Buying a new CPU/motherboard

[Sooner02]

What would be best for video encoding as far as a new CPU/motherboard combo? I really don't want to spend over $400. I don't game, so this isn't a decision factor, I just want something better than what I currently have (Mac isn't an option):

P4 2.6 400fsb
640mb RDRAM

[Capmaster]

What's the matter with what you have now? A 2.6 P4 is pretty good for video work

[Soopafresh]

Best bang for the buck


http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-486&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-180-061&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE



http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-440&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE



This will Mpeg encode almost twice as fast as your current system.

[Sooner02]

What's the matter with what you have now? A 2.6 P4 is pretty good for video work

There's nothing "wrong" with what I have. I just wouldn't mind some improvement on the encoding side.

[fatty4ksu]

[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=ksu+ou/v=2/SID=e/l=IVI/SIG=13ikhb3dm/EXP=1104967196/*-http%3A//i.cnn.net/si/2003/writers/stewart_mandel/12/07/big12.wildcats.sooners/p1_sproles_ap.jpg[/img]

[Sooner02]

[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=ksu+ou/v=2/SID=e/l=IVI/SIG=13ikhb3dm/EXP=1104967196/*-http%3A//i.cnn.net/si/2003/writers/stewart_mandel/12/07/big12.wildcats.sooners/p1_sproles_ap.jpg[/img]

31-21

[rallynavvie]

I don't think the A64 3000 will encode at twice a 2.6 P4, even the 400 FSB variety

Unless you know of some 64-bit media encoders, in which case I'd like a copy

[Soopafresh]

You're wrong, Mr Xeon. It does, and it is. I never believed it myself until I had to build one a few months back. I've benchmarked encoding times with it.

[fatty4ksu]

Tough night eh sooner?

[rallynavvie]

To say the A64 3000 encodes video at twice a 2.6 P4 is a bit lofty so I'm going to have to take you AMD folks down a notch here. We've been through this too many times already. I don't pay too much credence to THGs benchmarks but they're widely accepted on the net as a source of marks. First take a look at this article (I've linked the video encoding but the rest of the benchmarks are about what I'd expect):

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041115/pentium4_570-13.html

Though the 2.6/400 is not on there the A64 3000 isn't even topping a Northwood 3.0 on encoding. However you'll see that in database and number apps the AMD will take over (this includes gaming). No surprise here, Intel has been domninating the multimedia market for a long time. Even the similarly-priced A64 3200 isn't as fast as the 3.0 P4 so the price/performance deal is shot for media encoding.

Further:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041221/cpu_charts-18.html

That's their master benchmarks list that does show the 2.6/400 Celeron (not the P4). Reference the MPEG2 marks. The A64 3000 does it in 2:48, the 2.6 Celeron in 4:22. Half as fast as the AMD would be getting down to the old 1.7 P4. In some cases the 2.66/533 is beating the Newcastle 3000. If you surf around that last article it serves a pretty good reference to compare processors among each other.

I'm starting to think your marks may be a bit biased now. When I launch my thread for testing members' system here I do hope you realize it's just for fun and for our reference (and to trump THGs articles) and give us real results. Since this site is all about video the AMDs won't quite fit the benches as well as Intels. If we did WinRAR benches and gaming FPS then you'd see the tables turned no doubt.

[Sooner02]

Tough night eh sooner?

Yeah, how'd your bowl game turn out? Wait..

[Sooner02]

To say the A64 3000 encodes video at twice a 2.6 P4 is a bit lofty . . .

So, in short, you're saying that Intel will beat the AMD in multimedia apps, like encoding.

[Soopafresh]

Actually, Go Ahead. Get Intel. Ignore the scores below.


Source = 1080i Mpeg - 4664 Frames, 400MB Size- 03:06 Running Time

Destination = 720x480 vbr 7500-8500 MPEG2 Video Only

Encoder Used = QuEnc 0.56 Alpha (wanted a command line encoder so I could script the test)

----------AVS File Contents--------------
LoadPlugin("c:\test\DGDecode.dll")

mpeg2source("foo.d2v")

LanczosResize(720, 480)
---------------------------------------------

---------Batch File Contents--------------

quenc.exe -i "q.avs" -o "q.m2v" -b 7500 -maxbitrate 8500 -dc 9 -mpeg2 -nohq -vbr -noscene -notrell -nocgop -interlaced -noextreme -gopsize 15 -maxbframes 2 -aspectratio 16:9 -auto -close

pause

---------------------------------------------
RESULTS
-------------------------------------
2.4Ghz P4 533FSB 512 MB RAM

650 sec to complete = 7.09 FPS
-------------------------------------
Dual 3.0Ghz Xeon 800FSB 4GB RAM

327 sec to complete = 14.26 FPS
-------------------------------------
Athlon 64 3200 2GB RAM

321 sec to complete = 14.52 FPS
-------------------------------------

[Sooner02]

I'm not ignoring the results, I'd like to see more evidence if the amd64 can surpass Intel in video encoding.

