Recommended DVD authoring programs...

[mjl1297]

I have a Toshiba DVD recorder that I am using to transfer my VHS tapes to DVD on and I am quite happy with the quality of those discs. There is the odd scene I would like to edit though and I would also like to create menus, chapter selections, and the occasional caption overprint especially on vacation dvds.

Can anyone recommend a good dvd authoring program I can do this in that will enable me to then burn to DVD without re-rendering the file? I don't want to run the risk of a degradation in the signal quality.

[lordsmurf]

DVDWS2. Read this guide for authoring discs with Ulead DVD Workshop 2 at http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/showthread.php/author-ulead-dvd-1506.html

Buy it from B&H for $50. (Recent price drop! Was $99! Nice!!)

Note: Cheaper software and freeware sucks at what you want to do. Also don't let some giblet-head tell you DVDWS2 is old/unsupported/etc. It works fine, WinXP and Vista (not tested Win7). DVD authoring was at its pinnacle in 2005, most software since then has been downgraded template-driven crap for authoring.

[mjl1297]

Thanks lordsmurf!

Can I download that video you are linking to? Is it supposed to have sound by the way? Also since my files are already MPEG-2 (DVD compliant) adding the menus, the occasional caption, and doing a bit of video editing won't adversely affect quality will it?

Just downloaded the trial version of this software and a users manual by the way.

[guns1inger]

DVD Styler is free and will do this without re-encoding or limiting you to templates. GUIForDVdAuthor will also do this, but has a steeper learning curve. They don't perhaps look as pretty as the commercial software, but they are as functional.

[mjl1297]

One other thing, I am recording these to DVD+RW discs and I'm getting the Video_RM folder. Based on what I've read in some other threads today about this folder should I be concerned or can the recommended programs in this thread deal with it?

Ok let me be a little more detailed. My DVD+RW discs, which I'm using because of compatibility issues between my recorder and PC, have a VIDEO_TS and a VIDEO_RM folder when I am finished recording on my set top recorder. These contain vob files of course and apparently those aren't as compliant as I thought they were because Ulead and DVD Styler won't open them. Both give me an error message. Do I have to convert these and will that affect the quality?

Figured out how to open the vob files in Ulead but the editing isn't as straightforward as I had hoped.

[mjl1297]

The more research I do the more of a pain in the neck this seems to be. All of the "guides" I come across seem to contradict one another at some point! Maybe I will just see if I can edit on the set top and if not just forget it.

[mjl1297]

Ok things are getting a little better but I'm still somewhat frustrated. I need a software that will enable me to display my vob files frame by frame so that I can visually select what I want to edit and that will also enable me to insert chapter divisions, create menus, and overprint titles. Surely there is something out there that will enable me to do this that won't adversely affect quality. Any suggestions?

[usually_quiet]

Ok things are getting a little better but I'm still somewhat frustrated. I need a software that will enable me to display my vob files frame by frame so that I can visually select what I want to edit and that will also enable me to insert chapter divisions, create menus, and overprint titles. Surely there is something out there that will enable me to do this that won't adversely affect quality. Any suggestions?

Some authoring software includes a basic editor, but it's not usually a frame-by-frame editor that does minimal re-encoding. Womble's MPEG Video Wizard DVD does include one, but it might not meet your needs in other respects. Most people eventually find they need to use separate editing and authoring software to get everything they want in both areas.

[edit] You will need to use forced subtitles to add captions to video without re-encoding it. I haven't used an authoring package that supports subtitle creation, though it's always possible one exists. Mostly authoring packages require a pre-existing subtitle file. There are a few free subtitle creation programs available. I have used SubtitleCreator and Subtitle Workshop, but there are probably other good ones too.

[mjl1297]

I don't mind if I have to use separate programs for different aspects of the production process as I do that with the audio files I create.

I just need something that will enable me to do some frame by frame editing, then something that will create menus and chapter stops, and then something that will enable me to create titles on top of the first few frames of video when we change from one scene to another not actually a subtitle so my video nomenclature may have been a bit misleading there.

It doesn't matter to me if it is all one app or several I just need to do it in a lossless fashion. I can't do some of the things I need to do in the recorder itself and so far I've been rather underwhelmed by the programs I've tried so far.

[guns1inger]

Womble Mpeg Video Wizard will let you do frame by frame editing and basic overlays. You cannot do completely lossless frame level editing of mpeg-2 video for DVD, as any time you cut a GOP you need to re-encode any open frames in the GOP. The same with overlays. Any time you change the video image, you will have to re-encode that section at least. Womble will only re-encode what it needs to, and will leave what it doesn't.

