Hauppauge PVR USB 2

[strongbad]

I think I'm going to get one of these for my laptop. I'm new to capture cards and it appears this card has got good reviews. My main concern is recording at the highest quality. What software should I use to achieve this? I don't care for watching live tv, web streaming or any other fancy features. I just want to do Mpeg2 15mbps CBR then re-encode. I'm getting mixed opinions on the PIC QUALITY of beyondtv and sagetv. Any advice would be helpful.

My source will be satellite.

[jagabo]

All software will record with the same quality with the PVR USB2 because the device itself does the encoding. All the software on the computer does is save the data in a file and display it on the screen. The WinTV2000 software that comes with it is adequate.

[strongbad]

All software will record with the same quality with the PVR USB2 because the device itself does the encoding. All the software on the computer does is save the data in a file and display it on the screen. The WinTV2000 software that comes with it is adequate.

Then why are there different opinions of pic quality on both these programs?

By the way I'm looking at radioshack and they have 3 different models with 2 different prices. Looking at their stat sheets, I don't see what the differences are.
http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kw=hauppauge&kwCatId=&fbc=1&f=PAD%2FProduct...2FExternal+USB

[jagabo]

Then why are there different opinions of pic quality on both these programs?

They control the hardware settings of the device; things like frame size, bitrate etc. Any program can set those settings and get the same results. There are some controls that some programs don't let you set. But you can use a third party application for them. For example, the WinTV2000 application that came with my PVR-250 doesn't include controls for the noise filtering and image sharpening that the card can do. I use a few small applets to set those settings. The card remembers those setting so you can pretty much set them and forget them.

Some of the other controls in various programs deal with how they programs display the captured video on the computer monitor. There will be options for different methods of deinterlacing, brightness, contrast (separate from brightness and contrast of the captured MPEG data), etc. But these don't effect the quality of the recorded MPEG file.

By the way I'm looking at radioshack and they have 3 different models with 2 different prices. Looking at their stat sheets, I don't see what the differences are.
http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kw=hauppauge&kwCatId=&fbc=1&f=PAD%2FProduct...2FExternal+USB

One is the MCE version (model 99016, for use with Windows Media Center), one is the regular Windows version (941) with s-video and composite inputs, the third one (1020) isn't listed at Hauppauge's web site:

http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/compare/compare_pvr.html

but the RS listing doesn't indicate s-video and composite inputs. On the other hand, Amazon.com's listing for the 1020 indicates it does have s-video and composite, but the picture is different.

I wonder if the 941 is based on the older (and more expensive) chips like the PVR 250, and the 1020 is based on the newer chips like the PVR-150 (which has lots of "issues").?

[olyteddy]

Don't know what the model 1020 is. I've had my model 941 for 1.5 years, and am still satisfied. Titan TV is an ok scheduler and Win TV 2000 is a good viewer / recorder. The 941 uses the Conexant CX23416 chip, same as many professional streaming converters. Be warned, the 941 doesn't always play well with the VIA chipset in some laptops. I've posted on a couple of Hauppauge boards to try to find out the difference between models.

EDIT: I just looked at the Hauppauge site and the 1020 uses software encoding, the 941 hardware. Google is your friend...RadioShack needs an editor...

[Bjs]

Pc must have usb2 connection or forget high bitrate for capture .
Usb2 require's service pack 2 for xp + motherboard's usb2 driver's .
(install sp2 pack , reboot , install mb usb2 driver's , reboot)

At 1800mhz , according to your spec's for pc ... you might , if all above requirement's are met , beable to record 5 or 6mbs per second (amd1800 is 1500mhz) ... for highend capture , cpu must rate above 2 gig .

(if this pc is laptop , must be on main's power at all time's during capture's)

Most of the modern via chipset's are asyncronous ... check with mother board manufacturer that you current chipset is asyncronous ... if not , forget usb2 .

If you meet all the above , or close (cpu) , then check current draw of device ... if device has 2 amp draw , buy a usb2 hub (that has power adapter) to interface between device's , or you could risk damage to usb chipset .

Even though xp pop's up the warning " usb overload detected - reset" , if this dose pop up , you might as well buy another mother board because the usb2 chipset will nolonger be at full bandwidth .

Considering the amd 1800 cpu , there are 2 avi codec's you can capture with in the tool's section that will help ... while the captured file's will be large (not overly) , depending on the setting's you use ... they should allow the system to record at very good full d1 resolution without audio sync issue's , or dropped frame's ... then encode these later to mpeg2 or dvd .

