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Area88
Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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Most PAL VCR's output NTSC VHS in PAL 50 or PAL 60.
I need true NTSC 60 playback so I can convert my NTSC video collection to NTSC dvd.
I need someone to recommend me a model that does this.
A VHS to DVD combi would be good but as far as I'm aware won't allow me to bypass macrovision copyright protection. Unless there is a good model which is hackable.
Any help please, suggestions and recommendations needed. 
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DB83
Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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johns0
Puppet Master
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Location: canada
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Get a ntsc vhs recorder and capture to your computer in ntsc,most capture cards will let you capture in ntsc or pal.
_________________
Ben Johnson-I didnt take any stereos!
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Area88
Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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Capture cards are a good alternative, thanks, but too much hassle for me.
Hmm, well I found out most of my 80's anime videos don't have macrovision.
All i want is a PAL dvd vhs recorder combi that can recorder NTSC VHS and output in NTSC dvd.
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hech54
CONFUSED
Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Location: Yank in Europe
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You need to find a way to get a true NTSC signal out of a European VCR....NOT an easy task to say the least.
_________________
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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Panasonic dvd recorder/vcr's combos sold in the UK will convertt both pal and ntsc.
Check your vhs stuff is not out on DVD and rent it through amazon.co.uk for instance.
Your macrovison question, I would take it tape by tape, I "think" that if you take the output of one of these combos I suggest and link it via a macro remover back to the combo dvd recorder it works.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-DMR-EZ47V-DVD-Recorder-VCR-Combo- ... .m14.l1318
eg:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-DMR-ES30V-DVD-Recorder-VCR-Combo_ ... .m14.l1318
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/220239/index.html#anker_220239
is the manual link and check page 40 where it says for the ES30V you can change it between pal and ntsc and I am guessing if you just use it as a vcr it will ouput true ntsc, as it records true ntsc on the dvd part.
Lot cheaper than, often dodgy, multi system vcr's, which I have never found very good, thats why I buy pal vcr's from the UK, and so far they all work on 110 voltage, but I would not say USA vcr's would work on 220, probably emit a nice burning smell.
Last edited by victoriabears on Aug 10, 2008 12:20, edited 1 time in total
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Area88
Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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| victoriabears wrote: |
| is the manual link and check page 40 where it says for the ES30V you can change it between pal and ntsc and I am guessing if you just use it as a vcr it will ouput true ntsc, as it records true ntsc on the dvd part. |
Thanks, but this is the only bit I'm worried about. Does the VCR output in true NTSC? I will try and contact some of the Ebay Sellers.
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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Oh yes it will transfer ntsc vhs to ntsc dvd, it is your macrovision issue that creates a question, don;t ask the seller look at the panasonic manuals link.
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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I'd buy a NTSC VCR if you want one.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com -- Help with VHS to DVD, DVD recorders, other video/photo issues.
NoMoreCoasters.com -- How to avoid bad burns, how to find the best blank DVDs.
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KBeee
Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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| johns0 wrote: |
| Get a ntsc vhs recorder and capture to your computer in ntsc,most capture cards will let you capture in ntsc or pal. |
The OP is in the UK, which brings in the question of 230V/50Hz Vs 110V/60Hz for a true NTSC VCR, which introduces more problems than it fixes
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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sorry , did not glean, have you got a dvd recorder that will record in true ntsc ?, by the way, some pioneer dvd recorder will record pal 60.
_________________
PAL/NTSC problem solver.
UK Equipment owner.
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Area88
Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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I don't have a dvd recorder which is why the Panasonic DMR-EZ47V looks particularly tempting.
Do you know if the burned dvds are compatible with PC drives?
I read on a videohelp review that the Panasonic DMR-ES30V cannot, weird, huh?
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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Sorry...........not clear..................the es30V cannot what exactly? The reviews on here for the es30 are all, bar one, from the USA. Sounds like they did not finalise the discs.
