Track cut-offs, with TSCV and/or VCDImager Easy

[homerpez]

Sorry once again if this is an old question...

With any multi-track SVCD or VCD I do with TSCV (and before, with VCDIMager Easy), I have a problem.

When each track ends, it cuts off a fraction fo a second of both audio and video, then freezes, THEN plays the next track...

NERO behaives by playing a track to completion (no cut-off), then a SLIGHT pause, then the next track... so I know it can be done better.

I notice there is a setting in TSCV where it says it can "add 150 sectors between tracks"... will this solve the cut-off problem? Or will it just cut off still, and wait longer before the next track?

Any way to make it seamless?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-09-11 21:56:00 ]</font>

[homerpez]

Also... in TSCV, When the first MPEG plays, it stops there, and does not continue to the next track... but every track thereafter does.

Next/Prev work as they are supposed to, as does the numeric pad. Do I have to change "timeout" to something special?

the "150 sector" checkbox does not help the cutoff problem... any help is appreciated!

[homerpez]

Other people having similar problems:

www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=58383&forum=1

So I'm not the only person with this happening...

Anyone know how to fix?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-09-12 12:09:08 ]</font>

[hvr]

you may want to play around with the front / rear margin options introduced in 0.7.10...

try to set them to the values which are used for VCD's... this may improve your problem with your firmware...

[homerpez]

hvr: Where can I find out what those particular values should be?...

There is something to that effect in TSCV, but it doesn't say what the values really do (there are 3 boxes at the bottom of the same screen as the "150 Sector" checkbox)...

Is this what you mean? What are the VCD/SVCD standard? (I'm tired of making coasters to find out)!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-09-13 10:43:16 ]</font>

[hvr]

for IEC62107 compliant SVCD's the values should be both set to 0;

the default for VCD2.0 would have been 30 for the track front margin,
and 45 for the track rear margin setting; so set the values to the defaults for VCD2.0 in order get potentially more kompatible disc...

checking the leadout pause setting shouldn't harm... and may be usefull as well... (but it will affect only the last track)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hvr on 2001-09-13 15:33:38 ]</font>

[UsualNoise]

OK, so does this mean that since there are no options of this sort for VCDImager Easy I am out of luck? Should this be reported as a bug to the creator of VCDIE? My experience has been that the first and last second of an SVCD program are chopped off. (I'm using the lastest version of VCDIE, but have gotten the same result with VCDImagerGUI and older versions of VCDIE. Perhaps a bug with the underlying vcdimager.exe needs to be fixed for SVCDs.)

[dgraham]

Are all of you guys (and fems) using Nero to burn your SVCD files with? 'Cause, I encoded 3 files with BBMPEG and burned them with Nero, and the last second or 2 was cut off and some of the beginning (i think). So my question: maybe this isn't a VCDImager problem, maybe it's something in Nero when you try to burn more than 1 mpg.

I'm running the a demo version of Nero I download last week.

[vitualis]

If you use Nero to burn a multitrack VCD image in CUE/BIN format, it will crop off the last two seconds per track (Nero doesn't burn CUE/BIN images properly).

Regards.

[UsualNoise]

homerpez - I switched to using TSCV to see if it would help avoid that missing first/last second. I was able to fix the problem with TSCV by setting those three boxes at the bottom of the options screen to 150 each. By setting them ALL to 150 and NOT checking that box for 'leadout pause' or whatever.

Others - I don't believe this is a Nero problem, because I burned the cue/bin file using Nero both when using VCDImagerEasy (and having the problem) and when using TSCV (and not having the problem). As far as I can tell, VCDImagerEasy/GUI has a problem with offsets for the beginning and end of SVCD files.

My final question has to do with chapter settings in TSCV. Everything works fine *except* in the following case: I have two 22 minute files with a chapter every 5 minutes. However, when the file plays to completion instead of going to the next file it jumps back to the last chapter (20 minutes into the first file). I've looked at the TSCV settings and it looks like it should be going to the first chapter of the next movie; it's not, and I'm wondering if there is some other setting I'm missing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UsualNoise on 2001-09-13 21:09:51 ]</font>

[gallant1]

homeprez--I was just curious, are you still playing your burns on an Apex 500w? I never got my TSCV files to work on that player, although they work remarkably well on the Apex 1500 and the Apex 660.

