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moviebuff2
Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Location: United States
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gadgetguy, here's a simplified scenario: I give my own homemade video (absolutely no copyright materials), the receivers are thankful at this time, later on I win a multi-million dollars lottery (wishing wishing wishing, hehehe), a few very receivers (who thank me) made their own copy and claim that I steal the video from them and sue me. The logo will hopefully stop them.
Human nature, you know, is something hard to predict.
Why bother giving them my videos? Well, at this moment I feel it's a right thing to do, but I have to think ahead and CMA.
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gadgetguy
Contestant
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Location: Michigan, USA
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Your confusing copy protection with copyrights. If that's your concern, then put the copyright notice in the credits and register your copyright before you release your video.
_________________
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-- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Buy My Book
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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All that is required is (C) 2007 - MovieBuff2 (or your real name or company name) and put it in the credits. You are indeed confusing copy protection with copyrights.
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gadgetguy
Contestant
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Location: Michigan, USA
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True, registration is not required, but if you end up in court (highly unlikely) that registration is going to carry a lot of weight in court.
_________________
"Shut up Wesley!"
-- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Buy My Book
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redwudz
Mod Neophyte
Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Location: AZ, USA
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Thanks, lordsmurf. That seems a decent alternative with a small embedded logo. I think most of us realize that copy protection is useless on a home made video if there are dedicated hackers out there. But it seems reminding the average users that you do own the rights to the video and redistributing it without permission is not a proper thing to do is a fair and reasonable alternative. I would not see a small logo/ownership display as a problem as a viewer myself. And it would be much preferred to some sort of copy protection that may only irritate potential viewers if it wasn't properly done. JMO. 
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Supreme2k
Greetings
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Right Here, Right Now
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So, what type of video is this? I'm just curious as to what extent it can be so generic that someone else can claim it. All of my video work has me in it, either narrating or starring. Of course, I also have the credits in there.
Beyond that, I have the original raw footage. I just have a hard time figuring out how exactly someone can sue you. You have a copy of your own film obviously made by yourself, and they have what rights to it? Even if Warner or someone like that put their own logo on it, they'd still have to show proof that you released the footage to them. What I'm trying to say is that there has to be something in there that is specifically you.
This has actually happened to me. Another parent at my daughter's school filmed the 10 minute portion of a holiday choir that included my daughter. I borrowed the raw footage, dressed it up and put it on a DVD. I allowed other parents to copy it, since the school had not filmed this pageant (as they usually do). Since it was a very select piece of footage (plus on tripod, no commentary, very static) only a few people did it. As soon as the guy finds out about it, he threatens to sue me, but never actually having an y particular "why". incidentally, I did ask him, "can I borrow your tape to make a copy?", to which he agreed.
_________________
Copyright infringement is not theft
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oldandinthe way
Dissenter
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: With the other crabapples
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Anyone can sue any one else for copyright violation. Whether one can prove ownership of the material in question or not. Whether it is registered or not. Whether they own the copyright or not.
There are no risks to bringing such a suit, other than your own legal expenses.
The costs of copyright litigation which goes to trial can be up to a quarter of a million dollars. Just the discovery phase of ligitation can be tens of thousands of dollars.
Think about this.
If some bastard chooses to sue you it will cost you plenty. And you can't cover your ass adequately because having proof and being right are no protection against legal costs.
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Supreme2k
Greetings
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Right Here, Right Now
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Actually, the little (litigant) guy isn't going to have the money to go through discovery, well before trial. I've been through a couple of "I'll sue you"(s), and most times it takes just a letter to the courts to have the issue squashed.
Yes, anyone can sue, but getting a lawyer to take the case or not getting laughed out of court is another matter. If you went to a firm and said that you invented Mickey Mouse, and your proof was a ripped and copied DVD of Fantasia, do you think they would take the case if you were on welfare?
_________________
Copyright infringement is not theft
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oldandinthe way
Dissenter
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: With the other crabapples
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There are lawyers who will take anything on retainer.
There are employees of law firms who bring suit without any basis - and do much of the work themselves to save money.
There are lawyers who take nuisance cases knowing they are likely to obtain a settlement which includes their fees.
