I downloaded the original sample DV AVI file once you finally got it posted proper but haven't had much of a chance to play with it.
However all this talk of deinterlacing is hurting my head. If you intend this MP4 to be an "archive" then you DO NOT want to deinterlace. Period. No questioning it.
The real question is this: Can you do this with H.264 and the MP4 container and can it then be successfully re-encoded at some point to a different interlaced format? I think the answer is YES based on the bad quality sample I played with earlier. However I still need to test this and also there is a question of what it will look like when playing it back (since you don't want interlacing to be seen on a progressive display).
I have to play with this further though and I hope to do that before the (extra long) weekend is over. I work for a bank so no work for me on Monday and I get paid
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
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"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
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Originally Posted by poisondeathray
To do 59.94 fps, all you need to do is change Yadif's mode so it doesn't do half rate deinterlacing (29.97) but full rate deinterlacing. Halfrate is akin to Bob().SelectEven().
Deinterlacers like MCBob and MVBob do 59.94 at default, and if you want 29.97 fps you need to manually decimate. -
Well I got a chance to test some stuff out. Using the DV AVI sample tkd.avi I converted it to MP4 twice. The first conversion I called tkd_30fps.mp4 and it is 29.970fps interlaced and the second conversion I called tkd_60fps.mp4 and it is 59.940fps progressive.
The good news is that the 59.940fps MP4 file plays smooth as butter and looks pretty darn good. I tested it on my computer as well as on my Sony PS3 which is connected to a 51 inch 16x9 WS 1080i HDTV (Hitachi CRT Rear Projection). Looks great.
Only problem is ... I can't figure out how to convert it back to standard 29.970fps interlaced NTSC DV AVI and I'm not even sure if that is possible. I'd like to think that it is but if it is then I have no clue as to how to do it.
Now the 29.970fps MP4 file does show interlaced artifacts when you play it back on the computer and on the Sony PS3 although on the Sony PS3 it (the interlacing) was more "subtle" somehow. However it does convert rather nicely back to standard 29.970fps interlaced NTSC DV AVI and yet the MP4 is approximately 1/4 the size of the original DV AVI file (well it is slightly over 1/4 but not by much). So if you need to archive the DV AVI but save space then this could work.
Below are the file links:
1.) tkd_30fps.mp4 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/lrz5t19mqnl/tkd_30fps.mp4
2.) tkd_60fps.mp4 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/2wv4kwm2md1/tkd_60fps.mp4
3.) tkd_30fps.avi ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/95zsmzjtfmn/tkd_30fps.avi
The third file above is the first file converted back to DV AVI and while I do see some ... dare I say minor ... compression artifacts it still looks good. The idea was to see how the end result would look (DV to MP4 then back to DV) for those thinking of this as an "archive" solution (compressed MP4).
I haven't tested this but both MP4 files I created are I believe within the AVCHD spec so you should be able to make an AVCHD DVD-R disc or AVCHD Blu-Ray disc and play it back on any Blu-Ray player that supports AVCHD.
However I did see some interlacing with the 29.970fps MP4 file on my PS3 and I'm not sure why ... it shouldn't be there as per my understanding of how the PS3 works. Maybe I'm wrong and H.264 cannot "properly" handle interlaced video.
Perhaps I'll do a VC-1 test next as that will also play on the PS3 and should support interlaced video ...
As it stands now it seems that for H.264 you need to go progressive 59.940fps for smooth playback but going back to 29.970fps interlaced may not be possible. It looks good as the "end" result but may not be a good idea to use as an "archive" compared to DV AVI. The 29.970fps H.264 converts back to interlaced DV AVI nicely making it a good "archive" but not a good playback "end" result format. Argh !!!
