Home Video backup advice needed.

[churchie04]

I'm trying to archive my families Hi8 library onto DVD.

This is what I've done so far:

1. Caputre video with ATI MMC using Mpeg2 DVD video setting, 720x480, about 6mbps bit rate, not using 3:2 pulldown, 48khz mono mpeg audio (camera only recorded mono).

2. Use Womble Video to cut and trim video without having to re-encode.

3. Using Adobe Encore to master.

The problem that I am running into is that it seems that when the video is zoomed in quite a bit there are a lot of dots , almost like a texture pattern across the whole video. This is NOT Dot Crawl. It seems it may be a result of upsampling the resultion of Hi8 to 720x480.

When viewing this on a computer it is annoying, but not a problem. At 100% zoom the video looks very near the original tape.

THE PROBLEM: After mastering the DVD , there is a HUGE amount of moire on the video when displayed on a TV. I think the TV is seeing all the dots and freaking out.

Do you think that recording it in Half-D1 resolution would fix the problem.

The only problem with Half-D1 is that Encore won't author Half-D1 resolution videos.

[thecoalman]

Do you think that recording it in Half-D1 resolution would fix the problem.

Doubt it, most will argue capturing to the highest res is usually the best method. The only real argument IMO would be that your creating a larger file than you need it won't lower the quality.

Anyhow Lordsmurf has some great guides on his site for capturing with the ATI. He's using Half D-1 in this guide. http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/atimpeg/atimpeg.htm

[junkmalle]

You probably have a field order problem. Or you're scaling interlaced video incorrectly. Maybe you could post sample images from the source MPG and the final VOB files.

[churchie04]

Yeah, i've read all of Lord Smurfs guides, more than once. I'll try to get some images posted.

[churchie04]

It appears my instincts were correct.

I went back and from scratch did two seperate captures of the same footage. The only difference being the resolution.

I then made a Hybrid Full Res / Half-D1 res DVD with DVDLab and tried it out on my tv, wouldn't you know it the Half-D1 res didn't have any moire problems and the Full Res was the same as the first time. I will try the full res one more time switching the interlace fields.

Thanks.

[thecoalman]

I will try the full res one more time switching the interlace fields.
.

That's probably your trouble right there, capture cards for the most part are top field. DV cams and Analog to DV converters are bottom field. Capture and maintain that setting throughout the process, it's also important that if your output is to be viewed on a TV that you leave it interlaced.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=257631

[churchie04]

I can't find in ATI MMC where to chose which field order to use, only to De-Interlace or Leave Interlaced, i always choose to leave it interlaced.

[thecoalman]

I can't find in ATI MMC where to chose which field order to use, only to De-Interlace or Leave Interlaced, i always choose to leave it interlaced.

Now that I think of it..... neither any my cards. Scratrch that ....should read..... Don't deinterlace tyour video during capture and make sure you encode as interlaced.

[churchie04]

So does field order only matter when de-interlacing?

[thecoalman]

So does field order only matter when de-interlacing?

Field order matters when your encoding. If you switch the field order for the encode it's going to look like crap, same if you deinterlace it.

[churchie04]

I'm almost 100% certain now that it is the capture resolution.

The moire is very abundant on the 720x480 source. When i use my DVD player to zoom in on the video, thus causing the dots that are the result of the upsampling, to spread apart, the moire goes away.

[thecoalman]

The moire is very abundant on the 720x480 source. When i use my DVD player to zoom in on the video, thus causing the dots that are the result of the upsampling, to spread apart, the moire goes away.

Well from my experience that is not the case. I'd say it was the card but that's not the case either since I know the AIW produces good results. Post a screenshot so we can see what your talking about.

One other thing to note is to make sure is that womble or the authoring software aren't switching thr fields on you. I'm unfamiliar with either so I'll leave it at that.

[churchie04]

Having trouble with images...hang on

[churchie04]

Ok, here we go,



This one is 720x480, upper field first


This one is 720x480, lower field first


This one is 352x480, upper field first


Don't mind the Mpeg2 or Jpeg compression. Just look at the artifacts introduced with with 720x480.

I used Ulead Video studio 9 to change the field order. and capture.

[junkmalle]

I don't have any ATI capture cards so I don't know what the probem might be. But I know that is not normal for any ATI card. You need to figure out what is causing those problems. It has nothing to do with your source being Hi8.

[thecoalman]

That's not normal under any circumstances, it even appears that it's showing up in your 352x480 screenshot.

First thing I would suggest is you use LS's guides for capture and see if it improves. Don't use VS for capture. You can import it into VS for editing after you capture.

BTW you can post full images here, no need to do it elsewhere.

You can see it right here in your 352x480 and the blocks elsewhere. None of that is normal.

[churchie04]

I am wondering if it has to do with me using a composite to s-video cable. It's the only one i had laying around. I use it for playback from a laptop and have not problems whatsoever.

I think the next logical step is borrowing my brothers digital camcorder and just using it as an intermediary between my hi8 and adobe premiere.

[thecoalman]

I am wondering if it has to do with me using a composite to s-video cable.

If by that you mean some kind of adapter cable that has composite on one end and S-Video on the other then yea I'd look into getting a regular S-video or composite cable.

The AIW does excellent captures, from my short experience with it.

[churchie04]

I've done all of Lord Smurfs guides before. His even says to do 352x480, instead of full res.

[lordsmurf]

That moire pattern is induced by the image compression, should not be on the video itself.

[churchie04]

Well yeah, the moire pattern was only noticed once it was played on a tv. The blocks were on the computer.

[churchie04]

FIXED:

Well, sorry for wasteing everybody's time. Turns out that a cable good for watching movies off your laptop on your tv isn't good for captureing video using an old camcorder. I grabbed a high end cable off our Stand alone DVD player and all the jaggies and blockiness are history.

Thanks for all the help and effort. It's what makes this community great.

[thecoalman]

I've done all of Lord Smurfs guides before. His even says to do 352x480, instead of full res.

Resolution is not your trouble, again that is not normal under any circumstances Using a higher resolution won't make your captures worse, it may be uneeded but that's the extent of it.

Regardless it's evident in your other screenshots as well and that is not normal under any circumstances either.

[churchie04]

Thanks for all the help coalman.

I've got a very good quality capture now.

Is there a program i can use to swap the field order without reencoding?

Restream only takes demuxed files, anything that takes full .mpg?

[thecoalman]

Is there a program i can use to swap the field order without reencoding?

Why do you want to swap the field order? If your capping in MPEG just burn it to disc, should be the correct field order. If you editing it in womble just make sure that when you create the video that you have selected top field.

[junkmalle]

Turns out that a cable good for watching movies off your laptop on your tv isn't good for captureing video using an old camcorder. I grabbed a high end cable off our Stand alone DVD player and all the jaggies and blockiness are history.

I was going to tell you the cable couldn't possibly be the problem! Even now I don't see how a bad cable could lead to that sort of distortion.

[churchie04]

Ok. Once again thanks.