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And it is a quantum leap. I'm starting this thread as a continuation from this one:
https://www.videohelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=67670&forum=2&start=30
in order to change the topic to MMC 7.5.
Couple of preliminaries before I run it through its paces. First it installed fine on a AIW Pro 128 on a Win98se box. Well it installed fine on one box so far and I'm working on a second and have had some problems with TV Player on the second. Not sure what the problem is but its running fine on the first box. What I've noticed so far:
1. It now has a 3:2 pulldown option. Yes!
2. It will segment captures like virtual dub. You can set capture file lengths. 800 megs for example. No more 4 gig file limits in 98 for mpeg2 captures! Yess!!!
3. All the splash screen now say version 7.5
4. It looks really COOL.
5. And tons more!
Going to run it through its paces now!!!
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did you do a normal uninstall of 7.2 first, or did you install over the top of it?
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You are better off going here. It's much faster:
http://www.subzerotech.com/news/files/MmcDvd75.exe
So, next - is it any good?
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does it have a SVCD setting in it?
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how about the secail number to unzip thanks
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Installed it and so far it works great, direct vcd 2.0 looks better than it did under 7.2. Haven't tried svcd yet but from what I read a rage3d it should work fine, no 4 gig limit, although I run winxp so that wasn't an issue, tv on demand works fine as does dvd player. Tried a capture at 640 x 480 at 99 motion with less than 1% frames dropped.
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this is the site I downloaded from, 30 min dowload and no serial number to unzip:
ftp://208.37.167.32/%20/tagged/mmcdvd7.zip
that is the first I heard of that!
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got this off the rage 3d site and so fr I am having simular results!
The only codec that dropped noticeable frames was the WMV. Here are the results using all codecs included in ATi captured all at one minute each ( all audio set to stereo ) :
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*WMV Local Use : 640 x 480 30fps ( 1470Kbps ) - 10.9MB ~ 6% frames dropped
*WMV Cable/DSL Modem : 320 x 240 30fps ( 223Kbps ) - 1.67MB ~ 0% frames dropped
*VCR Full Res. (CCIR-601) : 720 x 480 NTSC ( 7.20M Bit/s ) - 48.7MB ~ <1% frames dropped
*AVI VGA Resolution : 640 x 480, 29.970fps, UYVY - 1.05GB!!! ~ 0% frames dropped
*MPEG-2 (.mp2) DVD HIGH : 720 x 480 NTSC ( 8.00M Bit/s ) - 53.8MB ~ 0% frames dropped
*MPEG-1 (.mpg) Quarter Res. (CIF) : 352 x 240 NTSC ( 2.40M Bit/s ) - 19.4MB ~ 0% frames dropped
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Now time for quality. All captures viewed at full screen ( 1600 x 1200 ). IMHO here are the results :
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*WMV Local : Quality : Good. Noticeable audio/video desync.
*WMV Cable/DSL Modem : Quality : Terrible. I recommend not using this particular setting. Some audio/video desync.
*VCR Full Res. : Quality : Good. About the same as WMV Local. But WMV Local is about 5 times less in MB.
*AVi Full Res. : Quality : Great. But I notice lines across the screen. And to be honest, 1.05GB/min isnt just worth it.
*MPEG-2 : Quality : Good. Much of the same as WMV and VCR. But I have noticed, this codec has improved from the old MMCs.
*MPEG-1 : Quality : Good. IMHO, this looks about the same quality as the MPEG-2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In the Video Review of the 8500DV, the ATi representative mentioned that there is a new improved interlacing method and I think it really shows in the MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. That's my short review on capturing in MMC 7.5.
As far as Time-Shifting, I have not noticed any lockups or crashes. I have Time-Shifted for one minute.
So there you have it!
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Ok I'll answer for everyone who's asking
from my personal experience with this new 7.5 - I installed RIGHT OVER 7.1 --- because..... I'm lazy
but it doesn't seem to matter one bit - it worked just fine
it doesn't seem to keep your old 'custom profiles' and I have no idea if my MMC tool works with this version yet
also the new 'skin' is UGLY -- not sure if you can change it or not
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he he he he :smile: it looks like my tool still works 100% ... (I'm happy I don't have to re-code anything)
this is a much improved product IMHO! bravo ATI
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Sorry about the password for the zip. I didn't know it needed one when I put up the link but it is contained in one of the posts here so if you poked around, you already have it. It's "rage3d" no quotes.
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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-06 18:57:16, Stinky wrote:
he he he he :smile: it looks like my tool still works 100% ... (I'm happy I don't have to re-code anything)
this is a much improved product IMHO! bravo ATI
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey Stinky!!....Long time. You still da man!!!