Manual link for the es30:-
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/220239/index.html#anker_220239
Here is the spec page of the es30;-
Suggests to me is does what my es45 does, ie:,,ntsc and pal,
Specifications
Norsk: Bølgelengde: 662 nm (DVD), 795 nm (CD)
Laserstyrke: Ingen farlig stråling sendes ut
78
Power supply: AC 220V-240 V 50 Hz
Power consumption: 36 W (approx.3 W in Power Save)
Dimensions: ca. 430 mm (W) x 89 mm (H) x 352 mm (D)
Weight: ca. 5.6 kg
Operating temperature: 5°C - 40°C
Operating humidity: 35% - 80% RH (no condensation)
Recording format VHS video cassette system standard with FM audio
(PAL, NTSC)
NTSC recording from an external source or from
DVD, not from TV tuner.Recording format DVD-RAM: DVD-Video recording format DVD-R:DVD-Video format
DVD-RW: DVD-Video Format
Video: MPEG2 (Hybrid-VBR) Audio: Dolby Digital 2 channels
DVD VHS
LASER specification LASER product of class 1, Wavelength:662 nm for DVD, 795 nm for CD Video / audio heads 4 rotating video heads, 2 Hi-Fi heads
1 fixed head for normal audio
Recording discs DVD-RAM: Ver.2.0, Ver.2.1 /3x Rev.1.0, Ver.2.2 /5x Rev.2.0
Playable discs DVD-R: Gen.Ver.2.0, Ver.2.0 /4x Rev.1.0, Ver.2.x /8x Rev.3.0
DVD-RW: Ver.1.1, Ver.1.1 /2x Rev.1.0, Ver.1.2 /4x Rev.2.0
DVD+R: Ver.1.0, Ver.1.1, Ver.1.2
Playback only
discs
PAL/MESECAM : SP: 23.39 mm/s 240 min.
LP: 11.7 mm/s 480 min.
EP: 7.8 mm/s 720 min.
NTSC: SP: 33.35 mm/s 168 min.
EP: 11.12 mm/s 505 min.
(with E-240 cassettes)
Other Regional code: 2 Forward/rewind: approx. 60 sec., Fast rewind: approx. 43 sec. (with E-180 cass.)
Video interface
TV system PAL: 625/50 / SECAM (input only) NTSC: 525/60
Input The input impedance of each input socket is 75 Ohm.
AV1 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s
AV2 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s, Y: 1 Vs-s C: 0.3 Vs-s(PAL-Burst), RGB: 0.7Vs-s (625/50)
AV3 Socket Video: 1 Vs-s
S Video Y: 1 Vs-s, C:0,3 Vs-s(PAL-Burst)
625/50:PAL/SECAM 525/60:NTSC
The input impedance of each input socket is 75 Ohm.
Output The output impedance of each output socket is 75 Ohm.
AV1 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s; RGB: 0.7Vs-s (625/50)
AV2 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s
DVD Socket Video: 1 Vs-s
S Video Y: 1 Vs-s, C: 0.3 Vs-s (PAL-Burst)
Component Video Y: 1 Vs-s, PB: 0.7 Vs-s, PR: 0.7 Vs-s
(Socket) (Component output: Progressive Interlace)
The output impedance of each output socket is 75 Ohm.
Video interface
TV system
Input
Output
Recording mode
Recording time
AV1 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s
AV2 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s, Y: 1 Vs-s C:0.3 Vs-s(PAL-Burst)
AV3 Socket Video: 1 Vs-s
S Video Y: 1 Vs-s, C:0.3 Vs-s(PAL-Burst)
AV1 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s
AV2 SCART Video: 1 Vs-s
DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, DVD+RW, Video-CD, CD-Audio (CD-DA),
CD-R/RW (MP3, JPEG, CD-DA, Video-CD-formatted discs)
Yes finalised dvd's from a dvd recorder can be read and edited on a pc drive.
The ES47 is more modern than the es30, and upward models have things like upconverting/hdmi etc if that interest you.
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ntscuser
Mimzy
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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UK-spec Panasonics don't system convert. Their VHS/S-VHS recorders output NTSC tapes as 60Hz 4.43Mhz PAL colour. Their DVD recorders can record NTSC buy from true NTSC 3.58Mhz 60Hz sources only. I own both.
I don't know of any current UK-spec VHS recorder which has true NTSC playback but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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ntscuser does not refer to the combo's being mentioned, is he saying he doubts the vcr part outputs true ntsc ?
_________________
PAL/NTSC problem solver.
UK Equipment owner.
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ntscuser
Mimzy
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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| victoriabears wrote: |
| ntscuser does not refer to the combo's being mentioned, is he saying he doubts the vcr part outputs true ntsc ? |
Yes, unless somehere has one and knows different? Also a Panasonic combo can't make a DVD from a copy-protected tape which is what the original poster asked. He would need a separate DVD recorder plus video-stabilizer device. A friend here uses a Samsung VCR with true NTSC output plus video stabilizer plus standalone DVD recorder operating in NTSC mode.