[mjl1297]

Ummm that's too bad then. I'm not wanting to negatively impact the quality of the video in any way and apparently that can't be avoided in any of the programs we've discussed. I thought it would be a simple thing to insert chapter marks, menus, edit blank frames, and insert the odd overlay here and there without any loss in the quality of the original file but apparently not. Looks like video software programs have some catching up to do to their audio counterparts.

Thanks anyway guys.

[mjl1297]

Just curious but how do you do frame by frame editing in Womble's program? At least in such a way that you can tell what frames you are actually selecting before making the trim? I understand that there is more to video editing than audio recording but it almost seems like the people coding these programs set out to make them as unintuitive and as user hostile as possible!

[guns1inger]

I think you have unrealistic expectation and little real experience editing. Bottom line, you cannot change the video image content without re-encoding, in any tool. It is simply not possible.

As for Womble, open the video in the preview window, drag it to the time line, use a combination of the mouse and the cursor keys to fir the frame you want to cut on, and then cut by pressing the scissors button. Move the end of the section you want to remove, and cut again. Hightlight the section you want to remove and hit Del. What is so unintuitive about that ?

[guns1inger]

So your background is in audio editing ?

OK, there are a few differences between video and audio editing. Some are suck-egg obvious, and some are not.

The most obvious is the content, and the structure of the content. Video is obviously divided into frames, and constrained to some degree by this structure.

What is different is what this can mean to the way the two can be compressed. Audio compression does not preclude simple non-destructive edits. For example, you can use MP3Cut to trim an MP3 audio file without the need to re-encode any of the file.

Video, on the other hand, comes in a variety of compression methods that can make frame accurate edits more difficult. Some formats, such as DV, using only intra-frame compression. That is, the compression takes place on a per frame basis. You can, therefore, remove a single frame without the need to re-encode the entire video (or even a portion of). Mpeg-4 and Mpeg-2 use a combination of intraframe compression, and interframe or temporal compression. This means that the video is divided into groups of pictures (or frames, known as GOPs), and compression happens across the entire GOP. For DVD these GOPs are usually 12, 15 or 18 frames in length. For Xvid/Divx, they could be 300 frames long. The compression for the GOP is dependent on the first frame (the key frame), and each subsequent frame. There are also relationships between each of the internal frames and their neighbors. This means that you cannot just remove a frame from a GOP without breaking the compression for that GOP. In that case, what remains of the GOP must be re-encoded to correct the break. Usually you are removing more than a single frame, the but the rules still hold. If you cut a GOP at any point other than a key frame, and leave any GOP incomplete, that GOP must be re-encoded. This is why some editors only allow cuts on key frames.

As for overlays, there the similarity to audio is pretty strong and easy to follow. Assume you have a track that has been compressed with MP3 compression. You want to add a new instrumental track to the mix and deliver the result as an MP3 file. You have no choice but to re-encode the entire file because you have changed the entire file. The same goes for overlays. Anywhere you put an overlay, you effectively change the content of the file for that section, and it must be re-encoded.

Most of the prosumer editors don't even treat Mpeg-2 as nicely as Womble because they aren't designed to work with it. The quality of Mpeg-2 video you have generally only comes from cameras and DVD recorders, and the audience the bigger editors are aimed at generally don't work with that type of material. Womble Mpeg Video Wizard is the closest we currently have to smart assemble editing for the home mpeg-2 crowd.

[lordsmurf]

Womble re-encodes video like crap. It looks dreadful.

Great editor (the best, I'd say!)...
... just don't let it re-encode the whole video unless you like blocks. You've been warned.

Guides for using Womble editors:
- Help editing MPEG video with Womble MPEG-VCR
@ http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/edit-mpeg-womble.htm

- Help editing MPEG video with Womble MPEG Video Wizard
@ http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/showthread.php/editing-womble-mpeg-381.html

What you know about audio doesn't have much overlap in video. I did digital audio for probably 4-5 years (in the early 90s) before I did video. I know the connections you're trying to make, but it won't work.

None of the video-based guides have sound, it's not needed. Watch the screen and mimic it, learn from it.

[mjl1297]

Thanks for being so patient guys! I guess I had too many "irons in the fire" last night. You are quite correct in assuming that this is my first foray into video editing but I was expecting it to be a bit like audio editing which I'm more accustomed to.

Anyway I'll sit down and give all of this a good study when I have a little more time at my disposal. I think I can find my way I was basically just wanting to get things done last night...too impatient to allow for the learning curve.

[usually_quiet]

Womble re-encodes video like crap. It looks dreadful.

Great editor (the best, I'd say!)...
... just don't let it re-encode the whole video unless you like blocks. You've been warned.

