PERFECT SVCD IN ONE HOUR without TMPGenc

[wipeout]

A former TMPGenc user now has jump ship to Mainconcept

Tools needed

Virtual Dub--for Frameserving if needed and convert avi to wav

AC3decode 821---for wavs in vitural dub that have to be direct stream. (ie. tag 2000).

MainConcept 1.31

First, strip wav from avi. If you cannot do full processing, strip it direct stream then convert to full wav with AC3decode 821.

Second, use MainConcept. Use Virtualdub frameserver to fix aspect ratio, color, or other issues. You need to calculate Bit rate average for VBR processing so your file is not too big for the disk.

One hour....perfect....much better than TMPGenc. Beautiful quality...no blocks, noise, very very sharp....on a duron 1.2

No problems with audio sync...do not use windows media player...it audio syncs...but svcd plays great.

[suerpflysocal]

i also like mainconcept but i don't understand the need to frameserve. it seems it can work standalone. what is the purpose of frameserving? You can resize with main concept directly. Also, great for DV because it has a built in DV codec.

[freak_in_cage_10k]

Hi M8,

i use DVD2SVCD and CCE 2.50, it takes me about 10 hours in tottal to encode a movie and produce high quality SVCDs, are you saying (sorry but i am a relative noobee)) that i could produce SVCDs of the same if not better quality with MainConcept 1.31??

thanks man!

[defense]

Hi M8,

i use DVD2SVCD and CCE 2.50, it takes me about 10 hours in tottal to encode a movie and produce high quality SVCDs, are you saying (sorry but i am a relative noobee)) that i could produce SVCDs of the same if not better quality with MainConcept 1.31??

thanks man!

Just some advice, don't use CCE for SVCD's. Use TMPG. CCE works flawlessly for DVD, but TMPG works flawlessly with SVCD's, even more so then CCE.

[Vejita-sama]

Huh?!? CCE encodes to either MPEG1 or MPEG2. MPEG2 is MPEG2, be it DVD, VCD, SVCD or some hybrid. Why do you say that CCE does a good job with DVD (MPEG2 at 720x480,352x480 or 352x240) but doesn't do a good job with SVCD (MPEG at 480x480)???

I use CCE for all my MPEG2 encoding, no problems. As for speed. That's mostly CPU dependant.

[wipeout]

where in mainconcept can you change the aspect ratio....or for that matter anything else like contract, brightness...ect.

It would be nice to have them features. I have to frameserve in virtual dub.

AS FAR AS SVCD GOES....MAINCONCEPT ROCKS. PERIOD. MUCH BETTER THAN TMPGENC...(not that tmpgenc is bad.....its actually very good.....mainconcept is better in only one hour.

[thefox149]

How does it produce the same results/better after 1 hour as opposed to 10hrs in tmpgenc???........ I might be wrong here there is something a little comforting knowing that the program is going thru every single frame......looking to optimise the settings and quality....as opposed to some form of fast motion search my result are fantastic on Tmpgenc with motion search set to high.....more info required

I mean I would be willing to try it out....can someone out ther do some comparisons .....someone who would give an unbiased view.....price wise they are similar arn't they??

[defense]

Huh?!? CCE encodes to either MPEG1 or MPEG2. MPEG2 is MPEG2, be it DVD, VCD, SVCD or some hybrid. Why do you say that CCE does a good job with DVD (MPEG2 at 720x480,352x480 or 352x240) but doesn't do a good job with SVCD (MPEG at 480x480)???

I use CCE for all my MPEG2 encoding, no problems. As for speed. That's mostly CPU dependant.

I won't go into great detail here, you should research it for yourself. I will say that it is well-known that CCE is unparalleled when it comes to MPEG2. I use nothing but CCE for DVD. However, when it comes to MPEG1, of course it ENCODES them, several people on this thread alone say they use CCE. I never said it DIDN'T encode MPEG-1. What I said is that TMPGenc does a better job. I am also referring to SVCD. Whether you consider it MPEG1 or MPEG2, the quality is better with TMPGenc, then with CCE for VCD/SVCD. You will get better quality, and overall better results with TMPGenc when doing MPEG1 or SVCD. Do some research and ask some of the more reputable posters/experts on this forum, and see what they tell you. If your quality is great using CCE, then continue to use it. I have both programs, and when I do SVCD I always use TMPGenc. I can say one thing..with ALL of the SVCD's I have made, noone I know can tell the difference between the original or the backup. The only reason I don't make more SVCD then DVD is because I put them on TWO CD-R's, and I prefer 1 DVD-R.

