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rkr1958
Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL, USA
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| pcworld wrote: |
Is Microsoft trying to thwart DVD-ripping on PCs using Windows Vista with the new beta of Vista Service Pack 1?
As I tested the public beta release of Vista SP1, I noticed the update crippled a popular DVD cracking program called DVD43.
DVD43 is a free utility that disables a DVD's Content Scramble System (CSS) copy protection technology. Once a DVD's copy protection is disabled, you can copy its content using one of several third-party programs. You may be using DVD43 and not realize it, because it often is the engine of other ripping programs.
When I updated my Windows Vista operating system with the beta of Vista SP1, DVD43 wouldn't load. Instead, I saw an error message about a missing driver--even after I uninstalled and then reinstalled DVD43. A colleague of mine had a similar experience on a PC that also had been updated with the latest beta release of Vista SP1.
Stripping DVD copy protection (CSS) from a DVD is illegal but many people do it.
I've made formal requests for comment from Microsoft and the company behind DVD43. So far, I've heard nothing back. I'll let you know what either say, if and when they reply.
Intentional?
It's hard to say whether Microsoft is intentionally disabling DVD43. Certainly the software giant doesn't mention anything about DVD copying in its documentation for the beta of Vista SP1. But given Microsoft's interest in making friendly with Hollywood movie studios, it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft intentionally disabled a popular and free tool that aids in ripping DVDs.
DVD43--and programs like it--have long been a thorn in the side for Hollywood, as DVD-ripping is one of the first steps in cracking and distributing copyright-protected movies online.
Despite the Motion Picture Association of America's efforts to crack down on DVD-ripping and despite U.S. copyright laws that make it illegal, sales of software that bypass DVD copy protection continue online and at retail stores.
Many of these DVD programs have been, and still are, sold by major retailers. However, when purchased, some of the programs can't copy DVDs equipped with copy protection. You must use an Internet search engine to find and download a program, such as DVD43, that empowers your DVD copy program to duplicate the contents of any CSS-protected DVD.
It's my experience in reporting past stories on DVD-ripping that many DVD-ripping programs recommend DVD43 to their customers. DVD43.com, a Web site that lists download sites for DVD43 as well as the DVD-ripping packages it works with, is owned by a company based in Beijing, China, according to Internet domain registration records.
In further tests, I did find that at least one other popular DVD utility, AnyDVD, which promises to "unprotect encrypted movie DVDs," did work with the beta of Vista SP1 installed--as its product description asserts. However, this is not free software: It will cost you 49 Euros, or about $72.
At least for now, it appears that casual DVD rippers will be stymied if they choose to update their Vista PCs with the Vista SP1 beta--and that those who want SP1 and copies of their Hollywood DVDs will have to pay up to keep ripping.
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JohnnyMalaria
Member
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: United States
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Doesn't sound like it.
This is a rather long article that doesn't really say much beyond:
I installed Vista SP1 beta.
My freeware DVD43 wouldn't load properly because of a missing driver.
Therefore, MS are crippling DVD ripping.
Though my non-freeware AnyDVD worked just fine.
Suggests to me that the freeware DVD43 makes incorrect assumptions about the availability of system files. When an app fails to load at startup it is usually because it is relying on a system dll such as the Visual C Run Time (msvcrt) and it isn't there. That's poor programming practice on the part of the software vendor, not MS.
Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist.
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rkr1958
Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL, USA
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| JohnnyMalaria wrote: |
Doesn't sound like it.
....
Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist. |
Let's hope so and that this is not the start of something more sinister on the part of Microsoft.
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oldandinthe way
Dissenter
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: With the other crabapples
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Thank you JohnnyMalaria
Programs which rely on undocumented features of the O/S will eventually fail. Whether someone deliberately caused the failure is irrelevant.
And by the way, users report mixed results with this program on XP - see the tools section.
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pepegot1
Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Location: South Florida
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More often then not-you get what you pay for.
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SCDVD
Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Location: United States
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| JohnnyMalaria wrote: |
Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist. |
That may well be the case. But from a broader perspective, it's important to present a vigilant message to Microsoft that "we are watching you". They need to know that whenever they attempt to pull something, we are going to shine the bright light of day on it. Microsoft has been pushed back before when they have attempted to slip things into their OS's. To put it another way, every blip on the radar isn't an incoming enemy aircraft but you don't turn the radar off just because the most recent "blip" turned out to be a false alarm. Microsoft is fully capable of horrific acts of "slime" and the bright floodlights of media and public scrutiny need to be shining in their eyes 24/7/365.
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bendixG15
Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Location: United States
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| SCDVD wrote: |
| ...................... it's important to present a vigilant message to Microsoft that "we are watching you". They need to know that whenever they attempt to pull something, we are going to shine the bright light of day on it. |
You got to be kidding, MS worries that "we are watching" ??? 
Oh, I'm sure MS monitors our feelings....... They have no feelings,
they are Microsoft. Its all about Power and Money.