Comments from someone that knows more than me about H.264 please LOL
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Originally Posted by poisondeathray
The 29.970fps interlaced MP4 I created seems "proper" in that when I converted back to interlaced DV AVI it appears to match the original DV AVI
It just didn't look so "hot" on my Sony PS3
BTW I forgot to mention that the MP4 made by the original poster ... the file called tkd4096.mp4 ... did not play at all on the Sony PS3.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Fulci - Sorry for misarticulating my original intention. I plan to archive my videos on the original camcorder tape as well as store the full DV-AVI files on an external drive. My desire for conversion was to keep a smaller yet acceptably good quality copy of my videos for convenient playback from my internal harddrive, hence the desire to convert the video from interlaced to progressive.
Your 60fps sample video looked incredible when I was able to run it; however, my PC was not able to maintain playback smoothly (Win XP + dual Pentium 2.8GHz + 2.49GB RAM). I used VLC media player (QT wouldn't work at all).
So I have now been able to successfully convert the video into 4x3 progressive at ~30fps at 4Mbps which is acceptably good quality to me; however, I am still unable to generate an audio stream from the original DV-AVI file(which I understand needs to be later muxed with the video). I followed the MeGui conversion guide linked this site, as well as the wiki help, and tried several different audio encoder settings, but when I begin the queue it always generates an error on the audio file portion.
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1) check to make sure your audio program paths are set in MeGUI
2) use an .avs script to encode the audio (although you can for some files, I couldn't do it directly with your sample either)
DirectShowSource("PATH\tkd.avi",video=false)
You could have used the same script for both audio & video too:
DirectShowSource("PATH\tkd.avi",fps=29.97,audio=tr ue) -
Originally Posted by aybills
Originally Posted by aybills
I'm not sure what you mean by "dual Pentium 2.8Ghz" but that should be blazing fast if it is a true dual core or is it one of those Pentium D chips? If so then I could see how it would be too slow as the Pentium D is nearly as old as my processor and I would imagine it would be too slow. However QT sucks and VLC media player is not very "efficient" on a slow computer. You might want to try Media Player Classic instead. It is more "lightweight" and uses less "resources" so you might get better playback using it.
The 59.940fps MP4 file is 100% compatible with the Sony PS3 and should also work on a Microsoft XboX 360 (although I don't have one of those to test and confirm). You can simply burn to a DVD-R or DVD+R as a "data disc" and off you go.
As for the audio ... I had no trouble using XVID4PSP ... it handled the audio rather well (as you can tell from my samples). It was able to decode and encode the audio from the DV AVI without any issues. I used 256kbps CBR AAC-LC audio in both of my MP4 conversions.
One thing I would like to stress here ... you should consider using a PS3 / XboX 360 "profile" when doing the MP4 because 1.) You never know as you may get one of these devices or know someone that has one and wants to watch your MP4 files and 2.) They use a MP4 "standard" that is within computer hardware specs for hardware acceleration so if you have a low powered CPU but a video card that does hardware assisted decoding they will be able to hardware assist playback on such MP4 files whereas other MP4 files created using different "specs" may not be able to take advantage of this video card hardware assisted decoding which means you rely on pure CPU horsepower when playing back the clips. Of course this didn't help your current computer with my PS3 compatible 59.940fps MP4 but I'm guessing your current video card doesn't offer hardware assisted H.264 decoding (or if it does you don't have it set up correctly). I should point out that this usually means using Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic Home Cinema.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Tripod, Tripod, Tripod
. . .
Because of your dv source being Type 1, this might help you in your situation. However, I would consider checking your cam to see if you have the audio set to 32000 as default. Some cams do this. If it is, change it to 48000. Otherwise, your dv software (the one you use to transfer over firewire) is set up to 32000. You would have to change it to 48000. But do check the cam first so that you avoid unecessary conversion during the transfer or later steps. I don't know if you realize this. So, I'm pointing it out to now
. . .
If you want to remove the issue you are having with your audio, then you will have to demux your DV type 1 source into its two components: Video and Audio.
Then, you would MUX them back togther but this time into a DV Type 2 format.
