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VCD shrink ??
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Post Posted: May 25, 2009 11:22 Posts Reply with quote
Hey!!!
Like DVD shrink , the very useful and famous software..
is there any same for managing VCD files..

Thnkx.
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yoda313
Regular joe


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: sector 001
Post Posted: May 25, 2009 11:40 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Not exactly. VCD is a fixed format. In generic terms its 80mins on a 80min cdr.

There are nonstandard xvcd or kvcd templates you can use to squeeze more video on a vcd. However these are nonstandard and not gaurenteed to play on every vcd compatible player.

Another option is to buy some 90minute or 99minute cdrs to have more space. However again these aren't standard discs. Some players will read them and others won't.
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johns0
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Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Location: canada
Post Posted: May 25, 2009 17:56 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
You can author vcd mpegs as dvd then shrink the crap out of them.
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Post Posted: May 26, 2009 05:54 Posts Reply with quote
I think you people havn't used DVD Shrink yet ???
please help me!!!! sad.gif
I have some corrupted VCD movies
I'm not able to copy them to PC
I want a software like DVD shrink that can let me do
anything with DVD movies.

Baldrick
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Joined: 09 Aug 2000
Location: Sweden
Post Posted: May 26, 2009 05:56 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Try copy the vcds using using isobuster or vcdgear, extract the video files to mpg video files. See http://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/141726.php

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Post Posted: May 26, 2009 05:58 Posts Reply with quote
Thnkx!!!
Admin biggrin.gif

PuzZLeR
WiLd CaRd


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Location: Toronto Canada
Post Posted: May 26, 2009 06:38 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
johns0 wrote:
You can author vcd mpegs as dvd then shrink the crap out of them.
Do you mean as MPEG-2 (converted)?

Though MPEG-2 has a range of values on DvD, I thought that the MPEG-1 that DvD accepts is exactly like that accepted on VCD - a fixed bitrate, etc. No flexibility.

As well, from my understanding, you can't shrink MPEG-2 that much either. Though most people will say MPEG-2 is "better" than MPEG-1, believe it or not, MPEG-1 is better suited for these low bitrates. MPEG-2 was designed, and optimized, for the higher quality, higher bitrates for the then up-and-coming "next thing", the DvD.
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jman98
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Joined: 08 Oct 2004
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Post Posted: May 26, 2009 10:12 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
PuzZLeR wrote:

Though MPEG-2 has a range of values on DvD, I thought that the MPEG-1 that DvD accepts is exactly like that accepted on VCD - a fixed bitrate, etc. No flexibility.

As well, from my understanding, you can't shrink MPEG-2 that much either. Though most people will say MPEG-2 is "better" than MPEG-1, believe it or not, MPEG-1 is better suited for these low bitrates. MPEG-2 was designed, and optimized, for the higher quality, higher bitrates for the then up-and-coming "next thing", the DvD.


That's not quite right about MPEG-1 on DVD. While use of MPEG-1 is restricted to VCD resolution, bit rates of up to 1856 Kbps are OK.

I've heard people say before that MPEG-1 is better suited for lower bitrates than MPEG-2, but I've seen no hard evidence to back that up. It may or may not be true. I'm just saying that I'd like to see some stats proving it rather than just blindly accepting this as fact.

And MPEG video can be shrunk a LOT. If you convert a DVD from an average bit rate of 4000 Kbps to 400 Kbps, you'll show space savings of about 90%, but the real question is whether the final output is even watchable.

PuzZLeR
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Location: Toronto Canada
Post Posted: May 26, 2009 23:13 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
jman98 wrote:
That's not quite right about MPEG-1 on DVD. While use of MPEG-1 is restricted to VCD resolution, bit rates of up to 1856 Kbps are OK.
Since I haven't used MPEG-1 in years, I honestly couldn't remember its role with DvD. That's why I pointed out that I wasn't sure. But that cleared it up. smile.gif
jman98 wrote:
I've heard people say before that MPEG-1 is better suited for lower bitrates than MPEG-2, but I've seen no hard evidence to back that up. It may or may not be true. I'm just saying that I'd like to see some stats proving it rather than just blindly accepting this as fact.
AFAIK, I have seen no quantifiable data on it. However, I can personally conclude this with a few empirical tests.

I do know that the law of diminishing returns did apply to MPEG-1 (originally named just MPEG). MPEG-1 was never designed for the later demands of DvD. It wasn't as simple as just beefing up the bitrate/rez to it otherwise there would have never been an MPEG-2.