Time to move on ..............
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Grain
ImgBurner
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Location: Canada
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| bendixG15 wrote: |
| SCDVD wrote: |
| ...................... it's important to present a vigilant message to Microsoft that "we are watching you". They need to know that whenever they attempt to pull something, we are going to shine the bright light of day on it. |
You got to be kidding, MS worries that "we are watching" ???
Oh, I'm sure MS monitors our feelings....... They have no feelings,
they are Microsoft. Its all about Power and Money.
Time to move on .............. |
I didn't see any mention at all of MS being worried in SCDVD's post? He made a good point that MS needs to know that they are being watched. Ultimately, they require feedback if they wish to improve a product, be that in a way we want or not. Now they may know that they have defeated DVD43 . Whether they care or not is irrelevant.
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guns1inger
So Very Tired
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Location: Miskatonic U
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I just love the paranoia. A program that's flakey at best doesn't run correctly on one installation of an OS that has proven to be difficult for poorly written software, and the loonies scream 'big brother'. To top it off, this is on a beta release, not even a final version of SP1.
Henny Penny - the sky isn't really falling.
_________________
The views expressed in this post are mine alone, unless plagiarised from others
Read my obscure DVD reviews here and my general blah here
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Conquest10
Thread Killer
Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
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I would think that MS doesn't really care about DVD ripping and would actually prefer that it kept going on so they can push their DRM out even more as a solution.
_________________
His name was MackemX
What kind of a man are you? The guy is unconscious in a coma and you don't have the guts to kiss his girlfriend?
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SCDVD
Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Location: United States
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guns1inger, I'm not talking "paranoia", "big brothers" or "falling skies". As I said, "from a broader perspective" it is important to watch Microsoft. They have pulled back in the past when there was an outcry from consumers with respect to unsavory product "features". A flaky piece of software that doesn't run properly isn't a concern to me nor does it have anything to do with the point that I am making. But an unbridled Microsoft is not in the consumers' interest. This has nothing to do with anyone being loony or your pal Henny Penny.
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halsboss
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Location: Australia
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| JohnnyMalaria wrote: |
Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist. |
Er ... a grain of salt, anyone ? Johnny historically has a pro-MS position... regardless, he's usually got good info.
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Dv8ted2
The One
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: OA
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| halsboss wrote: |
| JohnnyMalaria wrote: |
Most likely just more FUD or incompetence by the PCWorld columnist. |
Er ... a grain of salt, anyone ? Johnny historically has a pro-MS position... regardless, he's usually got good info. |
No, he has a neutral position. He is telling you things from a software engineering standpoint. That does not equal pro -Microsoft. He often gives very good information that pertains to the question.
_________________
"No evil shall escape my sight"
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guns1inger
So Very Tired
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Location: Miskatonic U
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Apparently anyone who doesn't jump on the anti-microsoft or anti-sony bandwagon must be pro, and therefore not to be trusted. It's a beta version of Vista SP1, DVD43 is a flaky piece of code even on a solid install of XP, and one incident of anything doesn't prove anything other than DVD43 didn't work for a reporter at PC World or his friend (not a big surprise).
Now if Linux and Apple were treated to the same scrutiny and hope for failure as Microsoft, it would be a different story.
_________________
The views expressed in this post are mine alone, unless plagiarised from others
Read my obscure DVD reviews here and my general blah here
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halsboss
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Location: Australia
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| Dv8ted2 wrote: |
| No, he has a neutral position. He is telling you things from a software engineering standpoint. That does not equal pro -Microsoft. |
So am I, bud. Johnny's info is as good or as bad as anyoe else's (refer skeptic site stuff below, they have a term for using personal background/status as credibility substitute in a line of argument).
| Dv8ted2 wrote: |
| He often gives very good information that pertains to the question. |
Yes, I said that too.
| guns1inger wrote: |
| Apparently anyone who doesn't jump on the anti-microsoft or anti-sony bandwagon must be pro, and therefore not to be trusted. |
Visited the Skeptics website the other day and there's a term they use for that type of non-logic... go look it up if you're interested, under top 20 something or others.
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SCDVD
Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Location: United States
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As for me, I like and use a number of Microsoft products including Vista. There is a lot to be acknowledged and admired about Microsoft. With that said, there is nothing conflictive when I say that they also need to be watched. Without some constraining influence, any company with as much size and influence as Microsoft has can sometimes try to reach in directions they ought not to. An important influence is a strong outcry when they attempt to move in a direction that is conflictive with the interests of their customers. There are some interesting reports in this web page about some things Microsoft pulled in the past http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/dirtytricks.shtml I can like and use some of Microsoft's products but I also realize they can't be allowed to be unconstrained.