[defense]

How does it produce the same results/better after 1 hour as opposed to 10hrs in tmpgenc???........ I might be wrong here there is something a little comforting knowing that the program is going thru every single frame......looking to optimise the settings and quality....as opposed to some form of fast motion search my result are fantastic on Tmpgenc with motion search set to high.....more info required

That theory doesn't hold much weight. It sounds good to say, and looks good on paper, but it basically means zilch. It's like saying because a box is bigger for an X-MAS gift, that means it must be better. CCE is an entirely different program then TMPG, and much more complex, sophisticated, and professional. The DVD quality you get by encoding with CCE is unparalled. I can backup an entire DVD movie with 1 PASS VBR in less then 2 hours. I use 2 pass VBR if there are many action scenes. The quality is phenomenal and it can't be deciphered by others I have asked, between the original and the backup. As far as VCD/SVCD goes, TMPG happens to do a better job overall.

Yes, even a program that cost a fraction of another, can still do things better, and this is one example. It's really all about what works for you. As far as your "time" comparasion, look at the DVD2ONE thread and see how many satisfied people claim they can see NO noticeable difference between their original and their 30 minute transcoded backups. It all boils down to preference, but I will always use TMPG for VCD/SVCD, while I will use CCE for DVD.

[thefox149]

I suppose that is true defense....length of encode should not matter but end result does....

but are we talkin main concept here or Cinema Craft ....I was refer to

Tmpgen vs Main concept (is main concept from the same makers of CC???)

I will be conducting frame examples and postin them on this thread.....

Based on the Two towers

Here are the specs

ripped 2nd vob from two towers dvd saved as avi in virtual dub mpeg2 mod using picvideo mjpeg set to highest fast re-compress

Then converted using the SVCD standards with a 2 pass variable bitrate motion set to high quality.....we will see....and comment ...how's that sound???

[wipeout]

hmmm....in regards to the last statement that longer is better....

Well, I give you a paint brush and a can of paint.

I will use my 135 psi air compressor and HVLP paint gun....I be done faster and better.

Longer is not better......well, at least in creating SVCD.

[SaSi]

I would agree that longer encode times is not better when comparing different programs. Even different parameters on a single encoder may result in longer times but not better result (neccecarily). For example, in many cases CCE will not produce better results with 5 passes, but it will certainly take more time.

As for MainConcept, my feelings are mixed. I have tried it for a week and bought it and now I can say I may have regretted it. The good thing is that it can be fast (depending on the settings). The bad thing is it does not have the VERY useful options Tmpgenc has (like centering a widescreen movie in a 4:3 frame, and many others.

I could live with that but the BAD thing about it is it is not predictable. You may select VBR compression with 4kbps average and it will produce 6kbps average. After I read the manual, I tweaked the advanced settings to improve quality and reduce bitrate and managed to "compress" a 5Gb video stream into 9Gb

It may well be that I have not yet mastered it's tricks and I will keep on trying (after all I cashed 150euro for it). But in the meantime, I use Tmpgenc when I need high quality and versatility. It takes time, but my PC doesn't have to sleep at night and it is in a different room anyhow

[wipeout]

I understand that mainconcept is not the best. Would be nice if they had the same goodies like TMPGenc.

For your issues: Use Virtual dub Frameserver to set the widescreen. Frameserver is good anyway as a precaution for bad frames.....so you should use it anyway.

For the Size, use Tmpgenc to calculate the Constant Bit rate to fit on a cd. Then used that number for your average bit rate on VBR in mainconcept. Set min to 300, max to 2420.

Works everytime.....

Also mainconcept works great for 23.97 with 3:2 or 2:3 pulldown. No fast forward motion junk during the playback

The difference for me is no overnight encoding....and that the picture quality is excellent.

[Nelson37]

In reply to the CCE - SVCD question - First, you appear to be confusing MPEG-1 and SVCD. SVCD is not CONSIDERED MPEG-1 or 2, it MUST BE Mpeg-2. The general consensus (and my own opinion) is that CCE can give better quality, and is certainly faster, than TMPGenc. TMPGenc has more options, however; and is superior on low-bitrate MPEG-1.

