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YouTube offering higher quality video / Stage6 ends services!
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bayme
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Location: EU
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:12 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
(As a result of this thread: http://forum.videohelp.com/topic336882-390.html#1814412 we're moving the Subject here.)

It seems YouTube is currently offering Higher Quality (up to 850 kbit/s A+V) videos to certain locations only, and testing out several different quality formats.

You can see if your video has different versions offered by YouTube, by adding "&fmt=18" or "&fmt=6" to the end of the URL, like in these examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0_aFU4Yjj8
yields low quality 320x240
while (adding &fmt=18 at the end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0_aFU4Yjj8&fmt=18
gives you 480x360 high-bandwidth material, and higher quality audio!

See http://forum.videohelp.com/topic346256-120.html#1820485 for a way to embed the fmt=18 mp4 version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKw7mu6lzso
yields low quality 320x240, while
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKw7mu6lzso&fmt=6
gives you high-res high-bandwidth material.

This makes uploading in FLV format a questionable activity, since obviously YT will convert your video in more than 1 version so they can decide which one to offer to the viewer.
update: Google/YouTube turned format 18 into stereo as of March 9th and is re-encoding all videos to the new format still as I write

Last edited by bayme on Jun 28, 2008 15:20, edited 13 times in total
Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:30 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
If a video hasn't been converted yet, it will keep loading 'forever', doesn't it? Also, I think only .wmv is being converted right now. I got video's in .avi (mostly xvid), .wmv and .mp4 (h.264). Only 1 .wmv is converted thus far. No h.264 or DivX/Xvid movie has been converted yet.

bayme
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Location: EU
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:36 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Denizzje wrote:
If a video hasn't been converted yet, it will keep loading 'forever', doesn't it? Also, I think only .wmv is being converted right now. I got video's in .avi (mostly xvid), .wmv and .mp4 (h.264). Only 1 .wmv is converted thus far. No h.264 or DivX/Xvid movie has been converted yet.

I don't think so, SpongeFreak52's ups were XviD..
I have also yet to see if the High-Quality gives you stereo audio. Do you have a stereo example upload, anyone?

Another good example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFiOm9ifMG0&fmt=6 (high, still no stereo audio though)

Last edited by bayme on Feb 23, 2008 16:46, edited 1 time in total
Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:37 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVAURHf-2MQ&fmt=6

I used stereo music for this movie. But I don't think it is stereo, though the quality has really improved. This is the only one of my 46 movies which has been converted thus far. I am wondering if some of my longer movies (I got one of almost 2 hours) will also be switched eventually.

SpongeFreak52
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Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:40 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Actually, only half of mine are in XviD, and none of those have been converted. Only 1-65, which were WMVs, have been converted.

So it seems that that it is the only format being converted at the moment. No XviDs have been seen in HQ yet.

dtfinch
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Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:42 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
They made an HQ version of one of my h.264 mp4's.

bayme
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Location: EU
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:45 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Shay offers only stereo videos, for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwFjIrUE5fA wink.gif
but he uploads FLV (uses Any Video Converter, actually) and bypasses the YT conversion.

It's interesting to see what they will do regarding all the uploaded FLV's.. upscale them? LOL wink.gif

Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 14:45 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
dtfinch wrote:
They made an HQ version of one of my h.264 mp4's.


May I have the link? Because almost half of my videos are in h.264 too and I really want those switched in HQ too!

dtfinch
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Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 15:19 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Denizzje wrote:
May I have the link? Because almost half of my videos are in h.264 too and I really want those switched in HQ too!

I suppose I could unprivate it (may take a while for the change to propagate), though it won't prove anything:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ipxn-hKvbNE&fmt=6 (slightly NSFW)

The 480x360 version didn't appear until the next day.

Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 15:28 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
That looks and sounds much better than the other version of the same movie on youtube! And it sounds like stereo too. Strange, but good smile.gif.
_________________
Touchy sensitive dude biggrin.gif.

bayme
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Location: EU
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 15:39 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Denizzje wrote:
That looks and sounds much better than the other version of the same movie on youtube! And it sounds like stereo too. Strange, but good smile.gif.

No it's still mono (44.1 kc, 96 kbit/s cbr mp3). I hope that's not YouTube's new choice of what they offer, because then I will still be uploading my own FLV's with stereo..

