job, they stay installed on my machine if NOT it gets removed and on to the next one.

Nero has it's place along side my tools, but NOT for encoding OR authoring, I have never bought that version/suite or had any need to do so.

as a General rule I do NOT like all-in-one-suites, whether it be 'internet protection' or audio/Video tools

I use 'Super' a lot for converting vids for my phone 3G2 format
or a quick conversion to avi or mpeg to send somebody, BUT not for creating DVD files or files for archive purposes

the best thing you can do , is take time to try out ( play with ) different tools, even if NERO does everything you want, you might find one you like better, and in the end the knowledge and experience you gain will only help when the day comes that your current tool won't do the job properly

[bbanderic]

ImgBurn (for when I specifically want ISO burns, this is better than Nero)

ImgBurn now burns video_ts files as well, therefore taking Nero out of the equation for DVD video.

[dphirschler]

I've never gotten to the point where I *had* to have Nero to complete a task. Every time I get close, I find another free tool that can do what I need done. So I guess I never had the chance to judge Nero for what it does.


Darryl

[SCDVD]

SCDVD - You've been a member here for 2+ years and you're just now complaining? I don't think you'd be very happy in some other forums I know of, such as Doom9, if you think this one is bad.

Actually I think this forum is great. I am only complaining about a small percentage of posters.

I hate Roxio with a passion. I think anything is better than it. I have Nero. I use it. However, I only use it for data discs, burning ISOs and making audio CDs. Nero is not a good choice for DVD burning on any layer. It compacts the data and puts the BUPs and IFOs in the same block, which is legal but insane. The BUP is your last ditch backup of the IFO and if the block with the IFO goes bad, that's why you have BUPs - a BUP for an IFO is supposed to be in a different disc block so a single block failure doesn't kill your DVDs. Leave it Nero to place them in the same block so a single block failure on a disc will make your DVD unplayable. Scroll to the bottom of
http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/pgcedit_guide/burning_with_pgcedit/burning_with...pgcedit_v2.htm
for a discussion on why this is evil. By the way, DVD Shrink does the same thing.

This is an example of a VERY helpful post. You clearly outlined the issue with IFOs and BUPs in the same block.

Nero takes extreme liberties with SVCD. Now I admit that the format is poorly defined, but still, Nero doesn't make SVCDs that even come close to being compliant. This may or may not be an issue on certain players. I have seen Nero burned SVCDs play fine on some players and not play at all on others. Nero doesn't make compliant VCDs either, although it comes closer on VCDs than it does SVCDs.

Unfortunately, sometimes we (I have done it too) bash things here we feel are not the best choice. This is because sometimes we just don't think enough about how we say things here, but also because some posters have incredibly thick heads. Not too long ago I participated in a post where I said "Don't do X because blah blah blah (long explanation why) but instead do Y because blah blah blah" and the guy basically said "Why shouldn't I do X?" when I just told him exactly why he shouldn't do it.

I understand what you mean. It is really frustrating to go to the trouble of answering someone's question and have them respond as if they didn't even hear you.

I didn't see your post as I rarely read the forum on weekends, but sorry if you got insulted but I'd advise not worrying about it.

[t0nee1]

"I understand what you mean. It is really frustrating to go to the trouble of answering someone's question and have them respond as if they didn't even hear you. "

I hear ya man!!!

[Scorpion King]

I'm using v6.6.1.4 of Nero Burning ROM with no problemsl. I actually like the program. Its easy and fast to use and learn. What else can I say.

It came with Nero Digital (i guess), the video capture/encoding/etc program. That isn't much in my opinion. It is very hard to keep it from reencoding your files that it made me think it was written like that to keep nubes from trying to author non dvd compliant files. Hell, it even reencoded compliant files. Maybe thats why it's called Nero Recode...

I guess I'm a half-basher....

Good luck.

[videomaniac]

I have tried to like Nero for a long time. As others have said Nero Express is ok for burning data but as a whole it is bloatware and not really worth what ever you paid for it.

[GMaq]

I have tried to like Nero for a long time. As others have said Nero Express is ok for burning data but as a whole it is bloatware and not really worth what ever you paid for it.

Bloatware?? Ever heard of a Custom Install?? I agree with the OP that many of the complaints in both the regular forums and in the "Tools" feedback forum are out of ignorance or lack of diligence in troubleshooting, I like to mess around with many different ways of doing things usually to learn something and exercise the few remaining brain cells I have left, But Nero(v7) has pretty much done everything I've ever wanted it to do without any problems whatsoever, in fact "Recode" can stand toe to toe with pretty much any MPEG-4 transcoding software out there. There are few softwares except maybe SUPER that have such polar opposite reviews in the forums as Nero.