[vitualis]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-13 21:07:51, UsualNoise wrote:
Others - I don't believe this is a Nero problem...</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

This particular thing may not be a Nero problem, but Nero definitely stuffs up CUE/BIN image burns. There is an article on the VCDImager website that details exactly what Nero stuffs up.

Regards.

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-13 21:07:51, UsualNoise wrote:
I've looked at the TSCV settings and it looks like it should be going to the first chapter of the next movie; it's not, and I'm wondering if there is some other setting I'm missing.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I think (don't quote me, I'm no expert), you need to not only select the next movie under "NEXT", but also for "TIMEOUT". Someone told me to do this, and it solved this sort of problem...

[UsualNoise]

Bingo. I set a bunch of those drop down boxes (next, timeout, etc.) to the beginning of the next movie and it worked perfectly. Thanks for the assistance; the ttools forum (www.ttool.de) was also pretty helpful in this regard.

I can now say I have no problems creating SVCDs from television programs and getting them to play with no problems (including chapters and FF/REW) on my Apex 500-W. Plus, the quality is great. Yippee!

[homerpez]

Now I'm worried, as I still am on my Apex 500W

I tried setting the 3 boxes to "150" each, it only lengthened the gap until the next clip plays. And it still froze the end of each movie in the last secind, every time.

So, I'm just going to go ahead and ask a different question (apparently something nuts with my burner, burning program, or something)...

NEW QUESTION: How can I add "blank" video/audio data to the end of a track? Is there some easy trick I can use (i.e. will editing my audio source with an added second of silence, merged with a video track of shorter length work)?

This is driving me insane...

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-15 18:01:56, homerpez wrote:
NEW QUESTION: How can I add "blank" video/audio data to the end of a track? Is there some easy trick I can use (i.e. will editing my audio source with an added second of silence, merged with a video track of shorter length work)?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I should clarify, I mean in encoding/multiplexing, not TSCV... I'm thinking maybe making audio longer than video will create blank black frames?... or no?

[UsualNoise]

homerpez - I don't really have an answer for you (other than trying it in TSCV with that box for lead pause or whatever checked instead of unchecked), but you can save yourself some CDs by mounting the cue/bin file on a virtual drive (using Daemon-tools in the Tools section of this site) and then playing the virtual disc in WinDVD, or some other software DVD/SVCD player. At least this way you'll be able to check out the behavior without burning a physical CD everytime you change an option; I found that WinDVD approximates pretty closely what happens on the Apex 500-W, except for some minor differences.

[homerpez]

I've discovered something (by the way, thanks for the Daemon tools tip)...

This may have more to do with TMPGEnc's handling of WAV audio (or perhaps frameserving)...

I de-multiplexed the source MPEG's and lo and behold... it sliced off some of the audio from each track!

So, my Apex would be freezing at the end frame, but normally this would be the last frame I selected (black frame, no sound). The only reason I'm noticing this is because the audio is a fraction of a second shorter than video (so video is seen freezing).

I've discovered also if I dump the audio selection to WAV (adding a couple seconds vs. my video), and create 1-2 seconds of silence at the end, when I multiplex a blank (black) screen IS created. So maybe this is the solution?

[homerpez]

All right. Now, I'm mad.

I'v edited and re-edited the audio stream to make it longer, and it does NOT fix the problem. With PBC on or off, it still freezes the last second well into the movie (despite the extended audio making the clip longer)...

WHAT IS GOING ON?!!??!?!

I've encoded properly. I've run the image through Daemon tools, and played with WinDVD. It plays perfectly. I've made every possible type of SVCD image using TSCV. I've burned with cdrwin (the way I'm supposed to). Yet I seem to be the only one who still has this problem!

I'm !@#$%^& cursed.

[acenuts]

homepez- don't worry I also have this problem and done the same exact things.

What's weird is that I can SOMETIMES get a movie from VCDImager w/ out the end seconds being cut off. Very rare though. 1 out of 8.

As for checking the .bin's, I've found that PowerDVD 3 is more accurate than WinDVD in showing what will happen to my Apex AD-600A.