Here are two methods for: DV Type 1 -> DV Type 2
DOWNLOAD from one of the sites or google it: "ffmpeg.0.4.9-prel.build.4743"
** http://esby.free.fr/CelticDruid/mirror/ffmpeg/
** https://www.videohelp.com/tools/ffmpeg
** or, search for this archive, as it worked flawless-ly in your tkd.avi test I ran
** using this version --> ffmpeg.0.4.9-prel.build.4743
Then, run the following command from a DOS window:
ffmpeg -i h:\tkd.avi -vcodec dvvideo -ac 2 -ar 48000 -acodec pcm_s16le -y h:\tkd_new.avi
Method 2:
Search for and download: "Virtualdub-mpeg2 1.6.15"
..it can do this. It will open your DV source and from there you can do the following:
A -- open your DV source
B -- Video\direct stream copy\
C -- F7, and save as a *new* avi source
* tdk.avi - in this pic, notice line 1 is only 1 stream. that means its seeing only video
* tdk_new.avi - in the 2nd line, you will see 2, for 2 streams. this means there is video/audio stream
Virtualdub will save to a *new* DV Type 2 format. You don't have to tell it the type, it will know what to do.
Your new dv source will now have two streams, and the rest of your video endeavor should go smoothly from there on. Older versions of virtualdub could not completely open Type 1 files. They would open as video only. But new-er verisons should. You just have to set to "direct stream copy" when you want to resave to a original container. In this case, by coencidense maybe, vdub is default to dv type 2.
Right now, as it stands, your audio is 32000, and when you convert to Type 2, it will be converted to 48000, but this can sometimes cause distortions. So, you might want to check it out. I think that in the ffmpeg above, it is converting 32000 -> 48000.
good luck,
-vhelp 4874 -
How to do it using XVID4PSP
Load up XVID4PSP
Change the FORMAT option to: MP4 PS3 or XBOX 360
Change the VIDEO ENCODING option to: x264 Q16 Ultra
The screen should look like this:
Now click on OPEN and select the DV AVI file. You will get a screen that pops up that looks like this:
Just click OK and then the video loads and you are back to the main screen (with the first frame of the video now visible as it has been loaded).
Now go ahead and click on VIDEO at the top (where is says File, Video, Audio, Subtitles, etc.) and under VIDEO select the option called INTERLACE/FRAMERATE and you will see the following:
We all know that the Field Order of DV AVI is BFF or Bottom Field First. So change the FIELD ORDER option to BFF instead of the default of UNKNOWN. At this point you are essentially "done" if you want to use the default deinterlacer "TomsMoComp" but there are other options. I don't pretend to know which is the best thing to use here ... well I would use "MCBob" but that sets the output to 59.940fps (which is how I made my 59.940fps progressive file) but we want deinterlaced 29.970fps so you don't want to use "MCBob". I decided to try "Yadif" and this is what my screen looks like:
When done click on OK.
Next up is the audio. The default is a bit low quality if you ask me. On the main screen next to where it says AUDIO ENCODING there is a LETTER "E" icon. Click on that and a window opens up that allows you to adjust the audio. In my example I am doing 256kbps CBR AAC-LC audio:
In the image above I simply changed the ENCODING MODE from ABR to CBR and then I changed the BITRATE from 128 to 256.
After clicking OK on the above I want to make sure that the audio is "proper" as I call it LOL
At the top click on AUDIO and under that select EDITING OPTIONS and you will see this screen pop up:
Change it so that it now looks like this:
Now click on OK.
That is all. You are "done". Well almost. It is now time to click on the ENCODE icon at the top.
OK you are finished ... almost. For some reason I can't figure XVID4PSP doesn't set the aspect ratio correctly. I had the same problem with the two MP4 files I made earlier. My solution? Run it through YAMB to set the aspect ratio. YAMB will then create a new MP4 with the aspect ratio set correctly. Inside YAMB you will select "4:3 NTSC" for the aspect ratio. The new file will now play correctly. Please note that the new file is simply an exact digital copy of the original except the header info is changed and thus the aspect ratio set proper.