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BTW, I installed without removing 7.1 also because for some reason my "remove" option didn't work. Probably due to the upgrade from Win2k to XP without re-installing. Anyway, 7.5 worked, and I am still using stock XP video driver. I'm considering the new 3286 version drivers for XP but one install a night is enough. Also, I agree with stinky; the new skin is UGLY. I didn't notice any real performance changes but I haven't played with it much yet. There are some new compression types that weren't available before also.
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Hey, dose this new Version 7.5 get rid of Macrovision(The Messed up color, and not being able to capture)?
If it dose not do any of you know how to get rid of the Macrovision?
I have an ATI All in Wonder 128 Pro 32 Meg.
I am running windows 98.
If you know how to or if this version dose get rid of Macrovision Please Post it or Email me at dbztitanium@hotmail.com.
Thanks Alot
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I don't know about the macrovision. I never had the problem with anything I captured but I have never capped from VHS, only from cable, satellite or camcorder. I still don't see any sign of a problem but I guess that's not much help.
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if some has the number to unzip mmc 7.5 please make a post here thank's
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Thanks for the Reply ngnr,
I forgot to say that The Macrovision only Happens when I Try to Capture from VHS or DVD. If anyone knows please Post, Thanks
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7.5 still crashes my whole system (Win XP). But I "think" it's my VIA KT133 chipset. Ergh!
For Macrovision removal you need either a TBC or one of those little devices that replace the video sync signal.
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any body else have it set off there anti virus?
it works on kt133a chipset no prob
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Whatis a TBC? and where can i get one? And what are those little devices that replace the video sync signal? And where can I get one?
Please Post if you Know! Thanks
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Do a search for "TBC" cause I'm lazier than you.
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Why are the download files listed above over 40Mb when the 7.5MMC download from the ATI site is just over 8Mb?? What is different with the above releases, and would I not be better downloading from the official ATI site rather than someones FTP folder?
Oh, and TBC stands for "Time Base Corrector" a device that basically replaces dodgy sync pulses on a video signal, and since Macrovision operates by inserting some "dodgy" sync pulses of its own, if you replace the whole header you automatically get rid of Macrovision! However my complaint about the ATI card and Macrovision is that it was Macro coding a signal that didn't have any Macrovision on it in the first place!! I believe the new drivers have fixed this, but they were causing a lot of problems with MMC 7.1 so I removed them again. I might try a full re-install of the new drivers and MMC 7.5 on Sunday and se if my humble 500MHz AMD will capture any better. Stay posted!!
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An update on 7.5 on my system, The dvd player caused some system problems in xp, probubly why ati removed it from mmc 7.2 for xp, I removed 7.5 completely, restored the system then reloaded only the tv/capture function as I never used ati's file, vcd or dvd player anyway. Now every thing seems to be fine with no system hang-ups. If anyone else is having this problem this may help you.
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And I also agree the skin is UGLY!!!....lol
But the capture functions work MMMMMMuch better!
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for everyone that is asking the zip password is 'rage3d' and if you want to get rid of Macrovison just there is a patch that gets rid of it for ati cards. It is at http://www.doom9.net/software2 towards the bottom of the page. I haven't gotten to put this through it's paces yet but I'm looking forward to it.
Macros
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much thanks to all of you who have helped with providing this app and your experiences with it. My stupid TV wonder card has had an "off and on" usefulness for the year I've owned it. Hopefully this new software will get it back into the "on" zone.
Best Regards,
AMG
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How come I can't find the mmc 7.5 anywhere on the ATI site?
For XP, they have 7.2, for 2000 and below, only 7.1.
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ATI will post it eventually - someone probably got a new ATI MMC 7.5 CD-ROM and ripped it and made it available on the net before ATI wanted to put it up for download.
I'm guessing that it came from a CD-ROM because it had the DVD player in it wihout a serial number
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Macros, that link didn't work, at least at 3:30pm PST.
Also, I've heard other capture cards have problems with the KT133 chipset, but not the KT133a.
If only I could add an "a"!
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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-07 06:17:14, sommersby wrote:
And I also agree the skin is UGLY!!!....lol
But the capture functions work MMMMMMuch better!
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
You can change the skin back to the "classic" version using the ATI multimedia control panel.
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OK, I've tried it, and I'm just a bit confused...
I can't decide if 7.5 is (will be)? better or worse than other versions...
Has anyone else noticed these things about MMC 7.5?
