VCD Quality

[Josh909]

I am using EasyCD Creator Deluxe version to burn my VCDs. I am using TMPGENC V2.5 also to convert files. I am also a novice at this, however my first VCD burn was successful. However, it seems the quality of the VCD is not good. There is much "jerky" and "blurring" during the film...is there a way to avoid this? Just seem the quality is not there...Any suggestions/help is much appreciated. I have listed my settings when I do the conversion - they are just the default config for PAL.

Video setting:
PAL 4:3 625line;
frame rate=25fps;
stream type=MPEG1 video;
rate control mode=CBR;
bitrate=1150;
motion search pos=normal

Advanced setting :
video source type=non-interlaced (progressive)
field order=bottom field first (field b)
Source aspect ratio=4:3 625 line (PAL, 704x576)
video arrange method=full screen (keep aspect ratio)

Audio:
stream rate=MPEG1 Audio layer 2
Sampling freq=44100
Channel mode=stereo
bitrate=192

[hwoodwar]

Josh909:

There are multiple TMPGenc templates in the tools section you can try out. At least one says it produces no macroblocks. I have never found any VCD templates that produce no macroblocks on my captures. I just about gave up on "VCD" format after I bought some commercial VCD's and they weren't all that great a quality. I encode to "VCD" now only for older tapes, that the tapes themselves are not really high quality images. I primarily encode to "CVD" format.

If you want to try changing settings on your own, I would suggest doing a short capture 5-10 minutes and try out different settings preferrably on a CD-RW disk. You can do multiple test encodes, put them on one VCD and pick which looks best. Some of the settings you could change are:

The first thing would be to change motion search precision to High or Highest quality (there is only a minimal difference between the two.) This will definitely help.

Having the wrong field order can also cause similar problems. Try changing the field order setting to it's opposite. Field order is in the top section on the advanced tab of TMPGenc settings.

You may also want to try 2-Pass VBR. This does take more time to encode, but I have found it to produce better results. I've read hundreds of messages and it seems like the community is split roughly 50/50 as to wether CQ or 2-Pass VBR produces a better result. Try settings something like 500 min, 1000 avg, 1150 max.

[Josh909]

hwoodwar

Thanks for the tips...I will try today and give you some feedback. Just 1 question, where do I find "the 2-Pass VBR" and what does it do? Thanks.

[crahak]

I never seen a VCD I ever liked either... Pretty happy about my CVD encodes from my captures though...

[hwoodwar]

Josh909:

In the settings of TMPGenc go to the video tab. It is one of the options under rate control mode. Once you select it, then you can click the settings icon beside it and enter max, min, and average bitrate. Depending upon your specific DVD player you may be able to go to higher bitrates than the standards specify. For instance the SVCD standard max bitrate is about 2520 with good quality sound. When I create CVD's and SVCD's I usually begin testing with a max bitrate of 3600 or 4000 as all three of may standalone players can handle at least 5500 with SVCD's. However, if you will be sharing these with others than I advise against going higher than the standard indicates (1150 bitrate for VCD.)

I'm not sure exactly how 2-pass VBR works, but I'll take a guess. I'm sure someone else can give you a much better explanation. VBR is an acronym for variable bitrate. I suspect 2-Pass VBR has some sort of quality algorithm and it runs through each scene using this algorithm to select a bitrate within the specified limits that meet that quality, then the second pass refines those settings further to improve the quality more.

By the way, when you run 2-pass VBR in TMPGenc, don't be alarmed when you don't see an image in the preview window for the first pass (first 50 percent) this is normal and when the second pass starts then the preview will be displayed.

[Josh909]

Thanks for all your support...I have tried your suggestions and the quality is much better....I hear you and others mention about this "CVD" how is this different and what programs do you use to first, encode the file, second, burn it..does it play on DVD players? Should I be doing this CVD and scrap VCD alltogether? One last thing is that after your suggestions my file sizes seem quite large. Thanks again for the help...