To connect such device , if using rca cable's , then you feed video to capture device ... get a conversion cable (rca to stereo headphone) , pass audio to line in ...

If audio and video are passed through unit , the picture suffer's .

To install capture device :

Connect powered usb2 hub (belkin make good quality) , allow pc to install device .
Next , install software that came with capture device ... shut down pc .
Connect capture device to usb2 powered hub , restart pc .

Number one rule : NEVER connect / disconnect device from pc while pc is powered up ... problem's can happen .

=====================

Just my experience of usb2 device's under xp condition's .

[strongbad]

I actually own a P4 notebook 3.2GHZ 1gig ram running XP home with usb2. My profile is old. Now reading reviews and other posts, it said it captures at 15mbps but I'm reading on the box that it maxes at 12mbps?

My main goal is to capture at the highest mpeg2. I don't need a fancy software, just something that will give me the best picture quality. I'm not gonna be using the schedule feature. I like to manually record and stop when I please.

Thanks for all the informative responses.

[FulciLives]

I actually own a P4 notebook 3.2GHZ 1gig ram running XP home with usb2. My profile is old. Now reading reviews and other posts, it said it captures at 15mbps but I'm reading on the box that it maxes at 12mbps?

My main goal is to capture at the highest mpeg2. I don't need a fancy software, just something that will give me the best picture quality. I'm not gonna be using the schedule feature. I like to manually record and stop when I please.

Thanks for all the informative responses.

It says 12000kbps but it can do 15000kbps

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Please note that there is a non-MCE unit and a MCE unit when it comes to the Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2

[InXess]

don't know about this particular device but I see no benefit in capturing TV at 15 Mbps even if your hardware software permits that.
under normal circumstances with a good device 5-6 Mbps should be sufficient and differences between 8-10-12-15 Mbps not really that striking (if any...)

[strongbad]

don't know about this particular device but I see no benefit in capturing TV at 15 Mbps even if your hardware software permits that.
under normal circumstances with a good device 5-6 Mbps should be sufficient and differences between 8-10-12-15 Mbps not really that striking (if any...)

Well I like to do everything at 15mbps because I only record sports like boxing, nfl and things like that. The run time is always unpredictable so I like to cap at the highest, then cut whatever I want out and run a multi-pass to the proper bitrate for the newly edited file.

Well I went to Compusa and bought the model 941 w/o the MCE (dont know what thats for). I'll go home later and try it out. I'm skeptical because it's USB2. I'm scared of dropped frames or the USB2 being too slow to capture 15mbps. I read a lot of reviews and posts and FulciLives' posts about it influenced me to buy it.

Before I get started, should I use the installation CD or go somewhere else and get the drivers?
I have mpeg-vcr for editing the file, but what would I use to re-encode multipass?

[jagabo]

At 1800mhz , according to your spec's for pc ... you might , if all above requirement's are met , beable to record 5 or 6mbs per second (amd1800 is 1500mhz) ... for highend capture , cpu must rate above 2 gig .

The PVR USB2 is a hardware MPEG2 encoder. Any CPU over 1 GHz will have no problems capturing at 12 or 15 mbps. Even CPUs below that will work if you disable display of the video while it's playing, or if your graphics card has some MPEG decoding hardware (most ATI cards).

don't know about this particular device but I see no benefit in capturing TV at 15 Mbps even if your hardware software permits that.
under normal circumstances with a good device 5-6 Mbps should be sufficient and differences between 8-10-12-15 Mbps not really that striking (if any...)

There is an difference with the Hauppauge cards, especially with noisy analog captures. I often capture at 15 mbps, inverse telecine (NTSC), and reencode to MPEG2 or MPEG4.

[strongbad]

don't know about this particular device but I see no benefit in capturing TV at 15 Mbps even if your hardware software permits that.
under normal circumstances with a good device 5-6 Mbps should be sufficient and differences between 8-10-12-15 Mbps not really that striking (if any...)

There is an difference with the Hauppauge cards, especially with noisy analog captures. I often capture at 15 mbps, inverse telecine (NTSC), and reencode to MPEG2 or MPEG4.[/quote]

What tools are you using to re-encode to DVD?

[jagabo]

I'm skeptical because it's USB2. I'm scared of dropped frames or the USB2 being too slow to capture 15mbps.

