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Poor resizing method by AutoGK
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helloworld123
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Joined: 26 May 2009
Location: Asia
Post Posted: Jun 07, 2009 11:34 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I've recently converted an mpeg file (Star Wars Trailer) using AutoGK. Here is the info from MediaInfo about the input file.

Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 132 MiB
Duration : 2mn 8s
Overall bit rate : 8 651 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 2mn 8s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.772
Stream size : 122 MiB (92%)

Audio
ID : 192 (0xC0)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 2mn 8s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 320 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 4.89 MiB (4%)

I used this settings in AutoGK:

Custom Size: 35 MB
Output Resolution Settings: Fixed width at 720
Output Audio type: VBR MP3, 256 kbps
Codec: XviD
FPS: 23.976
Force Sharp Matrix for XviD: Enabled
Correct Color if Needed: Enabled
Correction Type: Accurate
Enable Standalone Compatibility: Enabled
Standalone Chipset: ESS

I had this problem after converting the video:

Try to look at the Warner Bros' Border.

and try to look on the lighsaber.

Those blocking lines (correct my term) appears on the video.

How do I fix this problem?

jagabo
Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: none
Post Posted: Jun 07, 2009 11:42 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
It looks like it did a nearest neighbor (aka point) resize. Look for resizing options like bilinear, bicubic, lanczos3.

It's also possible the problem was caused by a drop-field deinterlace.

manono
Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Post Posted: Jun 07, 2009 11:44 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Where's the poor resize? Obviously the Warner logo has a slightly different aspect ratio than does the rest of the movie. Would you rather it crop to the logo and then have too much being cropped from the movie itself? That's possible, if that's what you want.
jagabo wrote:
It looks like it did a nearest neighbor (aka point) resize. Look for resizing options like bilinear, bicubic, lanczos3.

It's also possible the problem was caused by a drop-field deinterlace.

AutoGK uses LanczosResize unless the compressibility doesn't permit. Then (I think) it drops down to a Bicubic. It deinterlaces using KernelDeint. However, for a film like this I expect it's all progressive and it wouldn't even have been IVTC'd - just a Force Film in DGIndex. There's no way to know for sure, though, unless helloworld123 posts the AutoGK log so we can see what it did.

Of course, there's always the chance that if this is an Asian DVD that it's funky for one reason or another (field-blended and the like) and only a manual encode can do justice to it.

helloworld123
Member


Joined: 26 May 2009
Location: Asia
Post Posted: Jun 07, 2009 12:24 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Here's the AutoGK's log:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?vywzdwzmq4h

manono wrote:
Where's the poor resize? Obviously the Warner logo has a slightly different aspect ratio than does the rest of the movie. Would you rather it crop to the logo and then have too much being cropped from the movie itself? That's possible, if that's what you want.


I didn't manually cropped the video. It remains the same AR as I downloaded the trailer. I downloaded the HD trailer from Apple.com then converts it to mpeg using CCE.

Here is the snapshot of the Mpeg Version:



Mpeg version Info:
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 132 MiB
Duration : 2mn 8s
Overall bit rate : 8 651 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 2mn 8s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.772
Stream size : 122 MiB (92%)

Audio
ID : 192 (0xC0)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 2mn 8s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 320 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 4.89 MiB (4%)

Here's the AVI version (34.89 MB):
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?q2tjazmqzmh

jagabo
Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: none
Post Posted: Jun 07, 2009 12:35 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Starting with your MPEG image resized to 720x480, the using VirtualDub's Duplicate Field Deinterlace option gives almost exactly the same result:



helloworld123
Member


Joined: 26 May 2009
Location: Asia
Post Posted: Jun 07, 2009 13:21 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I saw the log file. AutoGK did interpret the video to be interlaced and performed deinterlace.

