So, what's wrong with NERO?

[jmkeuning]

I ripped some VHS tapes and had four MPEGs, each about an hour and about 2.8 gigs.

I use Nero to do my authoring, but I know most people here have nothing good to say about it. Why?

When I brought all the files into Nero, the program told me that the project was way to big so I just changed the setting to Extra Super Long Play (or whatever). Nero took a few hours to make the DVD but it looks perfect!

So:
1) what's the big deal?
2) what program would you purists out there have used?

I ask because I am authoring more and more DVDs and I want to do it right!

[MOVIEGEEK]

The reason is Nero's encoder is inferior to say TMPGEnc or CCE and the menu options are limited compared to DVDLab or Ulead MediaStudio Pro,if you're happy then that's all that matters.

[mats.hogberg]

1) Nothing.
2) For starters, I'd have calculated the time for the captures, and from that got the bitrate to use when encoding. Judging by bitrate, I may have settled for 1/2 D1 (or even VCD) resolution.Then captured/encoded the VHS tapes to DVD compliant mpg at the bitrate/frame size earlier deduced. Then authored with TDA. I'd have saved one encoder pass both in quality and time compared to your approach.

/Mats

[snapfisher]

-Quality is bad....
-When adding a separate wav file to video tracks, I get crackling in the sound.....even in the preview screen, and the really odd part is that the files play fine in the Nero WAV editor.
-Oh...did I mention the video encoding quality is poor.
-Many times it just up and craps out before finishing.
-Video files converted/authored in other sources look better when played through WMP than Nero Show

If you are reading this trying to decide whether to plunk down some cash for nero 7, just don't. I feel very ripped off. I'm probably going to spend an equal amount of $$ of Tmpgenc DVD Author...which I shoul have done in the first place.

<end of rant>

[jimmalenko]

1. Nero normally fails to recognise already dvd-compliant material and instead of going straight to authoring, it insists on re-encoding (see points #2 & #3)

2. Re-encoding already-compliant material is a waste of my time. TMPGEnc DVD Author (or any other reputable authoring package for that matter) can author my material in 15 minutes. Why should I wait 3-5 hours for Nero to re-encode that which does not require re-encoding ?

3. It is a poor encoder quality-wise in comparison to the big guns - TMPGEnc, CCE, MainConcept

4. Flexibility (or lack thereof) - I don't want quality presets. I want to drive, being able to set exact resolutions and bitrates based a mixture of tried and true calculations as well as judgement based on experience. How dare a program try to tell me what I can and can't do ? Provided my preferred settings are within DVD spec, it should not have a problem. Nero does.

5. Good planning is the key to retaining as much quality as possible whilst minimising "wasted" time re-encoding. Ideally captures should be to DVD-compliant specs since every re-encode reduces quality. So instead of capturing to 4 x 2.8GB files, IMHO you should have worked out prior to capture that 4 hours of video would need a bitrate of about 2300kbps, and then captured to Half D1 at that bitrate. Then with a decent authoring package you could have had your finished DVD some 20 minutes or so after your final capture (or editing, if required) finished - allowing 15 minutes for authoring and 5 minutes to burn. Instead you needed to re-encode anyway to lower the bitrate so that the designated time would fit on a DVD.

As it happened, you're happy with the results so I guess it just proves that if you're onto what you regard as a good thing, you should stick to it.

[jmkeuning]

Regarding calculations and then limiting the size of the capture - shouldn't I capture the highest quality video that I can? For archiving purpses and what not?

I agree that re-encoding is a waste of time and I know that Nero does this. I have used Ulead and saw that it does not re-encode. Since I capture in MPEG, I want to try this calculation thing. Is there a guide somewhere that can direct me?

[mats.hogberg]

Regarding calculations and then limiting the size of the capture - shouldn't I capture the highest quality video that I can? For archiving purpses and what not?

If you want to archive it, yes, that would be a good idea. But then, to make your 2nd generation as good as possible - don't capture to mpg, but to uncompressed format (or other lossless like huffyuv) or DV AVI. Encoding to mpg should ideally be made only once.

/Mats

[jimmalenko]

Regarding calculations and then limiting the size of the capture - shouldn't I capture the highest quality video that I can? For archiving purpses and what not?