Also sad that they're using Xing's encoder for the mp3 audio. Why would you, when LAME is out there too? Lame Variable Bitrate does a much better job with low bitrates. For example, if you use mencoder, this:
Code:
-oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=2:q=8:aq=0:mode=1:padding=2:lowpassfreq=16300 -channels 2 -srate 44100
is simply amazing for stereo audio, and often gives you a lower average than 96 kbit/s (what they use now).

Last edited by bayme on Feb 17, 2008 15:48, edited 1 time in total
Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 15:42 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I think I am going to mail them about why they choose 96kb/s mono instead of atleast 128kb/s stereo. Not that it will give any results probably, but never shot is always missed. What is the total bitrate, was it around 800kb/s or so?
_________________
Touchy sensitive dude biggrin.gif.

dtfinch
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Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 16:34 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I found the string "LAME3.97 (beta)" in the header.

Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 16:35 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
dtfinch wrote:
I found the string "LAME3.97 (beta)" in the header.


That's why it probably still sounds reasonable.

reez
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 16:38 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
so adding "&fmt=6" FORCES OUT the HQ version..but not for all countries am i right?

SpongeFreak52
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Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 16:43 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
So there's no difference if you get rid of/add the country prefix in the URL?

Oh, by the way, does anybody think they can help me here? I've uploaded a 480 x 360 FLV (which kept its resolution), but Any Video Converter keeps lying to me about the bitrates I select. I had to go all the way down to 200 KB/s just so I could get it down to 342 KB/s in reality. Is this because of the audio, or is this just the wrong program to use to adjust the bitrate?

Here's the vid:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=x3kd9LbS9LM

Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 16:51 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote


I made a comparison to see the difference between the old 'normal' version and the fmt version.

SpongeFreak52
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Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 16:58 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Well, there is a bit of an improvement, but not much. Hopefully we can upload better than that when HQ uploads are enabled.

Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 17:05 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Well you see it is much sharper... and sound quality has improved too. However, the source is quite bad (German colour material from 1944) so it could be better. Now lets hope youtube improves the mp3 bitrate to 128vbr or something.

SpongeFreak52
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Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 17:16 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Indeed, I wouldn't mind if they upped their audio limits a bit.

Back on my question, does anybody know any good converters which you can adjust bitrate besides Any Video Converter?

Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: Netherlands
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 17:38 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Well, I use Riva FLV encoder for youtube flvs, and Avidemux for larger movies I have on youtube to get them in XviD. SUPER can handle really much formats, you should try that one!
_________________
Touchy sensitive dude biggrin.gif.

bayme
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Location: EU
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 17:55 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
SpongeFreak52 wrote:
Back on my question, does anybody know any good converters which you can adjust bitrate besides Any Video Converter?

You can just as easily do what AVC does yourself, improve it for your own niche-preferences.
I use this line in a .bat file (note that it must all be on one line):
Quote:
See http://forum.videohelp.com/topic345987.html
In this change your prefs and of course the source video etc.
You can even use the mencoder.exe that came with AVC for this, or get a later win32 compile of mencoder.

reez wrote:
so adding "&fmt=6" FORCES OUT the HQ version..but not for all countries am i right?
No, it forces the HQ version everywhere (if there IS one available). The difference is, YouTube only serves it by default to specific IP-ranges (is my deduction of the issues). It does not seem related to a bandwidth check of some sort, since the HQ versions stream in just fine here..

dtfinch wrote:
I found the string "LAME3.97 (beta)" in the header.
Well, it's in there, but down from the header. An encoder guess of the mp3 audio of your NSFW vid is not coming up with lame. Either way, they should go with vbr. That way, if people upload mono audio, it can go down to ~64 kbit/s easily.

Last edited by bayme on Feb 23, 2008 16:49, edited 2 times in total
bayme
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Location: EU
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 18:27 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Denizzje wrote:
If a video hasn't been converted yet, it will keep loading 'forever', doesn't it?
LOL, they're reading here alright biggrin.gif Welcome YouTube/Google techs! They've just changed that into bypassing to the old quality if the HQ is not available. Good going YouTube. We love you! wink.gif

duro
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 18:48 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
This video is a good example of the upgrade. This is not my channel btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUuSFQjGaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUuSFQjGaA&fmt=6

The fast motion in the original made some parts unwatchable but add &fmt=6 and the extra bit rate and different screen size has made it sharp and watchable, this is great for people who have uploaded good wmv's that have been ruined by youtube's low bit rate. Does the higher bit rate address for the video work automatically for some areas then? Also, is this being introduced as standard because I'll have to go back to wmv's. Hopefully its possible to have top sound quality like a bypassed flv.