From the log file:
[6/8/2009 12:07:49 AM] Source has percentage of interlacing in motion areas: 13.07
[6/8/2009 12:07:49 AM] Source has percentage of telecined patterns: 1.08
[6/8/2009 12:07:49 AM] Source has percentage of progressive patterns: 87.10
[6/8/2009 12:07:49 AM] Source has percentage of interlaced patterns: 11.83
[6/8/2009 12:07:49 AM] Source is considered to be interlaced.

How do I correct this?

manono
Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Post Posted: Jun 07, 2009 19:16 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
helloworld123 wrote:
I didn't manually cropped the video. It remains the same AR as I downloaded the trailer. I downloaded the HD trailer from Apple.com then converts it to mpeg using CCE.

You don't understand. The logo is wider/narrower than is the video itself. If the video is 720x304, the the logo with all the black cropped away might come out to be 720x296 or something like that. Since for AVI the whole thing has to be the same resolution, then the logo is padded out with black to give it the same resolution as the main video. By adjusting the crop in the Hidden options of AutoGK you could get rid of the black in the logo, but that would mean cutting into the active video of the main part of the trailer. Another alternative, but it would mean a manual encode, is to crop all the black from the Logo and then resize it to the same resolution as the main video. It's very easy to do using AviSynth's Trim command and would result in the logo having a very slight aspect error.

And yes, apparently this thing, or at least a part of it (maybe only the logo?), is interlaced. All that can be done is to deinterlace. All the fast deinterlacers (KernelDeint, in this case) will have problems with diagonal lines and thin lines. To make sure that AutoGK did its analysis correctly (that it's really just interlaced with nothing else peculiar about it), a small sample will be needed. The finished AVI really isn't very useful. The fact that it's showing as 87.10% progressive makes me somewhat suspicious that it's not being handled in the best way possible. The best way might require manually creating the AviSynth script and a manual encode. Maybe point us to a link for the trailer so we can have a look at it.

helloworld123
Member


Joined: 26 May 2009
Location: Asia
Post Posted: Jun 08, 2009 09:21 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Here's the link:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/starwarstheclonewars/
Trailer 3 - HD 480p

Direct Link: http://movies.apple.com/movies/wb/starwarsclonewars/starwarsclone ... _h480p.mov

Another thing, I dont know how to create AviSynth script and I have a lot of trailers to convert other than this, so I can't manually convert them.

manono
Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Post Posted: Jun 08, 2009 10:42 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I don't understand. These are MOV files, a format AutoGK doesn't support. Where's the MPG you showed us earlier? In any event they don't need deinterlacing - only a decimation as every 5th frame is a duplicate frame. AutoGK can't handle this kind of file (either MOV or simple decimation) properly. You'll have to either do it manually or keep what you already have.

As for the black bars above and below the Warner logo, even that MOV trailer has them. I don't know why you'd expect AutoGK to handle it any differently.

helloworld123
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Joined: 26 May 2009
Location: Asia
Post Posted: Jun 08, 2009 10:47 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Well, I wanted the trailers to be standalone compatible so I converted the trailer into MPEG2-DVD format using CCE (since AutoGK doesn't support .mov) and convert it to XviD using AutoGK. Could it be a bug in AutoGK that the video was mistakenly identified as interlace?

Last edited by helloworld123 on Jun 08, 2009 11:08, edited 1 time in total
manono
Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Post Posted: Jun 08, 2009 11:04 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
helloworld123 wrote:
Well, I wanted the trailers to be standalone compatible so I converted the trailer into MPEG2-DVD format using CCE (since AutoGK doesn't support .mov) and convert it to XviD using AutoGK. Could it be a bug in AutoGK that the video was mistakenly identified as interlace?

There's a chance (a good chance) that my player was deinterlacing when I was playing it. In any event, we need a piece of the source you used for the AutoGK encode - your CCE reencode. Cut a small 10 second piece using DGIndex and upload it to a 3rd party filehosting site, a place like MediaFire.

So you take a MOV file and reencode it in CCE before then making an XviD out of it? How'd you get the MOV file into CCE if not with an AviSynth script? My CCE doesn't take MOV files directly.