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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ok ok, this is driving me nuts.........so I got my uk es45 out and played a ntsc tape to my ntsc only TV and yes it plays fine, so it must play pure ntsc (?), I am just gonna create a short dvd to make sure it creates a pure ntsc DVD and post the g spot results. To solve the copy protection aspect, I do not think it will allow me to play a tape and take the output to the dvd recorder side though, ie:, it will only do one function at a time. play/record/auto dub.
He would need a es10 panny dvd recorder, with a macro remove in between, they go for about 30 pounds these days, just for his copy protected tapes, I'd perhaps see if they do indeed cause a problem first.
Or you could try that 99 pounds pal60 to pal copnverter mentioned and record in pal, my esperience is that the picture quality from these converters can be pretty horrible.
Oh the joys of an international community.
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ntscuser
Mimzy
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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| victoriabears wrote: |
| ok ok, this is driving me nuts.........so I got my uk es45 out and played a ntsc tape to my ntsc only TV and yes it plays fine, so it must play pure ntsc (?), |
Yes, I'm pleased to hear that.
| victoriabears wrote: |
| I am just gonna create a short dvd to make sure it creates a pure ntsc DVD and post the g spot results. To solve the copy protection aspect, I do not think it will allow me to play a tape and take the output to the dvd recorder side though, ie:, it will only do one function at a time. play/record/auto dub. |
I am guessing it will dub an NTSC tape to DVD provided it does not have copy protection.
| victoriabears wrote: |
| He would need a es10 panny dvd recorder, with a macro remove in between, they go for about 30 pounds these days, just for his copy protected tapes, I'd perhaps see if they do indeed cause a problem first. |
He will also need a VHS player of some sort with true NTSC output. I suspect the original poster is not prepared to purchase an elaborate combi-unit just to obtain that?
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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well it might be the best/cheapest option, there is an es30 on ebay for 39 pounds, cheaper than getting a multi player or an ntsc only vcr which will work on 110 volt. Bear in mind he does not have a ntsc dvd recorder, so the combi may do most of what he needs. Otherwise he could use this, if he can get the German ebayer to ship to the UK,
http://cgi.ebay.de/AIWA-HV-MX1-WORLDWIDE-MULTI-FORMAT-PAL-NTSC-VC ... 638Q2em122
Begs a question are all the original posters vhs tapes commercial ones? & I repeat my thought about are they available on dvd , anywhere in the world.
Or he can send the problem tapes to me and I'll do them !
A free service I always offer to forum users for problem tapes.
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ntscuser
Mimzy
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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| victoriabears wrote: |
| well it might be the best/cheapest option. |
Yes, probably. I used to maintain a list of VHS machines which could record or playback various NSTC modes (hence the name) but it became increasingly obsolete once DVD became establshed here. I doubt if any of them are still available even second-hand.
There was a UK Panasonic VCR at one time which had a 4.43/3.58 selector switch on it but purchasers would leave the switch in the wrong position, claim the VCR wasn't working correctly, then ask for a repair under warranty so the distributors removed the switch from later versions.
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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strange experiment I just did, using a panny uk vcr model 930, played an ntsc vhs, which means it is outputting pal 60 ?
Into a uk philips dvd recorder model 3570H, and it recorded and plays fine on a uk dvd player, but not on a ntsc dvd player (coz its pal 60 ?right?).
When using G spot on the file it says 352 x 480 and 29.97 fps.
Its is looking like the philips records pal 60?
_________________
PAL/NTSC problem solver.
UK Equipment owner.
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ntscuser
Mimzy
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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| victoriabears wrote: |
| strange experiment I just did, using a panny uk vcr model 930, played an ntsc vhs, which means it is outputting pal 60 ? |
Correct.
| victoriabears wrote: |
| Into a uk philips dvd recorder model 3570H, and it recorded and plays fine on a uk dvd player, but not on a ntsc dvd player (coz its pal 60 ?right?). |
There may be another reason for that.
| victoriabears wrote: |
| When using G spot on the file it says 352 x 480 and 29.97 fps. |
I think the reason it wouldn't play on a particular machine was to do with the resolution rather than with the frame rate.
| victoriabears wrote: |
| Its is looking like the philips records pal 60? |
It does indeed look as if the Philips is able to record from a PAL60 source.
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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thanks, so if our original poster wants to get a philips (Modern batch) dvd recorder he is home and dry, also the recording quality from the Philips is better than the panny.