As far as encoding time goes, while many options which give better quality also take longer, there is no direct correlation between encoding time and quality.

[mh2360]

Hi M8,

i use DVD2SVCD and CCE 2.50, it takes me about 10 hours in tottal to encode a movie and produce high quality SVCDs, are you saying (sorry but i am a relative noobee)) that i could produce SVCDs of the same if not better quality with MainConcept 1.31??

thanks man!

10 hours with a 2000+?, i have 1800+ Athlon XP running at 1.56 gig and it takes a lot less time than that. How many passes you doing?

[jolo]

This string has gotten into a lot of stuff about CCE versus TMPG, but it started about Mainconcept, and I'd really like to hear more about. I've read lots of positive things about on this forum and would like to try it myself.
For me, saving hours and hours of encoding time is a BIG benefit. Same quality in a fraction of the time is worth an awful lot, PC time, wear and tear on the PC would be great. If there is a batch processor in Mainconcept, it would be great to do several encoding jobs over night or even trying different settings on the same avi file.


wipeout, Could you answer a few questions about Mainconcept for me ?

1. Is the demo fully functional ? Is it one of the 5 minute things ? It appears that it leaves some icon on your output ? Please let me know, I hate wasting time with limited demos.

2. It sounds like you extract the audio using Vdub first, like I do using TMPG. I usually use Toolame Gui first, then feed TMPG a compressed MP2 file for the audio. Does that sound reasonable for Mainconcept ?

3. I would want to create compliant MPEG-2 files that I can burn in Nero and play on my stand alone DVD player. Have you tried it ?

4. If you have used VBR with Mainconcept, I assume it produces compliant MPEG-2 files ? Do you know if they run better or worse on standalone DVD players ?

5. Do you do multiple pass encoding ? Is there any reason to do that ?

6. Are there any guides for Mainconcept that you use ?

7. Would you know if they give any flexibility on the $150 price tag ? Competative upgrades, student discounts or even VCDHELP discounts ?

Thanks,

Jon[/list]

[thefox149]

I have conducted some trials with main concept (full not demo....don't ask how) vs tmpgc ....and I am quite impressed ...in terms of speed it is vastly superior....even with all setting to optimise the quality.....
Tmpgenc has the more functions ....especially the cropping ...

But I am unable to provide an accurate comparison in terms of quaity......cause I don't really now how to go about givin it ......but I like what main has to offer.........still though like a season pro Tmgenc is solid like a rock ...and will be sticking with it until someone convinces me and some guidees pop up on this site

[jolo]

Thank you thefox149,

It is so good not hear words like, "this is trash", "this is the best".

This is how it sounds to me:

The Mainconcept and Tmpgenc will give aboout equivelent quality from a practical point of view.

TMPGenc has a lot more features and I'm sure if I had Mainconcept, I wouldstill bew using TMPG, especially for some toough cases and especially for the MPEG tools part.

The big deal here is the speed and if I can get a quality SVCD, that I can burn in Nero and will play on my stand-alone DVD players in 1 to 2 hours, I WANT IT !! The time would make a big difference for me and I'm a licensed user of TMPG Plus, so that's not going anywhere.

Does anyone know if there are any ways to get Mainconcept encoder for less than they're retail price of $150.00. If you have Adobe Premier, it is $50. Apparently it is also sold via Adobe's web site as well.

Thanks,

Jon

[thefox149]

I am not an advocate for warez.....but if you look hard enough...some people are able to find what there looking for......maybe I am one of them maybe I am not.....



Wipeout ...you have used both encoders can you give some specs or examples or even a guide to use it....maybe i am not using it they way it is intended....if I can crop ...then I would be most happy...are there any cropping functions in vdub that I am not aware of ....

[jolo]

thefox149,

I'm not taking offense on your mention of warez. I am not either a fan of warez.

I was looking for legitimate ways to get discounts on MainConcept. I have on products like LSX, other give discounts for individual home users, there are student discounts on may products. Sometimes the same products are "OEMed", by another company, but they are the same as the original.

Jon

[hwoodwar]

Jolo:

I have been looking at MainConcept also. I downloaded the demo last night. You asked wether the demo version of MainConcept was time limited. It doesn't mention that on their website. It does mention, and I have observed a watermark on the files produced by the demo in the uppper left corner of the screen. Heck, I barely notice it, on my 27 inch TV about thirty percent of it is hidden by the overscan area.