[Nelson37]

Technically, a CVD "IS" an SVCD. Most players that play SVCD will play CVD, and if they are manufactured in China they must by law. A CVD is a form of SVCD with a resolution of 352x480 instead of 480x480. All the other specs are the same. Because of the lower resolution they are more tolerant of bitrates below the 2500 max.

VCD to me is unacceptable in terms of qualtiy, unless it is a low-motion, unimportant, or animated source. SVCD is noticably better in quality, with CVD slightly less than SVCD but still much better than VCD. With CVD I can get 55-65 minutes on a disk without losing too much quality, its all a trade-off.

If you are unclear on the concept of bitrate and how it affects quality and filesize, you should research these some more.

[willy_annand]

I never seen a VCD I ever liked either... Pretty happy about my CVD encodes from my captures though...

Only VCDs I find watchable are old B&W movies with little action.
I have several Charlie Chan and Sherlock Holmes (Rathbone and Bruce) VCDs that I have capped and they are watchable, capped off VHS. VCDs play about VHS quality.

Also cartoons are not bad in VCD format.

For newer movies though VCD is not the way to go. SVCD at 1 hour per 700MB CDR is best for my eyes.

[wadiator]

The comment about VCD being about VHS quality is exactly what my first impression was when I did my first few captures this weekend. Here's what I don't understand: I am capturing via S-Video feed off of DirecTv. This should give me almost the best quality feed (next to component video). Even so, though, isn't all non-HDTV video in a 352x240 or so format in NTSC? That being the case, what difference does it make if I capture at a higher rate? Why would that give me a better capture. It would seem to be the same thing as getting paid in pennies each week. Yeah, I have more pennies (pixels) but they add up to the same thing.

Am I just missing something here? I realize the loss in quality mainly occurs during compression. Therefore, if I capture uncompressed at 352x240, isn't that as good as it gets and anything else just muddies the water? Why use 480 x 480 on a normal television show?

[willy_annand]

Therefore, if I capture uncompressed at 352x240, isn't that as good as it gets and anything else just muddies the water? Why use 480 x 480 on a normal television show?

Actually, to get the whole frame, you need to cap at 352x480.
My capture drivers only have 640x480 as the closest size (only one with __x480 resolution).

480x480 is standard SVCD format. SVCD format uses MPEG2, while VCD is 352x240 MPEG1. I capture at 640x480, then convert to either VCD or SVCD standard depending on what the source looks like. You lose some quality with each process (more loss with VCD), SO, if the source clip is excellent, B&W and not much high motion, or is classic animation. I convert to VCD.

I always keep the original capture file until after I have converted, burned and watched it on my stand-alone DVD player and my 32" TV. That way, if it looks bad in VCD format, I can convert it to SVCD format.

The difference is I can get 80 minutes in VCD format and 45-60 minutes in SVCD format, but with CDRs so cheap, who cares if it takes 2 CDS. I just have a generic 5 second clip that says "To Be Continued" and one that says "Continued from Part 01".

The most I have done so far is 6 volumes for "The Blue and The Gray" miniseries.

[hwoodwar]

Josh909:

I actually have been making a few VCD's lately. You asked about the file sizes beeing large. Here is what I vaguely remember about one old movie that I captured from tape and re-encoded to VCD:

I capture for both VCD and CVD at 353 x 480 with the HuffyUV codec using VirtualDub.

This particular movie was approx 87min long (after editing out commercials)
Captured avi file approx 20gig

After using the brightness/contrast filter in VirtualDub and changing same I saved it back to avi format and separating the audio out to a wav file.

In TMPGEnc I applied Kwag's KVCD Plus 352 x 240 template and changed it to 2-Pass VBR, min 500, avg 1100, and max 1500. Then I remuxed the audio. Final size of the mpeg file 811meg, which is in the limits of an 800meg disk when you overburn.

You can see using these procedures there is a substantial size decrease in the encoding process (ie 20gig to 811meg.)

With one 87min movie taking up 20gig when capturing to AVI using a compression codec, you can see why most people, here, recommend at least an 80gig hard drive. I actually have two 120gig drives installed.