wonderpierrot
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 18:49 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
bayme wrote:
Denizzje wrote:
If a video hasn't been converted yet, it will keep loading 'forever', doesn't it?
LOL, they're reading here alright biggrin.gif Welcome YouTube/Google techs! They've just changed that into bypassing to the old quality if the HQ is not available. Good going YouTube. We love you! wink.gif


Still gives an eternal black screen for vids that doesn't have HQ to me. :/

Just wanted to let you guys know that DivX AVI 640 x 480 gets converted as well, up until the 5th HQ video for me at least. WMVs on the other hand I never had any luck with, so I doubt the HQ vids are exclusive to WMVs only. At the moment YT stopped re-encoding my new vids, regardless of the video format and resolution (still pondering why...).

Last edited by wonderpierrot on Feb 17, 2008 18:50, edited 2 times in total
Denizzje
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
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Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 18:49 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
bayme wrote:
Denizzje wrote:
If a video hasn't been converted yet, it will keep loading 'forever', doesn't it?
LOL, they're reading here alright biggrin.gif Welcome YouTube/Google techs! They've just changed that into bypassing to the old quality if the HQ is not available. Good going YouTube. We love you! wink.gif


Well my videos still keep loading untill the cows come home. Ah well, I hope they do read here. And thus improve the sound to stereo with a variable bitrate, with around 128kb/s or more and I will be really happy smile.gif. I would enjoy Youtube much more when a nice stereo sound comes out of my speakers smile.gif.

Quote:

Still gives an eternal black screen for vids that doesn't have HQ to me. hmm.gif

Just wanted to let you guys know that DivX AVI 640 x 480 gets converted as well, up until the 5th HQ video for me at least. WMVs on the other hand I never had any luck with, so I doubt the HQ vids are exclusive to WMVs only. At the moment YT stopped re-encoding my new vids, regardless of the video format and resolution (still pondering why...).


At the moment, 4 of my 46 videos are converted, all of them WMVs. My XviD and H.264 videos are still untouched. And I hope they will start switching again soon smile.gif.

bayme
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Location: EU
Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 19:40 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
wonderpierrot wrote:
Still gives an eternal black screen for vids that doesn't have HQ to me. :/

Weird, they no longer pass them through to the old one, and now again remain at the loading circle for me too..
But honestly, they've updated some config the last 24 hours. May depend on clearing your browser-cache.

wonderpierrot wrote:
Just wanted to let you guys know that DivX AVI 640 x 480 gets converted as well, up until the 5th HQ video for me at least. WMVs on the other hand I never had any luck with, so I doubt the HQ vids are exclusive to WMVs only. At the moment YT stopped re-encoding my new vids, regardless of the video format and resolution (still pondering why...).
Well, they do have 140 million videos to convert. There might be some pattern in how they go about doing this.

Last edited by bayme on Feb 18, 2008 09:29, edited 1 time in total
wonderpierrot
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Post Posted: Feb 17, 2008 20:15 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
bayme wrote:

wonderpierrot wrote:
Just wanted to let you guys know that DivX AVI 640 x 480 gets converted as well, up until the 5th HQ video for me at least. WMVs on the other hand I never had any luck with, so I doubt the HQ vids are exclusive to WMVs only. At the moment YT stopped re-encoding my new vids, regardless of the video format and resolution (still pondering why...).
Well, they do have 140 million videos to convert. There might be some pattern in how they go about doing this.


That's likely, I just find it strange how they used to convert my videos almost instantly on every video up until the 6th one.

I'll just await and see how things progress then, hopefully they'll be converting my videos eventually and I'm not eternally stuck with crappy low quality videos.

TheMaestro1
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Location: United States
Post Posted: Feb 18, 2008 00:31 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I uploaded a wmv tonight and it was converted to high quality in a couple hours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGFx9WtYWaY&fmt=6

stsin
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Post Posted: Feb 18, 2008 01:28 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
None of mine got converted, 640x480 xvids or flvs. While I know someone whom got all his videos converted.

I also get the black loading screen when no HQ version exists.

But I seriously doubt they'll convert to stereo. Simply for the copyright problems. Sure, there are a lot being broken now, but they are in mono. If they convert to HQ stereo, YT will be used as a music trading ground. Which will gather attention of the music industry, forcing a lot of headaches with both users and YT, and having to constantly suspend accounts.

I also bet when they get this finalized, they will add a force HQ option in the user settings.

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