If you need / want to archive the source, then yes. However if you "only" want the end result on DVD, then it's more efficient to capture straight to the destination format.

Is there a guide somewhere that can direct me?

http://members.dodo.net.au/~jimmalenko/AVI2DVD.htm is a guide for converting AVI to DVD, but it also discusses the finer points of choosing the correct frame size and bitrate to use. Might be worth a read ...

[steptoe]

Nero doesn't like 32k padding, it actually decides it knows best and can change them which can screw things up when your DVD player standalone tries to read and recognise the disc


I used to use Nero 6.xx and 7.xx for burning DVDs but after having major problems with discs not even being recognised in another stand alone player I bought, I tried changing to what was then DVD Decrypter to burn my DVDs, I now use IMGBurn (same guy who wrote DVD Decrypter but much better). All my problems were solved, so this proved to me that Nero sucks at DVD burning. I had to redo a stack of DVDs as they all had the same faults in not being recognised or skipping so badly it was totally unwatchable on one standalone, but played fine on another, with or without different media being used

All I did was change my burning software. Same media, same batch and spindle, same burning speed, same burner, just different software and thats ALL I changed



32k padding explained and why its there
There can be gaps on a DVD. The most notable ones are those used to ensure that no ECC block contains any portion of an IFO file and its associated BUP file. Since ECC blocks are 16 sectors long (32K), the easiest way to accomplish this is to ensure that there are 16 sectors between the end of the IFO and the start of the BUP. With VIDEO_TS.VOB or VTS_xx_0.VOB files less that 32K (or absent) this means using a gap.

Burning programs handle this in one of three ways, two of which are correct.

· They can honour the authoring program's layout and place the data on the disk according to the pointers in the IFO files

· They can make their own layout decisions and alter the pointers accordingly

· They (notably Nero, at least in several past versions) pack the data as closely as possible and ignore the pointers

The upshot of this is, to use ISO images to maximize the chance of a "good burn". Burners and burning programs don't examine the data or the layout of an ISO image, they just burn it.

Why is this needed?

If an IFO is unreadable (e.g. a CRC error in a sector), the player looks for the BUP, which is stored on the disk right after the VOBs for the titleset. Now suppose the VOBs for that titleset are small and the data is packed in. There is a chance that the BUP occupies exactly the same bad block that the IFO did, making the BUP useless and the disk, dead in the water

Essentially, the basic problem is that without the proper spacing, a single CRC error that would normally only affect one of the two files will affect both, rendering both useless. If proper spacing exists, it would take at least two CRC errors (one affecting each) to render both the IFO and BUP useless

It’s important that one failed sector does not ruin both the IFO and the BUP, making the DVD into yet another coaster

This problem does not affect disks which have VOBs for each and every titleset totalling 32K or more. However, crucially, it does affect ALL disks “reauthored” by DVD Shrink and Nero Recode (and possibly other one-click backup programs)

[CrayonEater]

I would avoid Tmpgenc like the plague. However, Nero is ok at BURNING, but, l;ike most all-in-one tools, really isn't good at much else! (Well, at least 7.0.8.2 is). Also, as Mats alluded to, you should avoid double-conversions i.e. do not capture to AVI and then convert to DVD; capture straight to MPEG-2/VOB/DVD-format. Not only does this save lots of time, but, more importantly, it prevents quality loss. An uncompressed format like Huffyuv or DV, while ideal for archival purposes, can take up enormous amounts of space, perhaps many DVD's worth. Not very practical unless you have a tape or a holographic disc drive, but if you've got some money, go for it!

[MOVIEGEEK]

I would avoid Tmpgenc like the plague. However, Nero is ok at BURNING, but, l;ike most all-in-one tools, really isn't good at much else! (Well, at least 7.0.8.2 is)

HUH?

[mats.hogberg]

Yeah, I didn't get that either. TMPGEnc may not be the fastest encoder around, but qualitwise, it has nothing to be ashamed of.

/Mats

[offline]

Agreed. TMPGEnc can even be the better choice with some sources than the big guys - CCE/Procoder etc. TMPGEnc is excellent value for the money, and many here like its features; although the reduced encoding speed is a limiting factor for some.