1 - CPU efficiency (measured in % usage) has been improved, but just a bit?
2 - Overall MPEG-2 quality has definitely gone DOWNHILL? I compared MPEG-2, 480x480 with 7.2 and 7.5, 6.00 MB bitrate (constant), Deinterlace, Visual Mask, 100 quality motion search. The 7.5 quality showed lots of blocks and motion problems.
3 - INTERLACED captures may not be true INTERLACED? (could be imagining this)
4 - Just what does "Inverse 3:2 pulldown" mode do? I tried it, and whether capturing interlaced or filtered, quality is BAD. Interlace artifacts even show up when the "Deinterlace" is on. How is that supposed to work? Am I using it wrong?
5 - Overall performance being very erratic? Like, when I first loaded it and tested... I tried capturing "DVD HIGH" mode, 720x480, MPEG-2, 8.00MB/sec. I never could do this in other MMC's, yet it worked on 7.5!.. ONCE. It will work well sometimes, but drop frames others. And, seconds apart. (I could be imagining this also).
Weird stuff... has anyone had good results for capturing? Or am I just doing something wrong here?
BTW: all tests I did were using 6.00MB/sec bitrate, so when I compare quality, I'm using that rate.
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Two other observations: (or are they questions)?
- The files output for MPEG-2 mode are still .mp2, but now they are even stranger... now, if you open them in DVD2AVI (in order to get TMPGEnc etc to see them), it opens it twice, once with an asterisk. You can delete one and it will open the video with just one of the files. Then, under "Preview", it plays too fast. Tha could be the fact it was "Inverse 3:2 pulldown video"... whatever than means.
- One possible improvement? When I did drop frames (still pretty often I have to say), it didn't corript the capture any. Previous MMC's would corrupt an entire capture file, if even one frame was dropped. I typically dropped <1% to 3% of frames (depending on test), but every test clip played without crashing.
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SORRY for the double-post, the forum isn't letting me delete...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-12-07 20:15:12 ]</font>
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Homerpez - once again you are obviously doing something wrong. Just trying to help here but in response to your points:
1. That's right. CPU effiency has improved.
2. Mpeg quality has improved. That's been my experience as well as the experience of many many posters on numerous boards. Sorry but you seem like the odd man out.
3. Yup. Imagined.
4. If its bad for you then don't use it.
5. Erratic. Too bad but this seems to be a constant theme for you. I'm beginning to think that you may have to do a fresh OS install. This may give your box a fresh start.
Good luck!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: next on 2001-12-07 20:23:22 ]</font>
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homerpez - as far as mp2. Just save the file as mpg or simply rename the extension to mpg after you save. If you're trying to use the ATI mp2 extension in 3rd party programs you're stuck in a dead end. This fix is extremely simple.
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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
You can change the skin back to the "classic" version using the ATI multimedia control panel.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
SWEEET! .... that looks so much better!
'classic' ... ha ha ha! it should be 'not ugly' :-)
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I'm sorry, next, you seem to hate my #&^@$% guts. Oh, well. Se la vie.
Anyeay, Just to satisfy my interest, what IS Inverse 3:2 pulldown? I suspect it takes 29.97 and captures is at 23.976 instead... bt why? (tried it, it's skipping fields).
So help me, I am not making up the quality issue. I can set motion search to "100", Bitrate to 6.00MB/sec (higher than I used before), and even a smaller frame size (480x480 instead of 640x480). There IS a motion estimation problem, and the capture looks really sloppy.
I even cranked up the search ranges to 256 horiz and 128 vertical, still does it. It's more blocky than MMC 7.2 or earlier, especially after a scene change. Hmmm. I'v tested all modes, all filters. This is a new phenomena to 7.5.
I guess it's like ATI, fixing the one problem I had with MMC, and breaking all other things that worked right. :smile:
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homerpez - Inverse 3:2 pulldown (IVTC) is designed to take a 23fps film which has been converted to 29fps and revert it back to 23fps. ANY frame droppage may through this off, and only some TV captures will benefit from it. You also have to set a 3:2 pulldown on playback flag.
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Close.
3:2 pulldown is for material that was originally shot on film and later transfered to video, like a movie.
When transfering to video, they repeat one field (a video frame is made up of two fields) every other frame (or something similar - I'm too tired to look it up right now).
The reason this is done is because a movie is shot at 24 frames per second, but video (in the US) is shot at 29.97 frames per second.
Adding the extra fields makes up for the difference. 3:2 pulldown removes these extra fields so that when you watch the movie on a computer monitor (or HDTV) the resulting image is closer to the original.
