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ricardouk
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Location: PORTUGAL
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This is how i setup avanti, i wont have to trick youtube since the bitrate is kept under 350.
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I love it when a plan comes together!
Ricardo Santos
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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So it's an encoder, OK. Well, I just encoded an .mpg file but I can't encode an .avi file. How do I do that? Also, what's that in the 'User VIDEO Options' box?
By the way, in the original guide in this thread, I was able to use the hex editor to edit .flv files that I encoded using TVC and Adobe Elements.
How do I get an .avi file loaded into avanti? Thanks!
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ricardouk
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Location: PORTUGAL
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no need to convert the mpg file into avi, just open the "folder" icon next to the "1" in red in the picture above, select the mpg file and avanti will acept and convert it.
_________________
I love it when a plan comes together!
Ricardo Santos
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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ricardouk
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Location: PORTUGAL
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| Captain Satellite wrote: |
I entered '345' in the bit rate box in Avanti but the encoded file said it was '487' before I ran it through HexEdit. Please let me know if you need anymore info. I appreciate any help that anybody is willing to offer. I hope that I am at least on the right track.  |
i havent tampered my flv files, if you look at my fisrt pic youll se ive put 294 for video and 48 for audio as bitrares. 294+48= 342. i ended up with a bitrate of 348.
if you follow my values ypu wont have to "hexefy" your flv.
what is the problem you're facing? if you want 128k for audio youll have to reduce you video bitrate a lot...... loosing quality
_________________
I love it when a plan comes together!
Ricardo Santos
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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Ok, I see. I don't think that accounts for the quality of my youtube upload, does it? As I understand it, can't I maintain the higher audio bitrate if I hexedit, therefore losing nothing?
My reason for the post is that compared to the other youtube uploads in this thread, mine looks like crap. Is that as good as I'm going to get considering my source?
Thanks for the reply. 
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ricardouk
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Location: PORTUGAL
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My 2 cents:
Not everyone has a fast internet connection, your source file has a duration of 30 seconds and the file you uploaded to youtube "weighs" 12 megs, to us on 512k connection is a nighmare to watch it because it takes so much time to load. i understand that you want people to see the audio quality but 12 megs for a 30 second clip. If you entend to share your videos remember that.
your video(hexefied)30sec=12megs ---> http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-KmpeNmulk
my(yours, 350k)) video 30sec= 1.27megs ----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-hJbu3MkZo
by the way i think your video on youtube looks great.
_________________
I love it when a plan comes together!
Ricardo Santos
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ricardouk
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Location: PORTUGAL
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ooopos, i think you gave the wrong link for the mpg because the one i downloaded has only 30 seconds duration
_________________
I love it when a plan comes together!
Ricardo Santos
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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Click here for what I have now after more experimenting. Now I'd like to learn more about 45tripp's method. I'd like to undertstand what is going on in Steps 1 and 2. Does it work in conjunction with avanti?
Sorry your connection is slow, but I think most people that watch videos online have a high speed connection. Thanks for the help - I couldn't have gotten this far with out you! (I honestly think this is as good as it is going to get). 
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ricardouk
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Location: PORTUGAL
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| Captain Satellite wrote: |
| but I think most people that watch videos online have a high speed connection. |
i disagree and WORLDWIDE STATS confirms it, at 350k (youtube bitrate limit, wonder why?) the video goes smoothly without hickups.
the video looks good, but it freezes for a few seconds every 3 seconds.(net speed)
No need to thanks thats what the forum is for
Steps 1 and 2 are for people that like to use ffmpeg (the engine behind avanti) with commnad lines (Dos "alike"), Avanti is a program made for users that dont like to use command lines(me), youll get same quality with either method as long the settings are the same.
_________________
I love it when a plan comes together!
Ricardo Santos
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45tripp
Dolphin Blue
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Location: Triptonia
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See!
You managed just fine.
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
Well, I just encoded an .mpg file but I can't encode an .avi file. How do I do that? Also, what's that in the 'User VIDEO Options' box?
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Of course avanti can encode avis...
can't really tell what you are doing wrong without more info.
"user video/audio options" is essentially access to the commandline.
| ricardouk wrote: |
i havent tampered my flv files, if you look at my fisrt pic youll se ive put 294 for video and 48 for audio as bitrares. 294+48= 342. i ended up with a bitrate of 348. |
cutting it rather fine.
I remember 342k being the max combined audiovisual elementary bitrate. I think I had one fail as it hit the 350k when muxed.
