Help with 4:3 SVCD to 16:9 DVD

[snorfle]

Hello all,

I've seen similar questions around the forum and other places through googling, and they all seem to involve complicated scripting and have been answered back in '03 or '04. I'm hoping there's an easier way to do this now...

QUESTION: I have a couple of MPEG2 files from SVCDs (cd1 and cd2) which are "widescreen" but in 4:3 format so as to be SVCDs. By that, I mean they just seem to have the black bars stuck in there, but the resolution is 480x480. My normal tool for MPEG-->DVD conversion is to just drop it in NeroVision Express. In fact, that does work for these MPEGs also, but on my widescreen TV they show up as "non-anamorphic" because it is of course burned at 4:3. (Forcing it to burn at 16:9 just makes everything strechier, the bars are still there.)

So I figure I need some type of tool to crop the bars off the 480x480 MPEG, and then I'll burn that. I read some really complicated guide which involved AVIs, but is there any way to just do:
SVCD MPEG (480x480) ---> cropped MPEG --> burn
...or is there some other way to do it?

This seems like it would be a common enough issue there should be an easy way to handle it, or maybe I've just gotten spoiled with stuff like AVI2DVD and DVD2SVCD. Can anybody give me a hand?

[lumis]

main concept mpeg encoder can do this for you.

[DereX888]

SVCDs are always 4x3, in a 'widescreen version' they are actually letterbox format (kinda like VHS tape with widescreen movie). The black bars were added during encoding of SVCD if source was 16x9. They are part of the picture now. The only way to get rid of them is to re-encode the whole picture. Therefore the best quality preserved woyld be if you leave them as they are, an SVCD-format MPEG-2 files, and get a dvd player capable of playing 'mpeg files on data disc' (i.e. $40 philips dvp-640 and about 100 other models), where you would just copy and just slam the SVCD mpegs on a DVD-R and play them back without any problems.
But if insist on the troublesome-way, you'd do reencoding. Which brings the question: to what format? Options are DVD or CVD (D2 DVD, aka 'half DVD'). You could remove the black bars, recreate 16x9 AR and encode in DVD-Video format. IMO bad idea - because it will for sure look worse than the original SVCD (upsizing too much). Yet reencoding to CVD/'half DVD' format is also bad idea, because you will be slightly (but still) downgrading picture quality due to downsizing its quality, although probably it won't be noticeable on anything less than 40''+ screen, and still keeping the black bars, so the only real advantage of downsizing to CVD format would be its 100% compatibility with DVD-Video standard for further authoring on a dvd disc..

Choice is yours.
I would go and get some inexpensive new dvd player capable of playing "SVCDs on DVD-R"... but thats me, Im well known to be the lazy guy (guess my preferred position in sex )
For both encodings you can use i.e. TMPGEncoder, where you set manually input aspect ratio and output AR, and set the appropriate cropping.

EDIT:
There is (or used to be) something called "SVCD2DVD" by Chrissyboy. I dont know is this being still developed, because as I said - IMO its stupid to do any reencoding when there are hundreds of players capable of playing SVCD files burnt on DVD-Rs, but you can look it up in the Tools sections. I have no clue can this tool remove black bars or not. And I think it is not a freeware anymore - which would make it even less sense (instead of spending $ on a more functional player).

[snorfle]

Lumis - More explict instructions please? I tried using the "crop & scale" tool in the details" section, outputting a DVD formatted mpeg, and burning. Same problem as before, maybe I did it wrong?

Derex888 - Well, as I said, I can put the SVCD MPEGs onto a DVDR using Nero Express, so it just transcodes for me, and then I get them in what appears on my widescreen tv as "letterboxed" 4:3. Would a player capable of playing "mpeg files on a data disc" be any different? (I wouldn't think so) Removing the black bars and creating 16x9 AR is what I'm going for, and yes it won't be great quality, but quite honestly these are SVCD MPEGs that are going onto a DVD-RW, I watch them on my TV, and then erase them, so if worst comes to worst, I can handle the letterboxed 4:3.
So, got any detailed instructions using TMPGEnc for removing the black bars of the MPEG? I tried this before with no luck (the program wanted an avi source only, I couldn't even get going...and the MPEG tools didn't seem to do much but freeze the app). Also, SVCD2DVD won't remove the black bars, as far as I can tell. It's just another app in the vein of Nero Express and TMPG DVD Author.

UPDATE: Lumis - I messed up and didn't have the DVD output set to 16:9 on the MainConcept MPEG Encoder (4:3 was default). Using this + the crop seemed to work pretty well.

[DereX888]

Derex888 - Well, as I said, I can put the SVCD MPEGs onto a DVDR using Nero Express, so it just transcodes for me, and then I get them in what appears on my widescreen tv as "letterboxed" 4:3. Would a player capable of playing "mpeg files on a data disc" be any different? (I wouldn't think so)

You totally missing the point!
Player capable of playing back "mpeg files on data disc" would save you the original quality of your SVCDs, because no alteration of original SVCD picture would be needed, thats first of all. Although I agree that SVCD is not that great looking quality format, I must add that I have some SVCDs of *better* picture quality than many people's DVD-R backups (like those made with quick transcoders).
Second of all - it doesnt take any work to do if you just copy SVCD's mpeg files onto DVD-R, while with reencoding - and I think you already know it for yourself - it will take way way more time for each movie, and the result is worse quality picture. To *me* it does not make any sense, sorry.