I think next time I'll just increase the ends in DVD2AVI, maybe that will work?

[UsualNoise]

I haven't really solved this either; my 'solution' is to record an extra couple seconds in the original capture. Then, when it ends up freezing/cutting something off, it's unimportant stuff I didn't want anyway. Not a very elegant solution, but that's what I've been doing for a while.

[homerpez]

I'm beginning to wonder (and this is yet untested)...

What does everyone choose for the "Wait" option under TSCV?

The reason I ask is I read the VCDImager definitions of "Loop wait", "wait", "return", etc... and I found that "wait" defines a pause after a track (or loop) has finished playing.

The default for VCDImager by itself is "0" (none, or slight pause between tracks). TSCV has "1" defined for any tracks added to the "CD" layout. Could this be my whole problem?

Is it something just this silly and stupid? I guess I'll find out when I get home to my burner. Make some more coasters.

[homerpez]

...Which I have jus made another.

"Wait" only lessens the gap after the freeze, doesn't prevent the freeze from happening.

Does anyone know WHY VCDImager, which is supposed to create the "perfect" disc image, is so much worse at this particular thing than NERO?

Is there nothing that "does it all"?

I give up.

[acenuts]

The new VCDImager Easy is out. Maybe this one is it. If you guys find the correct settings please post. I'll do the same.

[vitualis]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-18 01:21:58, homerpez wrote:
...Which I have jus made another.

"Wait" only lessens the gap after the freeze, doesn't prevent the freeze from happening.

Does anyone know WHY VCDImager, which is supposed to create the "perfect" disc image, is so much worse at this particular thing than NERO?

Is there nothing that "does it all"?

I give up.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

VCDImager does create perfect images. I strongly suggest that there is something wrong with the way the XML is authored -- you using a GUI rather than editing the XML itself isn't helping.

If you post the actual contents of the XML file (or mail it to me), I'll help you through it.

Regards.

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-18 07:47:25, vitualis wrote:
VCDImager does create perfect images. I strongly suggest that there is something wrong with the way the XML is authored -- you using a GUI rather than editing the XML itself isn't helping.

If you post the actual contents of the XML file (or mail it to me), I'll help you through it.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Will do, though I've already noticed something...

When "Wait" is changed under "Menu", it does not change that value in the XML...

I'll send it your way, thanks...

[acenuts]

I'm still stuck on this problem. Has anyone found the correct settings for Track In, Pregap, Leadout pause, etc. in TSCV or VCDImager Easy?

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-20 03:55:35, acenuts wrote:
I'm still stuck on this problem. Has anyone found the correct settings for Track In, Pregap, Leadout pause, etc. in TSCV or VCDImager Easy?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

vitualis has sent me a truckload of information. Basically, those track gaps won't help you anyway. It's something in the was TSCV handles the XML for a "simple" multi-track.

It uses the "selection" tag instead of what it's supposed to, "playlist". Also it adds things such as "timeout", "default", etc. which do not apply to a plain multi-track.

To make a long story short, "selection" tag works, but is made for chaptering (1 movie, specified chapters within). "playlist" is for simple multi-track, with no (or minimal) gaps.

When I work out the kinks in my script, I will post what I changed to get it working here. Or, if virtualis wants to...

[homerpez]

OK EVERYONE... LOOK ALIVE! {BUMP}!

I have now tried nearly everything I cna think of (and wasted dozens of CD's.

Here is where I stand in this problem, and I know someone has the answer somewhere.

I have tried nearly every TSCV setting. Updating scan offsets, not updating.

I have tried using the default XML file, and I have tried virtualis's idea of changing it to a simple "playlist" set of tags instead.

THE RESULT IS THE SAME.

Every time I play a track on the standalone, it cuts off the last 1-2 seconds, freezes, then goes on to the next track.

The disc image, when played on the PC on WinDVD (using Daemon Tools, as "virtual" CD-Rom playing the "cue&quot, works perfectly. No cut-off, everything tracks through and works as advertised.

Then I burn the same exact "cue" file with CDRWin, and it cuts off on the player.

Someone MUST know the answer. Something to do with VCDImager? Something to do with burning? WHAT? (I'm losing it!)