800 mb on a 700 mb cd?

[MLwarrior@aol.com]

I know it's possible to burn 800 mb worth of info on a 80 min (700 mb) cd. I've done it before. I used VCDeasy to burn 802 mb to a 700 mb cd with NO problems. I need to burn a 800 mb DIVx avi onto a cd and I can't use VCDeasy for that (vcd only works with mpg and mpeg). I've been trying to do it with other programs, and even the buring program that VCDeasy uses (cdrdao). Everytime I try I get error messeges or the cd won't play. I'm using the EXACT same cdr drive and the EXACT same type of cdr cds (they're even from the same package). Can anybody help me out? I know it's possible, but how?

[Teshia]

VCDEasy can do that with 800 MB of MPEGs when it's making a VCD. The same doesn't apply to things that aren't VCDs, such as AVIs for example. In those cases, 700 MB is 700 MB. If you're making VCDs, that's a different thing.

[snowmoon]

It doesn't work that way.

(s)VCD's can hold that much more data becasue the .mpg stream has it's own built in safeguards against corruption. They use MODE 2 cd sectors that sacrifice data integrity for space.

Iso 9660 formatting requires that DATA including .avi's be written with MODE 1 sectors that have full error checking and correction.

So it's just not possible, and if it were it would not be a good idea since .avi's are just not redundant enough to survive corruption.

[MLwarrior@aol.com]

Yeah, I was thinking that it maybe had somthing to do with the fact that the mpg was burned differently. Well, I guess I'll just have to go buy some 800 mb disks. Thank you for you help, though!

[smurf]

800mb vcd on a 700mb cd

900mb vcd on a 800mb cd

1000mb vcd on a 900mb cd

can it be possible ???, or maybe the 2 first steps, or, ???

[vitualis]

You can work out disc capacity yourself...

Mode2 Form2 sectors (i.e., as used for the mpeg tracks on S/VCDs) = 2324 bytes of user data per sector.

Mode1 or Mode2 Form1 sectors (i.e., CD-ROMs) = 2048 bytes of user data per sector.

74 min CD = 333 000 sectors
80 min CD = 360 000 sectors
90 min CD = 405 000 sectors
99 min CD = 445 500 sectors

Regards.

[southside97]

You know, I new to (S)VCD but I've managed to help myself out and got that hang of things. I was so happy when I captured and encoded my first svcd. But what suprised me is that I wasn't sure if the mpeg file would burn on the disk correctly using Nero because the filesize was over 826mb. I was like, man that's too big even though in Tmpeg I selected the option of using 100% of my cd space and after it finished, it came out to 826mb. I said to myself, well, if how do I know if it will or will not work if I don't try. So I just burned it using Nero with a 700mb cdr WITHOUT overburn and it burned correctly without any errors. I was surprised since I read some post where people only burn no more than 806 or 810mb or 815mb. Here I am burning 826mb and my overburn option off. I was so happy and it even played correctly in my standalone vcd player. The cdr I bought was like 100 cds for like 10 bucks, the cheap kind with no name brand. I should have bought more but the sale was like 5 months ago and I only bought one case. Well, I think I'm the only one who burns at least a 826mb file... maybe there are others out there that can burn more on a 700mb/80min cdr... just my 2 cents....

[vitualis]

If your file really is that big (i.e., it is not a file size reporting error), then you definitely did overburn, despite what Nero says/thinks.

On 80min/700 MB media, the max. capacity you can have without overburning is approx. 796 MB. Again, if you do the maths, it is clear.

This has been demonstrated by myself a number of times with my old 2x burner that will not overburn.

Regards.

[epo]

... except, when it is 826,000,000 bytes not 826 MB. ???

[vitualis]

Good point... but Windows does actually report "real" megabytes (i.e., 10^20 bytes).

Regards.

[epo]

So does Windows, but not Nero

[Wackyd]

I have a queston for the guy that uses vcdeasy?? I also use vcdeasy to burn mpeg 2 files. Everyone says you get burn 800 mb on a 700 mb cd. I can never do that though. Whenver I try to burn a file that's 738 mb the approx size goes red like it's invalid and I burn it and i won't play. Now I've tried 650 mb and it let's me. Why is it it won't let me burn a file that big on to a 80 min cdr?

[snowmoon]

Don't double post... please... it just makes it harder to respond.