And doesn't your standalone play CCE output authored for DVD? If your main concern is standalone compatibility, it seems to me it would be way easier just to make a DVD out of it. Is there more here than meets the eye?

helloworld123
Member


Joined: 26 May 2009
Location: Asia
Post Posted: Jun 08, 2009 11:30 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Here's the screenshots I made to prove that .mov can be imported to CCE



Here's the clip from the MPEG version:
http://rapidshare.com/files/242295817/Star_Wars_-_The_Clone_Wars_ ... d.m2v.html

jagabo
Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: none
Post Posted: Jun 08, 2009 12:07 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Your MPG file is 29.97 fps progressive with every 4th frame duplicated to convert a 23.976 fps source to 29.97 fps. AutoGK tried to deinterlace it which futher screwed it up.

<edit>
I got the MOV from the apple web site. The duplicate frames are in it too. A quick decimation with AviSynth and conversion to Xvid AVI:

Code:
DirectShowSource("G:\Downloads\starwarsclonewars-tlr3_h480p.mov")
SelectEvery(5,1,2,3,4)
BilinearResize(640, 272)

http://rapidshare.com/files/242327836/sw.avi.html
</edit>

manono
Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Post Posted: Jun 08, 2009 13:07 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
helloworld123 wrote:
Here's the screenshots I made to prove that .mov can be imported to CCE

Thank you. I didn't realize SP2 could import them directly. I should have said I was using the SP 2.70 version. In any event, it still seems like wasted effort as you could be making a DVD from it (as I think you said you already did) for playing on the standalone.

As far as I know, there's no all-in-one app that will do what's required here - just remove the duplicate frames to make it 23.976fps. Nor is there any way to get AutoGK to just leave it alone and not deinterlace at all (unless you use one of the 3rd party add-ons for AutoGK which allow editing of the .avs so you can remove the deinterlace line). It does seem to be a mistake to find any interlaced frames at all (as the log says it did), and it's not designed to spot and then remove duplicate frames to handle this kind of source. Neither does the "Force IVTC" box in the Hidden Options work unless the source had been determined to be a hybrid (which this wasn't).

Your source is a bit unusual, and as is often the case for such sources, it's best handled manually (as jagabo demonstrated).

helloworld123
Member


Joined: 26 May 2009
Location: Asia
Post Posted: Jun 11, 2009 05:59 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
jagabo wrote:
Your MPG file is 29.97 fps progressive with every 4th frame duplicated to convert a 23.976 fps source to 29.97 fps. AutoGK tried to deinterlace it which futher screwed it up.

<edit>
I got the MOV from the apple web site. The duplicate frames are in it too. A quick decimation with AviSynth and conversion to Xvid AVI:

Code:
DirectShowSource("G:\Downloads\starwarsclonewars-tlr3_h480p.mov")
SelectEvery(5,1,2,3,4)
BilinearResize(640, 272)

http://rapidshare.com/files/242327836/sw.avi.html
</edit>


Thanks guys for the help. I used Gordian Knot instead of AutoGK to fix the problem. I wonder how did you do the video http://rapidshare.com/files/242327836/sw.avi.html? I can't achieve that kind of quality below 800 kbps. I followed all tutorials on the net about XviD settings but I always end up a blocky video on that range. Is it the plugins or just some manipulation on the script?

jagabo
Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: none
Post Posted: Jun 11, 2009 07:20 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I don't remember exactly but I think this is close: I used the indicated AviSynth script, imported into VirtualDub in Fast Recompress mode, and set Xvid to Single Pass, Target Quantizer, Quantizer=4 (I would normally use 3 for higher quality but I wanted something smaller for upload). I'm using a version of Xvid that supports Adaptive Quantization (added about a year ago) which gets you an additional ~25 percent compression.

I used BilinearResize() because that produces video that compresses a little better, though it's not as sharp as BicubicResize() or LanczosResize().

From the amount of DCT ringing in the MPAA warning it looks like I used the MPEG quantization matrix which gives sharper results but leads to more DCT ringing and less compression.

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