On the contrary, MPEG-2 was designed for these higher quality formats, but not as compressible as MPEG-1. If MPEG-2 was made to be watchable at less than 1500kbps it would take away from its optimization for high quality video. There was MPEG-1 for sub-par quality for the lower bitrates.

Those were the fundamental differences between MPEG 1 and 2 with the tech back then.
jman98 wrote:
And MPEG video can be shrunk a LOT. If you convert a DVD from an average bit rate of 4000 Kbps to 400 Kbps, you'll show space savings of about 90%, but the real question is whether the final output is even watchable.
I guess I was unclear. Yes, you could shrink MPEG-2 down to microcosms, but I meant what was your "real question" - it simply wouldn't be watchable. MPEG-1 beats MPEG-2 easily at the very low, low bitrates.

Test and see for yourself with the same script/source for both encodes.

You will notice that MPEG-2 looks nicer at 5000kbps+. MPEG-1 isn't as effective here.

However, under 1000kbps, or even under 1500kbps, MPEG-2 becomes a canvas of undecipherable blocks while MPEG-1 maintains something that is, at least on smaller screens, something that is very watchable and recognizable to the original.
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johns0
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Joined: 05 Jun 2002
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Post Posted: May 27, 2009 00:23 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
PuzZLeR wrote:
johns0 wrote:
You can author vcd mpegs as dvd then shrink the crap out of them.
Do you mean as MPEG-2 (converted)?


Vcd authored as dvd can be shrunk by dvdshrink and a mpg2 352x480 good source file encoded at 1150cbr is better than a 352x240 mpg1 vcd.
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lordsmurf
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Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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Post Posted: May 27, 2009 00:28 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I've also run empirical tests on this, ages ago -- MPEG-1 was indeed better in many cases, compared to MPEG-2 and similar low-res size and bitrate.
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tomlee59
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Location: Palo Alto, California USA
Post Posted: May 28, 2009 13:59 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Anurag wrote:
I think you people havn't used DVD Shrink yet ???
please help me!!!! sad.gif
I have some corrupted VCD movies
I'm not able to copy them to PC
I want a software like DVD shrink that can let me do
anything with DVD movies.


You seem to be making some confusing (or just plain confused) assumptions. DVD shrink doesn't repair corrupted movies, it shrinks uncorrupted ones.

If you are trying to copy VCDs that have some mutant form of copy protection (AFAIK, India is the primary place you'll run into these, although on rare occasions these will show up in other parts of Asia), then ISOBuster is your best bet. There have already been threads here on this very topic, though, and ISOBuster was reportedly not successful in ripping VCDs that use the latest copy-protection schemes. Just try it and see.

VCDgear, as mentioned, is a useful tool to have. It will convert, for example, .dat files into ordinary .mpg files, making it easy to use still other tools for further processing. It can also do some simple repair of mildly damaged or not-quite compliant files. Maybe that will solve your problem, if your VCDs are simply slightly damaged, as opposed to copy-protected. VCDgear is not a ripper, so don't expect it to do that.

If you are trying to shrink the size of files, then reauthoring as DVD, then applying DVDShrink is possibly a good approach. The algorithms used by Shrink seem to be pretty smart. The requantizing it does generally yields superior results to a full re-encode from MPEG1 to MPEG1. I've never used DVDShrink on MPEG1 material this way, but I assume that it would work just fine.

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Post Posted: Jun 02, 2009 12:56 Posts Reply with quote
Thnkx...to all smile.gif

SatStorm
The Old One


Joined: 10 Aug 2000
Location: Hellas (Greece), E.U.
Post Posted: Jun 02, 2009 16:09 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I use occasionally Mpeg 1, because it is "public domain" and works on everything.

Mpeg 1 is only progressive, so it can be filtered better interlace mpeg 2. Also, it seems that it does it better with low bitrates (around 1.8 and lower).

But shrinking is not the best approach, IMO. Re-encoding with some filtering, is.

After you extract the mpeg 1 file, load it to virtualdub and add a couple of filters, like msu smart deblocking and msu denoise (which doesn't really denoise much, but helps a lot with compression). Then frameserve and re-encode to mpeg 1 at bitrates 800-1000kb/s. On 352x288/240 it looks decent that way.

With today's CPUs, that is not so slow as it used to be some years ago. Not as fast as DVD Shrink, but far better in my opinion.
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