Thanks for the info. I noticed some green blocks in the black frames where I snipped out commercials. At least I know now that it's not a problem that is unique to me or my computer.

[wobblesky]

Womble re-encodes video like crap. It looks dreadful.

Great editor (the best, I'd say!)...
... just don't let it re-encode the whole video unless you like blocks. You've been warned.

I think the new MpegVideoWizard 5 use Mainconcept, so the reencoding of the GOPs should be better quality now. Can anyone confirm this?

[mjl1297]

Womble re-encodes video like crap. It looks dreadful.

Great editor (the best, I'd say!)...
... just don't let it re-encode the whole video unless you like blocks. You've been warned.

Guides for using Womble editors:
- Help editing MPEG video with Womble MPEG-VCR
@ http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/edit-mpeg-womble.htm

- Help editing MPEG video with Womble MPEG Video Wizard
@ http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/showthread.php/editing-womble-mpeg-381.html

What you know about audio doesn't have much overlap in video. I did digital audio for probably 4-5 years (in the early 90s) before I did video. I know the connections you're trying to make, but it won't work.

None of the video-based guides have sound, it's not needed. Watch the screen and mimic it, learn from it.

Is MPEG-VCR the more straightforward of the programs for editing purposes? It appears to be. I may just go with simple edit-and-save alterations and forgo the idea of adding menus and chapter marks. However, if I were to add chapter marks and overlays, what program would you recommend I do it in? One that would have the least noticeable impact on the re-encode and preferably one that would only re-encode the affected parts. Many thanks!

[lordsmurf]

Chapter marks is done during authoring, not editing. You mark points in the video in the authoring app.

For overlays, you'd be limited by your budget, skills and time. If it were me, I'd convert the MPEG to uncompressed AVI, and then edit in Premier or Premiere Elements -- advanced editors. Then encodes back out to DVD. Some quality loss is possible, but that can be mitigated by good manual export settings. Premiere is also $75 range for cheap version, $500 for pro version.

You can do more complex splitting of the file in Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD, add overlays to just the pieces you want in Premiere, export just those pieces with same MPEG settings as source, then re-assemble in Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD. It's not a light exercise. But this is the type of work I do all the time.

[usually_quiet]

Is MPEG-VCR the more straightforward of the programs for editing purposes? It appears to be. I may just go with simple edit-and-save alterations and forgo the idea of adding menus and chapter marks. However, if I were to add chapter marks and overlays, what program would you recommend I do it in? One that would have the least noticeable impact on the re-encode and preferably one that would only re-encode the affected parts. Many thanks!

You don't fully understand the process yet. There can be severals steps and multiple software tools involved in what you want to do.

1. Editing = Assembling the video clips and audio tracks, removing unwanted parts, and creating transitions between scenes (if the editor has that feature). Womble Video Wizard DVD does, and allows titling (text on a colored background) as one transition option. MPEG VCR is a basic editor that doesn't create transitions as I recall, and you might prefer to use it until you are more comfortable with the process.

2. Adding Visual effects = Adding text, graphics, or animation to the video. This might be done before or after editing. It requires re-encoding for each frame on which an effect is overlayed because the additions become an integral part of the picture. A separate program like BluffTitler or After Effects is used most of the time. Some editors could have the ability to add simple effects. From what LS says, I guess Adobe Premiere is an editor that does, but I don't use effects myself, and can't suggest a more beginner-friendly basic program.

3. Create subtitles = Allows very simple text or graphics to be displayed overlaying the video without re-encoding. You could use forced subtitles to add simple text overlays to your video. What you can do with subtitles is definitely limited, but there is no re-encoding involved.

4. Find/create graphics, animation, video clips and music to use for your menus. You might use several different programs for this.

5. DVD Authoring = Combining audio and video tracks with subtitles, plus adding menus and chapters, if desired. This step produces the files needed to create a disc that an ordinary DVD player will play. You may want a separate program for this.

6. Burn the authored files to DVD. ImgBurn is preferred in the Windows community on this website.

[mjl1297]

Suppose I edit in MPEGVCR, then author in DVDstyler after merging the vob files, and finally burn the files in ImgBurn? Shouldn't that do what I need to get done with minimal re-encoding? I'm not looking to get overly complex in the creation of these DVDs. Basic menus, a few chapter marks, and perhaps a forced subtitle rather than an overlay to introduce a new segment on the vacation trips. What about that?

[guns1inger]

That sounds like the least impact method.

[lordsmurf]

Photoshop + Premiere does more than enough "special effects" for most people.
After Effects is heavy, not really all that needed.

Womble MPEG-VCR has basic fade transitions, maybe a couple of others (I rarely use them).