[Nelson37]

I regularly burn bin files of 814 MB (as reported by windows) without using overburn. I mux to 796 max with BBmpeg, then image with VCDimager which gives me the 814 MB file. Anything over that triggers overburn in Nero, though I have gone up to 830 or so with no problems, on good quality disks.

[vitualis]

I regularly burn bin files of 814 MB (as reported by windows) without using overburn. I mux to 796 max with BBmpeg, then image with VCDimager which gives me the 814 MB file. Anything over that triggers overburn in Nero, though I have gone up to 830 or so with no problems, on good quality disks.

Yes, but the point is that you can't burn an MPEG file over 796 MB without overburning!!

VCDImager creates the raw image (i.e., ??2352 bytes per sector total). Of the TOTAL number of bytes per sector, you only get 2324 bytes of USER DATA.

Thus, the CUE/BIN file will be slightly bigger.

Regards.

[mikk]

I have heard of people burning data CDs with VCD capacities, using only normal discs. The thing is they managed to make discs with no error protection. This makes it HIGHLY unrealiable, and it's not within standards.

Yes, but the point is that you can't burn an MPEG file over 796 MB without overburning!!

This not correct!



With SVCD & VCD a 800mB mpg will fit on a 700MB CD without overburning.

Ive done it over 100 times!!

[vitualis]

I stand by 796 MB... Work out the maths!

My old 2x burner that won't overburn also agrees with this figure!

The usual 80min CDs I have (Kodaks) actually only contains 79:57:74 of user data (79min, 57sec, 74 frames).

Even assuming 80min capacity, that's 360 000 sectors.

You will loose approx. 10s (750 sectors) in overhead minimum (6 seconds minimum track1, 2 seconds of lead in and 2 seconds of lead out for one video track).

2324 bytes per sector of user data in MODE2 Form2.

= 797 MB (assuming full 80min capacity)

Minus a few seconds (as 80min discs don't usually actually contain 80min worths of sectors and some additional overhead) --> 796 MB.



Regards.

Vitualis- Like I said Ive done the same method over 100 times.

Forget the maths

Muxing with BBmpeg seting the cut point at 799 megs
Next VCDeasy
Next CDRwin or Nero
And my good old Teac 4x burner does it everytime without overburning! 8)

[vitualis]

Exactly how do you know that your drive isn't overburning??

Furthermore, exactly how do you know how many sectors are on your disc image??

Ignoring the maths is like closing you eyes and trusting a black box.

If you can find a mistake with my maths please point it out. You will not find a mistake though.

Make the CUE/BIN image if you want then use a tool to actually count the number of sectors. Anything over a total of 360,000 = overburning. (actually, the sector count is a little bit less as I mentioned previously).

The max. size is about 796 MB.

Regards.

Exactly how do you know that your drive isn't overburning??

Because nero always asks me if I want to overburn

Furthermore, exactly how do you know how many sectors are on your disc image??

Didnt look but if you are really interested I´ll look when I get home from work.

Ignoring the maths is like closing you eyes and trusting a black box.

To be honest I had no idea more than 360,000 sectors was overburning, like i said I relied on Nero telling me & CDRwin questions anything over 74mins.

If you can find a mistake with my maths please point it out. You will not find a mistake though.

Im not disputing your maths I´m just saying that with Nero 5.5 & My burner(TEAC 540) & The CD`s I use (Fuji, platinum, silver circle, tevion, traxdata etc) I can burn 800megs without overburning. With over burning depending on the make of CD I get much more......

for example with Fuji I can overburn much more the the Platinum CD`s

[vitualis]

I personally don't really trust how smart Nero is but as you said, CDRWin buzzes you for anything over 74min (not 80min).

However, have a look at how many sectors CDRWin reckons are in the image next time. If it is over 360,000 (80min 0sec 0sectors), it is definitely overburning.

As I stated before, I have an old 2x burner that will not overburn. 796 MB is definitely the cut off. If I force the burner, it will simply stop burning at exactly the supposed end of the disc (i.e., 79:57:74 usually). Not necessarily a problem with a DAO burn, but it give a good indication at exactly the limit between normal burning and "overburning".

This is all rather academic though in this age of modern burners I'm sure you'll agree. You can realistically burn up to about 1 min over reasonably safely with most media.

Regards.