Preliminary, tests for what I have been doing (capturing VHS tapes and cable TV to an XCVD or XSVCD format depending upon how you look at it) I was able to create a compliant CVD profile in MainConcept and encode in about the same time it took to capture from TV. I took the same AVI and created my normal 2-pass XCVD with TMPGenc. There is no significant difference and the TMPGenc version took about two hours twenty minutes to encode (vice 45 minutes for MainConcept.)

I did have to change the field order, MainConcept wanted to use "bottom first". With that I got motion affects. After I changed it to "top first" the motion affects went away.

I scanned through the MainConcept discussion forum and at one point one of the administrators stated that they were working on a 2-Pass VBR and it should be implemented in version 1.3 or 1.4 (at that time 1.3 was not yet available), because of this I may try to wait for version 1.4.

Like you, the main thing I am concerned about is price (I'm out of work, at the moment.) I'm trying to decide between MainConcept and CCE-Lite, since CCE is rated well, and the lite version is only $50 more than MainConcept.



HaroldW
Addicted to the Internet

[wipeout]

If you want to save money, use TMPGenc....

For SVCD....its not DVD....so dont kill yourself trying to get the best.

Buy a faster processor rather than a faster program....

Mainconcept and CCE are not worth the money until they are what I call automatic (like how a video camera autofocuses).

Tmpgenc is worth the price.

[Faceman101]

Too many people stating opinions as facts. If encoded right, you can not tell the difference between a TMPGEnc SVCD and a CCE SVCD. Both are very good. Both do DVD video great. Anything else is opinion.

I haven't tried Mainconcept at all, but if I see it around I'll give it a try.

[jolo]

Good point about some of us puttings opinions in as facts !! There is such emotion which surronds the encoding techniques and tools that work for people.

I've been doing the Mainconcept demo and, I have having problems with some of their features noit working. It looks like others on their forum are struggling with that as well.

Biggest problems for me are:
There is a great feature in their latest version where you can click on a disk limit and then put the mb limit on which you want your encoded file to be closed and a new one opened up. Problem is that it does not work for me, the encoding just stops, waiting for me to tell it something, I think, when it fills up a file. Maincept, doew create a new file to load encoding results, but leaves it blank and doesn't do anywhere.

There is no full screen(keep aspect ratio), selection in Mainconcept, so you might get the stretched out screen look when accepting the default 4 x 3. They do have a 2,2,1 option, but for some reason it is greyed out for me. A problem someone else noticed on their forum.

There are no guides on their website, just their documentation, which I find not helpful with these matters. It assumes that everything works fine.

The forum appears to be week. Some people have complained about the lack of responsiveness of the Mainconcept staff since the start of the new year. Also, users don't seem to help each other out like they do here. It looks like they wait for a Mainconcept staffer to answer, which must have slowed down recently.

I have put two e-mails into their tech support and got the first reply, but not the second. The first reply was not helpful, since there wa a lack of awareness of the problems that are there regarding SVCD.

To me, it looks like VCD works well, but I rarely encode for VCD, but for SVCD, there appears that there are a lot of bugs, and their support is shaky.

I really want mainconcept to work and if I can get past the bugs and it saves me hours and hours of computer time, that does translate it is well worth it.

Also, not to knock any TMPG, but I have had problems cutting MPEG-2 files which TMPG has encoded, with my PC freezing. Wrote to their tech support twice and it appears that they have some english challenges. The answer they gave me was cryptic, said that they were unaware of the freezing problem. The second post reply you must see, here it is.
The recommended one is a codec of Ligos and Sony.
(It is easy to obtain and the cheap one is Cyberlink. )
Sony is not obtained easily. "

[jolo]

Warning aboout Mainconcept usage !!

I just saw a posting on MC's forum stating that it is not supported for DirectX 9.0, only up to DirectX 8.1. This could be why I am having so many problems with it, especially the file splitter. I am waiting for support to return my call or answer my support e-mails or answer my forum postings.

Jon

[defense]

Too many people stating opinions as facts. If encoded right, you can not tell the difference between a TMPGEnc SVCD and a CCE SVCD. Both are very good. Both do DVD video great. Anything else is opinion.