Don't be. 15 mbps is way below the theoretical 480 mbps that USB2 can handle, and the more realistic ~250 mbps that USB2 can really deliver.

It's a little confusing setting up for 15 mbps in WinTV2000. Start with one of the 12,000 kbps templates (there are both CBR and VBR templates), change the bitrate to 15,000 kbps. You might think at this point that it's set up to record at 15 mbps, but it's not. You have to save the current setting as a new template before closing that dialog. Then select that template.

Some useful web sites for Hauppauge PVR owners:

http://www.shspvr.com/
http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/htpc.html

[strongbad]

I just set everything up and ran the WinTV200 ap. I gotta say this program is absolute crap. The window is so small and you cant resize it. I don't even know how the hell to watch tv with this thing. I'm connected via sat box using composite cables for now just to test things. I accidently got a channel to come in and now it's gone. There's like a delayed reaction. Can I use a better program than this crap? Any tips on what I should be doing or getting?

edit: Seems the only way to watch TV is to click on the Pause button? But when I do this, I get a popup saying "Stream Error A Stream operation failed. hit Okay to continue. Some errors may require restarting the application"

The picture doesn't even come in all the way. Like portions of thebottom will show a picture, then the top part is the stupid hauppuage earth logo. To remove it I have to move the display and when I do, it goes back to the stupid logo. wtf

Edit: Ok I got it to work. had to configure it to use composite. Still, the interface sucks. Have to figure out how to get it to 15,000kbps. In the advanced tab, I can set it at 15mbps but I can't click on the apply button. So it's at 12 still

[jagabo]

After you've set the bitrate return to the Configurations tab, type a name into the Save New Config Field, the press the Save New COnfig button. Finally, return to the previous dialog, and use the pulldown to select your new template.

[strongbad]

Yeah, I fixed the bitrate option moments after I posted about it. Are there any tweaks I should make for the contrast, brightness and things like that? Or should I leave it. Would another software produce a better PQ or is it the same? I guess I could deal with this program. I'm just gonna hit rec, and stop so if the PQ is the same with other programs, I guess I don't need it.

[vhelp]

..Yeah, TGIF everyone

Well I went to Compusa and bought the model 941 w/o the MCE (dont know what thats for). I'll go home later and try it out. I'm skeptical because it's USB2. I'm scared of dropped frames or the USB2 being too slow to capture 15mbps. I read a lot of reviews and posts and FulciLives' posts about it influenced me to buy it.

You shouldn't have any problems capturing at 15mbps as long as your USB-2 board is
properly driver-configured, per your OS, System Mobo and Hardware.

Here is an example of my Hardware MPEG board and Bitrate setup..

I'm using the ADS DVD Xpress (hardware mpeg-2 board) and although its bitrate is quoted
at max 15 MBps, I am able to achieve 20 MBps on my WIN98 Gold OS (via reg hack)
that I have setup, and even under these *high* conditions, I have no trouble with the
final MPEG-2 source file -- not dropped frames or lossy audio sync issues.
( mind you, I can do even 25 MBps, but 20 seems enough )

Before I get started, should I use the installation CD or go somewhere else and get the drivers?

I would first given the Install CD a try before any further attempt of D/L'ing their
latest drivers. It doesn't hurt to D/L them in the mean time. But, all the while,
give the Install CD a go and review the project(s) for any issues. If there are any
issues, then you can bring them up as questions on this forum, and if it can be
determined that the drivers are at fault (per your given *total* system) you can
Uninstall your current Install CD Drivers, and give the newly D/L'ed ones' a try.

I have mpeg-vcr for editing the file, but what would I use to re-encode multipass?

Any MPEG encoder. Some examples:

** TMPGenc
** CCE
** Procoder
** QEnc
** HCenc
** and a few others

What results you get will depend on everything above, plus your level of skills
and knowledge and ability/gifts of software/tooling around

-vhelp 3954

[strongbad]

Ok, so I've been messing with it and getting familiar with the program. Now I created a template for 6.7Mbit/sec DVD VBR. Recorded a small clip, played it back and it showed it's playing at around 6.7, peak at 8MBit. So I go in mpeg-vcr to trim and save to see if I'll have Sync issues. None. Feeling good, so I go ahead and run it through TMPGENC DVD author and it's telling me the clip is over 10MBit! and that a standard dvd handles like 9.8Mbit or something. What now?