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halsboss
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Location: Australia
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I agree, Mcirosoft have produced some great products ... however that doesn't necessarily make all of their directors and employees ethical nor consumer-interested at heart. Always follow the money trail, especially in the U$,
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JohnnyMalaria
Member
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: United States
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| SCDVD wrote: |
| As for me, I like and use a number of Microsoft products including Vista. There is a lot to be acknowledged and admired about Microsoft. With that said, there is nothing conflictive when I say that they also need to be watched. Without some constraining influence, any company with as much size and influence as Microsoft has can sometimes try to reach in directions they ought not to. An important influence is a strong outcry when they attempt to move in a direction that is conflictive with the interests of their customers. There are some interesting reports in this web page about some things Microsoft pulled in the past http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/dirtytricks.shtml I can like and use some of Microsoft's products but I also realize they can't be allowed to be unconstrained. |
I couldn't agree more. Sadly, it is relevant to any other where money and power can be abused (other business sectors, politics etc).
In this specific case, though, it really is a mountain out of a mole hill. Now, when SP1 is released and all of a sudden many ripping apps stop working and the vendors (not end users) determine that the cause is a deliberate change to the OS, then that's the time to be heard.
BTW, Bill sends his regards. 
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SmokieStover
Member
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Location: Central Illinois
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MS has a track record of new operating systems that will run its products, but not competing ones. WordPerfect has been ambushed by Bill three times since I have owned it, forcing me to run Wordperfect 6.0 or 8.0 on Win98SE, 8.0 with a hacked patch or 11.0 on Win2K, 12.0 on XP, which just by accident doesn't run on VISTA.
Rippers are my least concern. A quick tally at home of good and essential software and hardware, less than 2 years old that is not supported by VISTA, totals over $1500.00. Rebuying hardware every three years and being on a continuos annual software upgrade path because of Bill, is dam good for the vendors. But I have had enough of it.
Hanging with XP till their is a new OS that benefits me rather than Bill and his partners.
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JohnnyMalaria
Member
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: United States
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Re Wordperfect, I don't think MS are wholly at fault. Just a read of this makes in abundantly clear how fubar'd Wordperfect has been w.r.t. Windows compatibility:
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/oldwpwin.html
I mean, three different 32-bit versions of WP7. Wordperfect was a great DOS-based application and ruled the roost (except in scientific circles where T3 was a dominant player) but its transition to the Windows world has always been poorly executed.
The fact that WP12 doesn't work on Vista is simply that Vista is a major new version of Windows (6.0) and it is inevitable that some applications will not work especially those that make implicit and wrong assumptions about the OS. MS actually provide developers with tools to help figure all these incompatibilities. They are very clear in spelling out which functions of one version of Windows may not be supported in future ones or which ones will be deprecated.
You will no doubt know that Wordperfect Office X3 is works on Vista - as the logo on this page shows:
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1151523326841
Though, quite frankly, you can merely fart and get that logo. Certified for Vista is a different story.
So, why not put pressure on Corel to release updates for earlier versions? I doubt they will oblige - they want you to buy a newer version.
From Win95 to Vista, I've had to accept the inevitable and upgrade the software. Sometimes, I have refused and changed to a different vendor. This is usually when a new version of Windows comes out, a vendor releases a newer version of their software because the existing one won't work and they won't provide a free (or discounted) upgrade. Roxio will never, ever, ever see another penny of mine.
BTW, what <2yr old hardware and software do you have that isn't compatible? My hardware is less than 2 years old and have no problems at all, nor with my software.
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robertazimmerman
Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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What's a "Microsoft"? Never heard of 'em.
R
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Midzuki
RETIRED
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Location: Outside of VH.com
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RLT69
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
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| Quote: |
| I mean, three different 32-bit versions of WP7. |
Did you read the WordPerfect article? A and B were for Windows 95 and version C was for NT or NT enabled Windows. When Corel/WP made updates to existing software they often used letter increments. How many different version of Windows 95 did Microsoft have!
Microsoft NEVER played well with WordPerfect. Microsoft held out providing technical Specs for it's Word Doc format, thus preventing WordPerfect from providing a translator for such documents. That meant WordPerfect would not be able to read Word docs. Microsoft NEVER supported WordPerfect beyond WP 5/6. Microsoft's solution for reading WP documents in Word was to have you use WP to save the document in a format Word supported. Brilliant.
You blame the transition from DOS to Windows on WP. I'd blame it on Microsoft's inability to write a stable GUI based OS. It's not surprising DOS worked well, they did not write it. WP 7 was a fine GUI application, which was improved with WP 8.
I have no issue with the need to upgrade to a new application because of a new OS. That's understandable. I do have a gripe when a SERVICE PACK forces you to purchase a new application when the exisiting application is rated to work on that OS. XP SP2 force alot of people to purchase software that worked under XP SP1. That's the fault of the OS manufacturer not the software vender. If the OS changes the rules in the middle of the game you CANNOT BLAME the software vender.
So,
XP -> Vista: Application Developer's problem.
Vista -> Vista SP1: Microsoft's problem.
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JohnnyMalaria
Member
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: United States
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