Moving subtitles position on DVD

[mattstan]

Hi,

The subitles on a DVD movie are too close to the left of the screen and sometimes the first word is partially obscured.

I'm trying the 'long way around' de-muxing, fiddling around with sub and sup files, etc. and re-muxing but I was just wondering if there was an easier way to tell the DVD (in the IFOs) just to shift the subtitle position a little to the right?

Here's hoping...

Many thanks.

[Baldrick]

try dvdsubedit

[mattstan]

Thanks for the speedy reply.

I don't need to move them vertically only horizontally (left to right).
Can it do this?

Many thanks.

[Baldrick]

i think it only can move them vertical...not horizontal

[mattstan]

Thanks again.

That's a shame, I'll check it out now and see if it can move them horizontally. There may have been a new version since you last looked.

I'll let you know either way.

Many thanks again.

[mattstan]

No joy it can only move them vertically.
Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Can this not be done by editing IFOs?

Thanks.

[mikiem]

You *Might* get away with changing the values under the title's Pgciti in Ifoedit I think. While AFAIK you can't set position, you can set the sub track used for normal, widescreen etc. -- if you have 2 subs (ie. one wide, one l/box) as one track, can try changing/correcting which one is used for what screens.

If Ifoedit doesn't show 2 subs -- for example using 0 for all 4 screens, can try Pgcdemux to make sure there aren't 2 tracks included.

Otherwise if 16:9 can *try* setting title width narrower in 1st screen of title's ifo using Ifoedit (double click title mpg2 I think). I *think* the aspect flag in mpg2 will be used properly by player, & it might force narrower display of subs.

[mattstan]

Thanks for the IFO suggestion, I'll give it a go and let you know the results.
Cheers

[mattstan]

You *Might* get away with changing the values under the title's Pgciti in Ifoedit I think. While AFAIK you can't set position, you can set the sub track used for normal, widescreen etc. -- if you have 2 subs (ie. one wide, one l/box) as one track, can try changing/correcting which one is used for what screens.

I tried editing the PGCITI first and using IFOEdit found the correct section.

VTS_PGCITI has a 'sub-item' VTS_PGC_1 which showed the following:

Sub-picture stream 1 status: -2147483392
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr. (4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr. (wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr. (letterbox): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr. (pan&scan): 0

Now I guess what you're suggesting is to change the 'letterbox' value from 1 to 0 and changing one of the others --starting with '4:3'-- to a 1, in the hope that the subtitles will be moved as if displaying on a 4:3 aspect ratio, while hoping the film remains in the letterbox aspect ratio.

However when I tried changing the fields, IFOEdit told me "Item is not editable".

Note: If would allow changing the value '-2147483392' in the 'Sub-picture stream 1 status' field. But what this value means I have no idea.

Is there a way to edit the 'Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.' fields? Maybe by changing an IFOEdit option or using some other software?

Many thanks and regards.

[mikiem]

"Now I guess what you're suggesting is to change the 'letterbox' value from 1 to 0 and changing one of the others --starting with '4:3'-- to a 1, in the hope that the subtitles will be moved as if displaying on a 4:3 aspect ratio, while hoping the film remains in the letterbox aspect ratio. "

Sorry -- thinking while typing I don't always explain much. The DVD player will stretch the subs to fit a 16:9 screen, & if you do this with the std subs they can look ugly, so a 2nd version of the sub track can be used -- one that has been designed to be stretched. Changing the tracks used is a pure guess, one of the tracks might be set up wrong, but it might have an impact and is relatively easy to do. The number to use 0 for all subs sould be -2147483648 .

I *think* there are some tables & calculators on-line for getting the hex values, or can look at another DVD. Using PgcEdit, if you select the VTST for the title, then click on the Edit PGC button at the lower left corner of the PgcEdit window, you'll get a dialog window & in the top rite you can also set those same sub values.

To answer the 2nd part of your question, the player should (hopefully) follow the DVD instructions -- it does so setting menu size, default audio etc. When playing video however I think players usually follow the instructions in the mpg2 file embedded in the vob. My idea was that this might cause the subs not to be stretched, while the video would be shown normally. This is a separate guess though , either this or the 1st change might do something & both are easier I think then re-rendering the subs.

Learned something.
Double checking here: http://dvd.sourceforge.net/dvdinfo/ if you click on the subs link it looks like there might be a sub command to set the display area ("SET_DAREA"). Googling on that found that you can access some of the sub commands using vobedit on the 1st vob of a titleset (look for subpicture pack on the left. change on rite). Unfortunately, other then offset using trial & error, have really no idea yet what I'm doing :P so would suggest looking at a *good* DVD & saving/compareing values.

[mattstan]

Okay forget my question about "Item is not editable". Once I spotted the hex value of the "Sub-picture stream 1 status: -2147483392" was 80000100, I worked out how to alter this number to change the values of the 'not editable ones'.

Unfortunately changing these didn't move the subtitles. Oh well.


Your 2nd suggestion:

Otherwise if 16:9 can *try* setting title width narrower in 1st screen of title's ifo using Ifoedit (double click title mpg2 I think). I *think* the aspect flag in mpg2 will be used properly by player, & it might force narrower display of subs.

It is 16:9 so I'll try this next. Fingers crossed.

Many thanks.

[mattstan]

Hi Again,

I posted my:

Okay forget my question about "Item is not editable". Once I spotted the hex value

post before seeing your latest post:

Sorry -- thinking while typing

I think we were both typing at the same time and you posted while I was still editing my post.

I'll try and absorb your helpful, and appreciated post, and see what I can come up with. These IFOs are mighty complex. Yes I have learnt something, let's see if I can put it to good use.

Many thanks again.