[canadateck]

You need a Lower bit Rate. Capture with More Bits if your Going to Edit or use filters and Re-Encode. DVD only Handle's 9.8Bits.

Total bitrate including video, audio and subs can be max 10.08 Mbps (10080 kbps)

[jagabo]

I created a template for 6.7Mbit/sec DVD VBR. Recorded a small clip, played it back and it showed it's playing at around 6.7, peak at 8MBit... so I go ahead and run it through TMPGENC DVD author and it's telling me the clip is over 10MBit!

Can you just ignore the warning and burn anyway? You can use DVDPatcher to set the bitrate flag in the header of the file. That might be enough to convince TMPGEnc DVD Author the file is OK.

Regarding the brightness, contrast, and color controls, see if you can find a channel that broadcasts the Macbeth Color Chart late at night. Then adjust the settings based on that.

You may find these programs useful:

Noise filter controls:
http://www.shspvr.com/download/hcwpp2ut.zip

Prefilter tweaker:
http://www.shspvr.com/download/pvr250prefiltertweak-1.0.zip

[strongbad]

I created a template for 6.7Mbit/sec DVD VBR. Recorded a small clip, played it back and it showed it's playing at around 6.7, peak at 8MBit... so I go ahead and run it through TMPGENC DVD author and it's telling me the clip is over 10MBit!

Can you just ignore the warning and burn anyway? You can use DVDPatcher to set the bitrate flag in the header of the file. That might be enough to convince TMPGEnc DVD Author the file is OK.

Regarding the brightness, contrast, and color controls, see if you can find a channel that broadcasts the Macbeth Color Chart late at night. Then adjust the settings based on that.

You may find these programs useful:

Noise filter controls:
http://www.shspvr.com/download/hcwpp2ut.zip

Prefilter tweaker:
http://www.shspvr.com/download/pvr250prefiltertweak-1.0.zip

Yeah I went ahead and ignored it and authored anyway. Plays fine, but I just didn't understand why it said that. Anyway, I'll play with those filters. Thanks

[strongbad]

Here are some screencaps in JPEG using S-Video.

[InXess]

I'm using the ADS DVD Xpress (hardware mpeg-2 board) and although its bitrate is quoted
at max 15 MBps, I am able to achieve 20 MBps on my WIN98 Gold OS (via reg hack)
that I have setup, and even under these *high* conditions, I have no trouble with the
final MPEG-2 source file -- not dropped frames or lossy audio sync issues.
( mind you, I can do even 25 MBps, but 20 seems enough )
.....
-vhelp 3954

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=11532&PageId=8

these pages show no benefit of higher MPEG2 rates (image detail). Is motion then much better? What's your experience?

[jagabo]

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=11532&PageId=8

these pages show no benefit of higher MPEG2 rates (image detail). Is motion then much better? What's your experience?

Still shots from a clean source don't require much bitrate. High motion shots from a noisy analog TV source will benefit from >8 mbps captures. You will get less macroblocking and more detail (more of noise is perserved too, unfortunately).

[SHS]

model 1020 know as WinTV-USB2 is not a hardware encoder.
As for mixed opinions on the PIC QUALITY of beyondtv and sagetv that depend on number fatcer mpeg decoder, monitor color setting and how clean source input is but sometime that can be cuases by bad card not working rigth.

[strongbad]

I'm not impressed with my screencaps. It's not terrible but the colors and detail seems faded. My Pioneer 633 makes a nicer picture.

[jagabo]

I'm not impressed with my screencaps. It's not terrible but the colors and detail seems faded. My Pioneer 633 makes a nicer picture.

Your black levels are way off. You need to adjust the contrast and brightness. Hence my suggestion to find a channel that broadcasts a test pattern just before going off air at night.

Another thing to keep in mind is that computer monitors have very different gamma curves than televisions. Video normally looks dark and dull on a computer monitor. Burn the MPEG file to a DVD and watch it on TV, it will look much better.

[strongbad]

I was up late night looking for channels for the patterns, couldn't find any. Maybe I need to get the AVIA dvd calibrator. What settings do all you guys with this card use?

[strongbad]

Those screencaps looks pretty crappy actually like I'm watching a VHS tape or something. Image is way too soft, blacks are off and it's got a slight blur to it. It's apparent when watching it live as well. The "Color" tab settings really doesn't improve the image at all.

[SHS]

strongbad I make a DVD Test Patterns see here
http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=8475.0