I haven't tried Mainconcept at all, but if I see it around I'll give it a try.

I agree too many people state opinions as facts, just look at how many people barely tested 1 dvd with DVD2ONE and thought it was the greatest thing since the microwave. Now look at that thread, it's as dead as Elvis! One thing I don't do is state facts as opinions. I base my facts on MUCH research, and MANY tests. That is why your statement of TMPGEnc encoding DVD as well as CCE is not accurate.

TMPGenc is a great program as I mentioned above, but when it comes to DVD, CCE is still the best option out there. I have tested TMPGenc for DVD on the same movies as CCE, and movies with high action scenes, which are the majority of "action" films, TMPGenc has more artifacts and pixelation at certain points. I have read many posts with people complaning about TMPGenc quality and others saying that you get what you pay for. I have NEVER read a post regarding CCE and quality. And that is what I look for..."consistency." I don't care about certain DVD's playing on certain players, ..I want all DVD's, playing on MOST players, and with the same quality and consistency.

As far as SVCD goes, I am slowly converting all of my SVCD's to DVD, but I can honestly say that I have never noticed any quality issue or pixelation when doing SVCD with TMPGenc. Now, as far as you or anyone else goes, I can't speak for your backups. If TMPGenc works as good as CCE for DVD, then that's great. You have two programs that work equally as well.

I just know that I will never do a DVD backup with TMPGenc, because my tests and research gave me enough information to know that CCE is incomparable. I guess this original thread was for "mainconcept" so I don't want to disrespect the author and continue to post about CCE and TMPGenc, I was just trying to give some valuable info to another poster early on. As far as mainconcept goes, I haven't tried it, and have no need to, but I hope it works out for many.

[VidGuy]

If you want to try a test between encoders - try any movie that has fast flickering lights.

Personally, I use the George Pal "Time Machine" movie, which the time machine is coming out of the lava tube - the screen flickers like crazy.

I have not done a recent test, but a year ago - TMPGEnc could not encode this segment without macroblocks, while CCE could. Obviously, not tried main concept, but the flickering light thing is a fairly severe test., and will separate the men from the boys on the encoding front - and it's a test that doesn't really require a subjective opionion. The macroblocks are very visible........

[thefox149]

Well reading all this is an eye opener.....If your result works well for you then you should stick to it. Ultimatly everyone is trying to achieve the same results.....Which is Fantastic encodes.

As for tmpgenc vs cce that arguement seems never to resolved around these parts......

But as for mainconcept it is definatly a program to watch ,.....remeber it is still in it's infancy ...I am sure that the current version 1.31 is ony one in a long line of programs that will lead the way......hopefully the mainconcept developers take the iniative and improve the functionality of the app....it may be the happy ground between Tmpgenc & CCE...I am sure when mainconcept 2.5 comes around we will be singing a different note....maybe not.......not to add fuel to the fire.....There are other programs that encode avi files very quickly to the SVCD format such as the Ulead video studio .....although the colour looked gloosy and lifeless....which is why I stuck to Tmpgenc.......

[paulgab]

Wow! I cant beleive what I saw....it seems that the author of this thread has very valid reason to say this:

"A former TMPGenc user now has jump ship to Mainconcept"

I'm a fan of TMPGenc, I used it in all my encoded movies and still using it on my current projects. But while using TMPGenc, I'm also trying CCE and MC. Cant get CCE work on my rig, not familiar w/ it, when trying to encode somethin there's an error (w/c I posted and no one has answered )

Anyhow, I captured a high motion scene in the Star Wars II using PICVideo MJPEG, 20, frameserve from VDub then encode it using TMPG and MC into SVCD (also tried CVD). Result, there's not much difference in quality but my eyes dictates that MC is less blocky than TMPG specially in the very high motion scene portion, even w/ a higher bitrate setting in TMPG didnt match the quality of MC. (cant believe this happening w/ my favrt encoder)

Settings used:

TMPG - CQ, 4000max 300min, 75
2P VBR, 4000max 2600ave 300min

MC - 1P VBR, 4000max 2600ave 300min
1P VBR, 4000max 2500ave 1800min

I'm gonna try more test w/ MC.

[Sonic21]

There is a good review of encoders here http://www.tecoltd.com/enctest/enctest.htm

complete with sample images and relevant links.