I did this coz I was trying to find a pioneer (Which I have never owned) dvd recorder which recorded pal 60 and a reference I came across suggested Phlips machines do it as well.Hurrah.
FYI, I bought my philips from this guy, cam from uk to Canada DHL, condition was like I had just walked out the store with it:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PHILIPS-DVDR3570H-DVD-160GB-HDD-RECORDER-WI ... .m14.l1318
_________________
PAL/NTSC problem solver.
UK Equipment owner.
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Area88
Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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Thanks for everyones help. Most of my videos are Japanese anime made before 1992. They should not have any macrovision protection on them.
Therefore I will probaly buy a Panasonic es30 if I can get one cheap enough.
I won't buy a Phillips since I want all my recordings to remain in NTSC, not PAL 60.
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DB83
Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Area88 wrote: |
Thanks for everyones help. Most of my videos are Japanese anime made before 1992. They should not have any macrovision protection on them.
Therefore I will probaly buy a Panasonic es30 if I can get one cheap enough.
I won't buy a Phillips since I want all my recordings to remain in NTSC, not PAL 60. |
If the Phillips can record a PAL60 signal, the outputed DVD will NOT be PAL60 as there is no such dvd standard. The disk will either the PAL or NTSC.
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2Bdecided
Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| KBeee wrote: |
| The OP is in the UK, which brings in the question of 230V/50Hz Vs 110V/60Hz for a true NTSC VCR, which introduces more problems than it fixes |
It's easy enough to convert 240V/50Hz to 110V/50Hz - Maplins or similar will sell you a transformer, and I've never seen a VCR that cared about the main frequency (I've used over 50 different US VCRs in the UK this way, and a few UK VCRs in the USA too).
"PAL", "NTSC", and "SECAM" are colour encoding standards - other uses of the words are very common, but strictly incorrect.
DVDs are either 576-line 25fps or 480-line ~30fps. There is no "PAL" or "NTSC" on DVD, though people commonly use the word "PAL" for 576i50 and "NTSC" for 480i29.97. The colour encoding on DVD is YPrPb; no PAL, NTSC or SECAM. PAL60 is 480i29.97, i.e, what people normally call "NTSC" once recorded onto a DVD!
Cheers,
David.
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DB83
Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| 2Bdecided wrote: |
| KBeee wrote: |
| The OP is in the UK, which brings in the question of 230V/50Hz Vs 110V/60Hz for a true NTSC VCR, which introduces more problems than it fixes |
It's easy enough to convert 240V/50Hz to 110V/50Hz - Maplins or similar will sell you a transformer, and I've never seen a VCR that cared about the main frequency (I've used over 50 different US VCRs in the UK this way, and a few UK VCRs in the USA too).
"PAL", "NTSC", and "SECAM" are colour encoding standards - other uses of the words are very common, but strictly incorrect.
DVDs are either 576-line 25fps or 480-line ~30fps. There is no "PAL" or "NTSC" on DVD, though people commonly use the word "PAL" for 576i50 and "NTSC" for 480i29.97. The colour encoding on DVD is YPrPb; no PAL, NTSC or SECAM. PAL60 is 480i29.97, i.e, what people normally call "NTSC" once recorded onto a DVD!
Cheers,
David. |
Only slightly pedantic
Even the FAQ on this site refers to dvds as either 'PAL' or 'NTSC'
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victoriabears
Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Canada
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If the dvd I created was not Pal 60, it must have been PAL as it would not play on my NTSC only dvd player, it reported 352x480 29.97 fps on G spot.
If you try a 110 item into 220/240 it will burn out the power supply if it is not dual voltage.
Stuff made for the North American Market is never intended for Europe.
So if you try it be warned.
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2Bdecided
Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| victoriabears wrote: |
| If the dvd I created was not Pal 60, it must have been PAL as it would not play on my NTSC only dvd player, it reported 352x480 29.97 fps on G spot. |
29.97fps is an NTSC frame rate, not a PAL one.
480-lines is an NTSC frame height, not a PAL one.
352 pixels across is half D1 (see link below), and fully DVD compliant, but maybe this is the problem?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video
Cheers,
David.
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ntscuser
Mimzy
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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| victoriabears wrote: |
| If the dvd I created was not Pal 60, it must have been PAL as it would not play on my NTSC only dvd player, it reported 352x480 29.97 fps on G spot. |
352 x 480 is non-standard for a DVD. Try recording in SP or even HQ mode and see if that will play on your NTSC-only player?
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