There is another option to the aspect ratio "fix". In XVID4PSP there is an option under VIDEO called "Resolution/Aspect ..." and if you go in there you can change the output to 640x480 instead of 720x480. When you go there you will see the following:
See where it says 720 with a little down arrow next to it? Simply change that setting to 640 and click OK and the file will be 640x480 (instead of 720x480) which is a 1:1 pixel resolution. Thus the aspect ratio will be fine once you output from XVID4PSP and there is no need to worry about it.
Here is the AviSynth AVS script created if you do 720x480 resolution:
Code:import("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\AudioFunctions.avs") import("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\VideoFunctions.avs") loadcplugin("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\plugins\yadif.dll") DirectShowSource("C:\Documents and Settings\John Coleman\Desktop\DV2MP4\tkd.avi", fps=29.970, convertfps=true) SSRC(48000) AmplifydB(5.242) AutoYV12() Yadif(order=0)
Code:import("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\AudioFunctions.avs") import("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\VideoFunctions.avs") loadcplugin("C:\Program Files\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\plugins\yadif.dll") DirectShowSource("C:\Documents and Settings\John Coleman\Desktop\DV2MP4\tkd.avi", fps=29.970, convertfps=true) SSRC(48000) AmplifydB(5.242) AutoYV12() Yadif(order=0) Lanczos4Resize(640, 480)
720x480 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/xejnyiyxzdy/tkd_30fps_720x480_progressive.mp4
640x480 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/xnyhwyn7zgd/tkd_30fps_640x480_progressive.mp4
As you can see I called the 720x480 file tkd_30fps_720x480_progressive.mp4 and I called the 640x480 file tkd_30fps_640x480_progressive.mp4 but both are really 29.970fps so don't let my file names confuse you
Last but not least ... another "warning" ... "Yadif" may NOT be the best deinterlacer in this case. There are many options. Please explore that ...
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
P.S.
Note that the 640x480 file is smaller at 3.73MB compared to the 720x480 file which is 4.39MB ... other than the resolution both were encoded with the exact same settings. Personally I would go for the 640x480 method since you don't have to "fix" the aspect ratio afterwards (one less step) and the file size is smaller. The difference in image quality between 720 vs 640 is negligible (at least in my opinion).
*** THERE ARE A TOTAL OF 9 IMAGES IN THIS POST ***"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
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I forgot to mention ... here are the options for deinterlacing that XVID4PSP has built-in
It defaults to "TomsMoComp" but is that best? I sure don't know. In my example above I tried "Yadif" and I'm not sure I am entirely happy with it. I think it can be better.
My hope is that someone can suggest which of these deinterlacing options might be the "best" option.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
P.S.
There is 1 image in this post."The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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My hope is that someone can suggest which of these deinterlacing options might be the "best" option.
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic354397-30.html#1877202
The better ones available within XviD4PSP (like MCBob and the EDI variations) are pretty slow. -
Originally Posted by manono
Thanks as always for your input manono
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
P.S.
I still say that MCBob at 59.940fps looked pretty damn impressive but then again it isn't 29.970fps so ... blah"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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@ fulci
I just wanted to make mention that your..
2.) tkd_60fps.mp4 ---> http://www.mediafire.com/file/2wv4kwm2md1/tkd_60fps.mp4
..file is not playing on my win98 pc, nor on my xp home edition computer w/ SP2. Using VLC, the video starts off with 3 to 5 frames and then pauses at the same frame. So, I tried *cheating* by opening it with avisynth's DirectShowSource() function but it just would not open the darn thing.. kept issuing an error. Is there an updated DS for avisynth ?? I can only open much older videos with it. I don't know
I just thought I'd mention it because the OP (and other menbers) might-ev ran into the same problem but were too chicken to mention it
-vhelp 4878 -
Regarding deinterlacing..
Actually, I think yadif does a better job at the interlace. It does a good "blend" of fields to [s:c2ae5aef87]make[/s:c2ae5aef87] give those fields that progressive look.