Removing the black bars and creating 16x9 AR is what I'm going for, and yes it won't be great quality, but quite honestly these are SVCD MPEGs that are going onto a DVD-RW, I watch them on my TV, and then erase them, so if worst comes to worst, I can handle the letterboxed 4:3.

In that case I totally don't understand your need for any reencoding! Waste few hours work just to delete it later?

So, got any detailed instructions using TMPGEnc for removing the black bars of the MPEG? I tried this before with no luck (the program wanted an avi source only, I couldn't even get going...a

This encoder is so simple and straightforward that I doubt you'll find any 'guide' on it! Main points in this conversion woyld be to set input A/R=4x3, set output A/R=16x9, set cropping of whatever is the size of the black bars, and just make sure the output is 16x9 (you may need to add back some very thin black bars if the picture is not anamorphic 16x9 but some "very widescreen" cinema format). Thats basically all!
I think the trial version of TMPGEnc didnt support MPEG-2 and has many other limitations, so make sure youre not using any trial version.


Or - again - save yourself a trouble and change the player

UPDATE: Lumis - I messed up and didn't have the DVD output set to 16:9 on the MainConcept MPEG Encoder (4:3 was default). Using this + the crop seemed to work pretty well.

Just out of sheer curiosity - how long did it take you do this single conversion?

[lumis]

i havent converted any letterboxed svcd mpegs in a while..

but main concept was pretty good about it.. basically i'd take a small sample, a few seconds. and convert it.. i'd basically eye-ball it and compare it with the original to make sure the ratio was correct.. after a few minutes, you'd have the right settings, then you load up the full mpegs and convert..

[snorfle]

You totally missing the point!
Player capable of playing back "mpeg files on data disc" would save you the original quality of your SVCDs, because no alteration of original SVCD picture would be needed, thats first of all. Although I agree that SVCD is not that great looking quality format, I must add that I have some SVCDs of *better* picture quality than many people's DVD-R backups (like those made with quick transcoders).
Second of all - it doesnt take any work to do if you just copy SVCD's mpeg files onto DVD-R, while with reencoding - and I think you already know it for yourself - it will take way way more time for each movie, and the result is worse quality picture. To *me* it does not make any sense, sorry.

Hmmm. Ok, point taken, I'll check that out.

Removing the black bars and creating 16x9 AR is what I'm going for, and yes it won't be great quality, but quite honestly these are SVCD MPEGs that are going onto a DVD-RW, I watch them on my TV, and then erase them, so if worst comes to worst, I can handle the letterboxed 4:3.

In that case I totally don't understand your need for any reencoding! Waste few hours work just to delete it later?

Just to watch it all big on my TV. And I would normally set it to go during work so I can burn and watch it when I get back.

[junkmalle]

Crop 60 lines off the top and bottom of your 480x480 SVCD file, resize the remaining 480x360 frame to 720x480 and encode as 16:9 DVD.

[lumis]

Crop 60 lines off the top and bottom of your 480x480 SVCD file, resize the remaining 480x360 frame to 720x480 and encode as 16:9 DVD.

there we go.. thats the magic number i couldnt ever remember.

[snorfle]

Wanted to bump this up with a method I've discovered that works for me.

I had problems using the Main Concept MPEG Encoder, not because I was having trouble with the settings or what it output, but because it crashed every 15 minutes!! Crazy.

Then I tried opening the MPEG2 in VirtualDub-MPEG2, using a resize filter with 720x480 and cropping 60 from Y1 and 60 from Y2, saving as an AVI, and then loading this into AVI2DVD or whatever. This worked, but the quality was beyond awful.

Finally, I gave up. I only just recently discovered the solution by accident. Here's the method I used to get the desired results, with decent quality:

1.) Use Nerovision Express to transcode the 480x480 MPEG2 files into a letterboxed DVD, and have it save the files as a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive. I suppose I could have used some other tool, this is just easy for me (though slooooooow).
2.) Use DVD Rebuilder to do a DVD-->DVD conversion from the files. The thing to check off is under Options->AVS Options->Advanced Options->Convert from LB 4:3 to 16:9 and I would assume you want Apply to All. And, yes, you do need to do step 2 (encode) even though it tells you the files are small enough to fit on a DVD5 (I used HCEnc on "Best", though it seems everyone loves CCE).
3.) Burn the resulting VIDEO_TS folder! The black bars have been clipped, the movie resized, and the IFO files changed to reflect it. 8)

Probably not the best or most effcient way to go about this (and believe me Step 2 seems to take a lifetime) but after all this is the newbie forum, and these are some easy and repeatable steps that don't require much thought. Just thought I'd share.