[mikiem]

"Yes I have learnt something,"

Cool , but I meant me

Didn't know about the vobedit part previously.

[jeanl]

This is not something you can change from the IFO. Unfortunately, this requires decoding the subpic data, moving the subtitle, then re-encoding, and there's no tool to do that easily as of today (it's planned for DVDSubEdit but not implemented yet)... Your best bet is to subrip them, OCR them, and recreate them in the right location...
jeanl

[mattstan]

This is not something you can change from the IFO. Unfortunately, this requires decoding the subpic data, moving the subtitle, then re-encoding, and there's no tool to do that easily as of today (it's planned for DVDSubEdit but not implemented yet)... Your best bet is to subrip them, OCR them, and recreate them in the right location...
jeanl

Thanks -- unfortunately I've reached the same conclusion. Or buy a DVD player with a decent zoom-out facility because the subtitles too far to the left (I've discovered) is a TV overscan problem.

[jeanl]

Well, what I said was not entirely true: sometimes, you can change the horizontal position without having to decode the subpics. The next version of DVDSubEdit will allow you to do that. This is only possible, though, when your subs are authored so they don't use the entire screen (I mean, their background isn't as big as the screen itself) which, unfortunately, is often the case.
jeanl

[mattstan]

Well, what I said was not entirely true: sometimes, you can change the horizontal position without having to decode the subpics. The next version of DVDSubEdit will allow you to do that. This is only possible, though, when your subs are authored so they don't use the entire screen (I mean, their background isn't as big as the screen itself) which, unfortunately, is often the case.
jeanl

Thanks for the info.

When will the new version of DVDSubEdit be available? How can I work out if the subs causing me problems have a small background or a large one?

Thanks a lot for your replies.

[jeanl]

mattstan, you can know by opening the subs in DVDSubEdit, and in the transparency area, moving the transparency to the right, then selecting the background pixel in the dropdown and moving the slider all the way to the right (what you're doing is you're making ALL pixels opaque, so you can see the background). If the background covers then entire screen, you won't be able to move them. If it only covers a small rectangle around the subtitles, you'll be able to.
jeanl
P.S. I'll post the version soon.

[mattstan]

mattstan, you can know by opening the subs in DVDSubEdit, and in the transparency area, moving the transparency to the right, then selecting the background pixel in the dropdown and moving the slider all the way to the right (what you're doing is you're making ALL pixels opaque, so you can see the background). If the background covers then entire screen, you won't be able to move them. If it only covers a small rectangle around the subtitles, you'll be able to.
jeanl
P.S. I'll post the version soon.

Okay, many thanks I'll have a look later.

When you say you'll post the new version 'soon', does that mean this week, this month, in a few weeks, this year?

Thanks man.

[jeanl]

It means today or tomorrow!
jeanl

[mattstan]

It means today or tomorrow!
jeanl

BRILLIANT -- many thanks -- fingers crossed my DVD will have only a small background -- I'll post here and let you know. If you have time please reply here when you post the new version, cos I'll get email notification!

Many, many thanks again.

[jeanl]

Mattstan, version 0.90 of DVDSubEdit is now out, which will allow you to move your subpics, if the background does not take the entire screen. Link in my sig, give it a try!
Cheers,
Jeanl

[mattstan]

Mattstan, version 0.90 of DVDSubEdit is now out, which will allow you to move your subpics, if the background does not take the entire screen. Link in my sig, give it a try!
Cheers,
Jeanl

Thanks I've downloaded it and will give it a try.

BTW you forgot to update your 'Last updated January 25, 2006' on your web site.

Cheers.

[jeanl]

Thanks mattstan, you're right.
Keep me posted of what the results are...

[mattstan]

Thanks mattstan, you're right.
Keep me posted of what the results are...

Will do, I'm just about to try it...
Thanks.

[mattstan]

No luck I'm afraid. The subtitles 'background' is the whole screen. Oh well, many thanks for all your help.

However I tried a few other DVDs and found one that had a small background, DVDSubEdit moved the subtitles on that for me. Well done!!

[jeanl]

mattstan, I do plan on adding the decoding-recoding feature next (the code is written), but I'll need to do quite a bit of testing before I send it out... So not all hope is lost!
jeanl

[mattstan]

ok thanks man. will you try and remember to reply here so I get email notification please? I'll check your site from time to time. Many thanks again.

[jeanl]

mattstan, there's an unofficial beta here
that should allow to move your subpics horizontally.
It's an early beta, meaning the UI hasn't been adjusted for that.
Procedure:
- Load you vob into DVDSubEdit,
- For each sub you want to move left or right, press Ctrl-E. You won't see any difference, but the horizontal slider will then be enabled. Move it the way you want.

What Ctrl-E does is that it crops the subpic background to the minimum horizontal width to fit the "useful" part of the subtitle. If you change the transparency of the background pixel to opaque (to see the background), you'll see that as soon as you press Ctrl-E, the background shrinks horizontally, allowing you to move the subpic left or right.
One current annoyance is that you have to do it for all subpics you want to move (you can't do "Apply to all" yet)...

Let me know if this works or does not for you.
Jeanl

[mattstan]

mattstan, there's an unofficial beta here
that should allow to move your subpics horizontally.
It's an early beta, meaning the UI hasn't been adjusted for that.
<snip...snip>
Let me know if this works or does not for you.
Jeanl

Okay I'll give it a try tomorrow (it's 22.15 in my timezone). Many, many thanks for this, it goes way beyond the usual level of forum and software support. In return I'll move the first 10 or so subtitles and output the VOBs to check to see if it works and give you as much helpful feedback as I can. Is it hard to do the 'apply to all' feature? --It would take ages to do all the subtitles individually. Regards and thanks again.