[rallynavvie]

I love the SMP set thrown in there on a non-SMP encoder, are you in marketing?

Go look through those video benchmarks at THG at the links I posted and come to your own conclusion on Intels and AMDs for encoding performance. I won't post any of my personal marks because they could certainly be biased results

[Sooner02]

Those are good benchmarks, but of course, the fastest processors are a little out of my budget. Looks like the one that came out on top in every test is about an $800 chip.

[rallynavvie]

The second link has a lot more processors on display.

Do you really have a RAMBUS system? That makes it a lot tougher to upgrade. Still if you carry over everything except the motherboard, processor, and memory you may be able to make $400.

[Sooner02]

The second link has a lot more processors on display.

Do you really have a RAMBUS system? That makes it a lot tougher to upgrade. Still if you carry over everything except the motherboard, processor, and memory you may be able to make $400.

Yes, I have a rambus system, but I've upgraded to the max processor speed on this motherboard. This will be a whole new cpu/mobo/ram system. I would like to use the same video card since it's still pretty new. The problem is that it's AGP, so the new PCI express boards won't support it. I need to decide on whether or not I need to get a board with PCI-e or just stick with what I have, which works fine for what I do.

[rallynavvie]

You don't need PCI-E for video work, it's all 2D anyway. Shop around for a good deal on an Asus board with AGP, a P4 of your choice, and whatever amount of RAM you can afford with what is left over. You may also want to invest in a good power supply if you don't already have one and be sure to get decent memory, even if it means getting less (though stay above 512MB).

That is if you decide to go with the Intel solution

[Sooner02]

You don't need PCI-E for video work, it's all 2D anyway. Shop around for a good deal on an Asus board with AGP, a P4 of your choice, and whatever amount of RAM you can afford with what is left over. You may also want to invest in a good power supply if you don't already have one and be sure to get decent memory, even if it means getting less (though stay above 512MB).

That is if you decide to go with the Intel solution

I've only really found one Asus that has all of that, and it does not include firewire, which is a disappointment. However, Abit does have a board like that with firewire. I don't know a lot about Abit, but I haven't heard anything really negative about that manufacturer.

In a way, I would like to just upgrade to a PCI-e/DDR2 chipset, but not sure if it's necessarily going to be much of a difference in improvement for the added expense at the moment.

[rallynavvie]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-492&depa=0

P4P800-E Deluxe has FireWire onboard. 865 chipset is great, though not quite as good as an 875. The 865/875 chipsets are actually better than the current PCI-E chipsets anyway. DDR2 and PCI-E aren't needed for video work really so I wouldn't worry about it. An 865 board should be good for quite a while.

[Sooner02]

That's interesting, and I know that the P4P800-E Deluxe is a great board that I've considered, but it's for the socket 478. I'm sort of in a quandry with deciding on the 478 or the newer LGA775's. The 478 socket boards are certainly better in options and features. And there's only a few boards out there that support the 865/875 chipsets with a 775 socket (a cheaper solution than the 9xx's and also allow me to use existing AGP card). I'm still trying to decide, but leaning toward a socket 775, since the 478's will be gradually phased out.

[rallynavvie]

Then you'd be looking at the P5GDC Deluxe. I don't like the 9xx chipsets available so far, the 875 is still Intel's best platform and the 865 isn't far behind it. If you really want PCI-E and LGA then I'd recommend waiting until a better chipset comes out for that but who knows when that will be. I had heard it was supposed to be last month but I think they just released a different version of the 925.

I guess maybe the P5GDC Deluxe and the 915 chipset is as good as the other board with the 865 chipset though. For $40 more that isn't such a bad investment. You're going to have to get a new video card though, but there are some great mid-range PCI-E cards based on the latest GPU tech so that's not such a bad deal.

[Sooner02]

What do you think about this?

http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=191

Or this?

http://www.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=3245&CATEGOR...YPE=LP&SITE=NA

[zzyzzx]

Won't you just get one of those capture cards that does hardware MJPEG / MPG / MPG2 encoding? They are real cheap now.

[rallynavvie]

I couldn't say, I have a very short list of manufacturers I'll buy motherboards from.

Capture cards with hardware encoding are getting better but the quality doesn't match the control you have with a software encoder or a much more expensive hardware encoder. They're good for recording TV shows, but if you need to edit the video or assemble it for DVD you'll want to have the control over the encoding that something like TMPGEnc can offer.

[offline]

You're wrong, Mr Xeon. It does, and it is. I never believed it myself until I had to build one a few months back. I've benchmarked encoding times with it.

Could you join us at the Videohelp.com Video Benchmark sticky
and do the tmpgenc batch test?

At the moment we only have one high end AMD, Cobra's nice
new 64 3500.