There is no way a letter to the court gets anything done. No action is taken without a motion and a hearing.
Sometimes a letter to the plaintiff's lawyer gets some results, but that is usually because the plaintiff is discouraged by the potential fees and the poor prognosis the lawyer has provided.
And there are lawyers on salary or retainer who need to be kept busy and may pursue a case independant of a low probability of success.
Copyright disputes are to be avoided..
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Supreme2k
Greetings
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Right Here, Right Now
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| oldandinthe way wrote: |
There is no way a letter to the court gets anything done. No action is taken without a motion and a hearing.
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I've gotten out of trials by letter a few times, so the is a way. The cases have been thrown out without me setting one foot in court.
| oldandinthe way wrote: |
Sometimes a letter to the plaintiff's lawyer gets some results, but that is usually because the plaintiff is discouraged by the potential fees and the poor prognosis the lawyer has provided.
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That's another scenario that's happened. Also, the lawyer is discouraged by real proof, rather than imagined proof.
| oldandinthe way wrote: |
Copyright disputes are to be avoided.. |
But not to the point of hypothesizing that you'll win the lottery and a copyright dispute will ensue over the footage that you took of your child on a swing, or your dog chasing a squirrel (or whatever the very personal case may be).
_________________
Copyright infringement is not theft
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moviebuff2
Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Location: United States
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Hi Mats,
I downloaded that zip file. All I can see in that folder are several .bmp files, a .vdf file and an .html file. I tried to open these files without success. They all open with a lot of weird combinations of letters.
What am I supposed to do with these files.
To supreme2K: the video has only one person. Without a proper personal logo, anyone can claim the video as his/her own. I have my original VHS to prove, but why wait for troubles to come.
To all: yes, I thought about registering my video. It costs money. Doing myself would cost about $40.00. And I don't even know how. Perhaps I should call that 1-800 number that I have been seeing during my late late night TV watchings?  . With some help of a lawyer, it cost a minimum of $299.
I am, as Bob Barker would say, "el cheapo" . Therefore, I would try to go with the cheapest (i.e., free) way of putting my logo (a small and non-intrusive one) on my video.
Thanks for all of your inputs.
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guns1inger
Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Location: Miskatonic U
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And I will then use a delogo filter of simple crop to remove it. Logos are an annoyance that provide about as much protection and any other easily beaten scheme.
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videobread
Member
Joined: 09 May 2006
Location: United States
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Copyrights are simple and inexpensive. You download a form from the copyright office, fill it out and sent it back with a copy of your DVD and a check for $45.They stamp the form and send it back to you in few months no questions asked. You could write your name in the snow and copyright it. You can also put the copyright mark, a circle with the letter c inside the circle, your name and the year on your work and not register it with the copyright office. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS DO THAT. If you don't and you release your DVD it becomes public domain. The benefit of actually getting the copyright is that it is evidence of your ownership in court proceedings. More importantly, if you actually go to court and win the other party has to pay your legal fees if you actually got the copyright.
http://www.copyright.gov/register/performing.html
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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| videobread wrote: |
| If you don't and you release your DVD it becomes public domain. |
Myth. You're protected regardless.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com -- Help with VHS to DVD, DVD recorders, other video/photo issues.
NoMoreCoasters.com -- How to avoid bad burns, how to find the best blank DVDs.
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thecoalman
Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
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| videobread wrote: |
| You can also put the copyright mark, a circle with the letter c inside the circle, your name and the year on your work and not register it with the copyright office. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS DO THAT. If you don't and you release your DVD it becomes public domain. |
The second you create a unique work it becomes copyrighted by you, end of story. i.e you tape something it's your copyrighted property, all those tapes anyone has of their kids running around Christmas morning has just as much protection under the law as the latest $200 million Hollywood flop. There are exclusions such as if the performance you are taping is already copyrighted, its a work for hire etc. But as long as its unique as soon as its been recorded you own it.
Having the work registered doesn't provide you any more or less protection under the law, it does provide other benefits. You can't sue someone unless it's registered but that doesn't prevent you from registering after the infringement has taken place. Having a non registered work also limits what you can sue for.... My suggestion is don't waste your money with registering unless you feel it has enough importance to do so.