I'm picky about deinterlace too, you know. But it takes time to get something decent out of the process. The trick there is to get it to a progressive state and still make it (the player) play it as if interlace, to give it that progressive-interlace or is it, interlace-progressive lookIOW, if you want to retain the fluidness (after the deinterlace application) you have to let in some hint of interlace. I know it sounds crazy, but when I did this in some of my own (experimental) videos, I was quite satisfied -- having the best of both worlds.
To add.. here's where I got the hint about all this .. my wheels are always spinning .. when you look at some of the program contents on cable, i.e., the Nick channel, there are some shows that are interlace, but they are not competely interlaced. They are probably either progressive and (poorly) made to look interlace or they are (by coencidense) badly interlaced, or some other botched job. I don't know. I only know that in some (interlaced) videos I can make them look good, and in some, not. It all depends on those factors I mentioned, and others I haven't.
On the other side of deinterlacing, the condition of the source video is also questionable. If there are problems with the video then this could result in poor results. In the OP's original video, there were too much hand motion that *robbed* yadif (and other deinterlace methods) of their credit. I'm afraid to say it, but when it comes to "home videos" deinterlace tools get the sht end of the stick. Had the video been shot on a tripod these discussions would prob go more positive, I think.
PS: there should really be a separate (respectful) "deinterlace" thread to talk about technique and things, and more.
-vhelp 4879 -
Originally Posted by vhelp
I suppose it is possible something went wrong when I uploaded it but the person with the XboX 360 did the same download you would have done from the same website. Maybe your download got corrupted somehow?
I'm in Linux right now and I just was able to open the file in Totem Movie Player and with AviDemux. No problems.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
P.S.
I couldn't get it to work with the Linux version of VLC media player. It just played back with an all black screen."The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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Ok fulci, good news., I'ya, yeah. I got it to work. I had to make a change in VLC and then it played fine. Sorry for causing the worry
VLC change:
** Menu: \Settings\Preference\Video\[x] Advanced\[ ] drop late frames
I had to [ ] uncheck drop late frames. That allowed playback to work smoothly. This worked smoothly from start to finish on my XP Home computer, however, on my win98, it would only play in slowmotion. But it worked in both cases
In any event, the tkd_60fps.mp4 demo played smoothly, good work.
-vhelp 4880 -
As a side comment, thanks again to all for your invaluable assistance. I tried XviD4PSP as per fulci's guidance, and everything came out great (and was much easier than my previous attempts using MeGUI).
Now my only debate is whether or not to encode everything at 59.94fps since my current machine is struggling a bit, but I also don't want to re-encode my home videos in the future either... sigh... -
Originally Posted by aybills
Originally Posted by aybills
However there are a couple of "work arounds".
1.) The 59.940fps MP4 will play back on a PS3 and XboX 360 so if you have one or intend to get one ... well there you go!
2.) You can encode to a M2TS file. This basically would have the exact same video properties but the audio ends up being AC-3 instead of AAC-LC. The file can be played back on a PS3 "as is" but you can also burn it to a regular DVD disc in such a way that it will work on any Blu-Ray player ... as long as that Blu-Ray player supports what is called AVCHD. My understanding is that most (not all) but most do support that.
So you can always get an XboX 360 or PS3 or any Blu-Ray player that supports AVCHD and you can watch the stuff NOW with that hardware and worry about upgrading the computer at some later point in time. Of course you will need an HDTV that supports at least 720p because 480i/480p can't benefit from the 59.940fps and I have no idea what it would look like as it would have to somehow be reduced to 29.970fps in which case no reason going 59.940fps
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to play your 60fps clip with no hiccups on my laptop (ThinkPad R61i using Intel Core 2 Duo @ 1.5GHz) so I'll set all my conversions for the higher frame rate. It's the difference between "acceptably good" to simply good.
Thanks again! -
What a happy ending
Good luck with your videos !!!
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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I just found this topic because I was struggling to convert DV to MP4 using virtualdub. Every encode I did was pixellated. I even tried the 'super' program and that was awfully pixellated too. With this XViD4PSP program I followed your guide FulciLives and I have a nice quality MP4 file that looks great and is about a fifth of the size of the original. Thanks!!!!
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