[jimmalenko]

It's funny how things change throughout product cycles, especially with software.

My first burner was a 4X SCSI Matsushita CD-R/RW bundled with the then Adaptec Easy CD Creator V3 - IMHO a great tool to create custom audio CDs and quite reasonable for data CDs also. The wizard approach made things quite easy as well. Then somewhere along the way I heard about Nero, but my first look at it told me that this was something that required "expert knowledge" to use (before I found out about Nero Express of course).

Somewhere along the way I changed to Nero (I think I got it bundled with my next CD-R/RW) and from there I haven't looked back. I've taken a look at trials for Roxio products but I'm in a Nero comfort zone and quite happy with what I've got. However I still use the Jewel CD Case creator from Adaptec as I still find it the easiest to use.

I've settled on Nero V6.6.0.13, which works absolutely fine for everything I wish to do. I can only recall one dodgy update (V6.0.0.15 IIRC) that basically crapped everything in my system out but the next update fixed whatever issue there was in the earlier version.

Nero has still done the job for me once switching to DVDRs - I prefer to pre-author in authoring softwares then use Nero Express to burn DVD-5s. However DL burning is still in its infancy and so I have chosen to use the tried and true PGCEdit/IMGBurn combo for any DL burns.

My experience around these forums tells me that Nero seems to be one of two things - either absolutely brilliant or absolutely hopeless. There doesn't seem to be too many inbetween. Unfortunately there are so many different combinations of hardware and software these days that it must be relatively difficult to remain clash-free with everything.

I guess the moral of the story is, if you are truly satisfied with the results you are getting from a particular package, then stick with a good thing.

[dphirschler]

I thought I would have to keep Roxio around just for burning data CDs (and eventually data DVDs), but Deep Burner took care of that. So now I have no reason to ever get that or Nero. Maybe for bin/cue VCDs, but I think last time I needed that I found a tool that does that as well.


Darryl

[stantheman1976]

I've used Nero 6 to burn a ton of authored DVD's and distribute them. I've recently given out 6 discs from 2 high school pageants and everyone is happy so far. I've filmed other pageants and events and burned the authored discs with Nero. I would never use it with anything dual layer associated.

[videomaniac]

I have tried to like Nero for a long time. As others have said Nero Express is ok for burning data but as a whole it is bloatware and not really worth what ever you paid for it.

Bloatware?? Ever heard of a Custom Install?? I agree with the OP that many of the complaints in both the regular forums and in the "Tools" feedback forum are out of ignorance or lack of diligence in troubleshooting, I like to mess around with many different ways of doing things usually to learn something and exercise the few remaining brain cells I have left, But Nero(v7) has pretty much done everything I've ever wanted it to do without any problems whatsoever, in fact "Recode" can stand toe to toe with pretty much any MPEG-4 transcoding software out there. There are few softwares except maybe SUPER that have such polar opposite reviews in the forums as Nero.

It is still 'bloatware' regardless if you choose to install only part or all of it. My definition of 'bloatware' is that there are lots features but few of them really do anything well.

I have done lots and lots of experimenting and playing around with Nero and many other software apps over the last 5 years or so, which is precisely why IMO Nero is 'Bloatware'.

As I said in my earlier post, Nero Express is a pretty solid CD/DVD burner but it is not as good as Imgburn IMO and in my experience.

Nero Recode (Nero Digital) is ok but is still not widely supported and probably never will be.

[dun4cheap]

Nero suits my needs, I edit my videos in Avid Liquid and Studio and export a Video_ts and make my layout in Nero. I either burn an ISO or CD/DVD and then load it to my duplicator. I have Sent out 1000's of DVDs from Nero.

As for installing Magix Edit and the auto run feature being disabled, certain software programs have done this for years. Especially in support of Windows 98 and ME. If you didn't disable it then what would happen if you were burning a disc it would interfere with the writing process and cause Device Underruns. (Any of you remember that?) Its a small inconvenience yes, but you can fix it without going to the registry.

As others have already said, custom install works for me. I don't need the other stuff just the burning rom. Although I do like to use Nero Show to test my DVDs along with power DVD.

If you don't like nero you can always use Record Now, Roxio or some free tools. Just remember they don't all burn equally. I have found Nero to be one of the most reliable especially make DVD-Videos.

I also recommend staying far away from Roxio, Adaptech EZ CD Creator...