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Nepadigital Video Articles
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AlanHK
Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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| thecoalman wrote: |
| You can't sue someone unless it's registered |
Yes you can. But not for statutory damages, only for actual damages.
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thecoalman
Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
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| AlanHK wrote: |
| thecoalman wrote: |
| You can't sue someone unless it's registered |
Yes you can. But not for statutory damages, only for actual damages. |
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr
Copyright Registration
In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration. Among these advantages are the following:
* Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.
* Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin.
* If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.
* If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.
* Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, go to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/import. Click on “Intellectual Property Rights.”
Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired.
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Nepadigital Video Articles
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AlanHK
Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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Okay, I was wrong, for USA law; I'm not American.
But also note that since you can register and then file suit, after the infringment, in practice, if not technically in law, my condition applies.
Last edited by AlanHK on Dec 06, 2007 01:47, edited 1 time in total
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mats.hogberg
Modded Morloc
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Sweden (PAL)
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| moviebuff2 wrote: |
| I downloaded that zip file. All I can see in that folder are several .bmp files, a .vdf file and an .html file. |
If this question hasn't already been answered in the torrent of viability of the endeavor/logo removal and other topics discussed in this thread I have no intention to plow thru:
You put the vdf file in the plugins dir of your VirtualDub install. The bmp files are for a demo that's described in the HTML file, I think.
/Mats
_________________
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for life.
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thecoalman
Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
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| AlanHK wrote: |
Okay, I was wrong, for USA law; I'm not American. |
Yes, everything I have posted is in regards to US law.
| Quote: |
| But also note that since you can register and then file suit, after the infringment, in effect, if not in law, my condition applies. |
Which is what I originally posted. Are you a lawyer? Must be with that sentence.
_________________
Nepadigital Video Articles
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moviebuff2
Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Location: United States
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Thanks, Mats.
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Dv8ted2
The One
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: OA
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Here is the bottom line.....
If it can be played, it can be copied.
Inserting a watermark will not keep it from getting copied. If someone is going to copy it, they will copy it.
_________________
Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief.
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mats.hogberg
Modded Morloc
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Sweden (PAL)
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moviebuff2
Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Location: United States
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I finally got my logo at the bottom right corner of the screen.
The problem is encoding and saving the project file.
Since this involves a filter, I think "direct stream" is out of the question. This would mean that I have to use some type of re-encoding/compression methods, i.e. loss of quality of a video made from my own VHS tape (no copyright violation here!).
Is there something that I can use without loss of quality?
Also, my video clip is an MPEG file. Can I save it as an MPEG file in VirtualDub?
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Baldrick
Administrator
Joined: 09 Aug 2000
Location: Sweden
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| moviebuff2 wrote: |
| Is there something that I can use without loss of quality? |
Not if you want it burnt in the video. You could use forced dvd subtitles if you are making a dvd but it's not that tricky to remove such.
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moviebuff2
Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Location: United States
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How about this software Magix Movie Edit Pro v. 12?
From the picture below, it looks like I can blend in various videos at different parts.
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Midzuki
Banned
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Location: UNREACHABLE
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| Quote: |
Also, my video clip is an MPEG file.
Can I save it as an MPEG file in VirtualDub? |
No. VirtualDub will save only video formats that can be put into
an AVI container.
BTW, it seems to me you are wanting to make things
more complicated than the strictly necessary. 
*****
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JohnnyMalaria
Member
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: United States
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| lordsmurf wrote: |
| When they are used, it needs to be vector art, not raster images..<snipped for brevity>...raster artwork has boogers on transparencies. |
Sorry, but that's just not true. PNG graphics can be blended into the video (which is a raster image) very successfully producing excellent results - if you know how to do it properly.
Our software does exactly this on live incoming video. It is used by a variety of commercial clients (one for channel-branding live satellite feeds of music stations) and another for adding scores + other information to live state-wide athletic events. The "butchered" video is archived to DV and DVD and web-streamed live. All the source images are PNG files and the quality is comparable to network TV.
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