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
| As I understand it, can't I maintain the higher audio bitrate if I hexedit, therefore losing nothing? |
That's the point.
Control!
Here audio has priority...
You should be willing to sacrifice video.
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
My reason for the post is that compared to the other youtube uploads in this thread, mine looks like crap. Is that as good as I'm going to get considering my source? |
Your source does not help. Fine detail, in the focus area. Already got ringing...
Not as compressible as you'd like.
That's what filtering is for.
You can filter to make your source more compressible.
Which is the answer to the DV question, i think, Ricardo asked. DV can be ugly, noisy, shaky... not nicely compressible.
Also a lot you can do when in control of the camera...
That shirt is not helping.
Your clip didn't look like crap.
The worst thing about it was the messed up aspect ratio.
It sounds good too.
I owe you a dollar!
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
| Now I'd like to learn more about 45tripp's method. I'd like to undertstand what is going on in Steps 1 and 2. Does it work in conjunction with avanti? |
Step 2 is encoding.
You've done that just fine.
Step 1 is the more complex part. (noted optional and advanced)
Source prep.
Inverse telecine, de-interlacing, and so on...
You have a progressive clip, so that was one less worry.
You could benefit from some filtering though.
Yes it works fine with Avanti.
Avanti is set up to work harmoniously with avisynth.
btw
Ricardo do you not have avisynth installed?
I noticed the red warning in avanti about the ffmpeg/avisynth combo not found.
That's not a problem anymore, so I assume you don't have avisynth installed or have a filter in the plugins folder you shouldn't. if there's a problem, report in the thread to Chris.
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
Sorry your connection is slow, but I think most people that watch videos online have a high speed connection. |
Untrue.
I'm with Ricardo.
I'm sure you know your target audience better than we do though.
Anyway,
filtering is an art, or fine game...
and you have to decide when it's worthwile and how much time the source deserves...
I just played with a few simple things.
noise reduction and blur.
i liked the way you went with colouring, but thought it heavy.
dropped framerate all the way to 20fps. No heavy motion here. Can easily half the framerate I'd say.
encoded with the same settings you first posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVZiFDF0m_A
gl
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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| 45tripp wrote: |
See!
You managed just fine. |
Thanks for taking the time to answer my post, 45tripp. I got the .avi to work after all, BUT, I tweaked the color and contrast in APE and exported the file as .mpg. I've always enjoyed a saturated picture, personal preference I suppose.
| 45tripp wrote: |
| "user video/audio options" is essentially access to the commandline. |
I would like to learn more about this. Are there other guides that can teach me how to use this feature?
| 45tripp wrote: |
That's the point.
Control!
Here audio has priority...
You should be willing to sacrifice video. |
I've tried to go lower than 700 kbps but the picture is blocked. That's why my final file is 19.5 mb.
| 45tripp wrote: |
Your source does not help. Fine detail, in the focus area. Already got ringing...
Not as compressible as you'd like.
That's what filtering is for.
You can filter to make your source more compressible.
Which is the answer to the DV question, i think, Ricardo asked. DV can be ugly, noisy, shaky... not nicely compressible.
Also a lot you can do when in control of the camera...
That shirt is not helping. |
I don't know what ringing is, sorry. I would love to learn more about filtering. Is that what I would use avisynth for? Is there a good guide for that? I shot the video so if you could suggest anything that I should be doing on that end I could try that. I just grabbed a shirt, I agree! 
| 45tripp wrote: |
Your clip didn't look like crap.
The worst thing about it was the messed up aspect ratio.
It sounds good too.
I owe you a dollar! |
I suppose "crap" is a stretch. I'm comparing it to your stuff, so in comparison it looks like crap. Right now I'd trade my licks for some video editing skills. 
| 45tripp wrote: |
Step 1 is the more complex part. (noted optional and advanced)
Source prep.
Inverse telecine, de-interlacing, and so on...
You have a progressive clip, so that was one less worry.
You could benefit from some filtering though. |
I'm wondering how hard this would be to learn how to do. I'm really willing to tweak these clips. I can't expect or ask you to go into that in this thread but if you could point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful.
| 45tripp wrote: |
Yes it works fine with Avanti.
Avanti is set up to work harmoniously with avisynth. |
Time to do some guide hunting.
| 45tripp wrote: |
Untrue.
I'm with Ricardo.
I'm sure you know your target audience better than we do though. |
I don't and I am wrong. Thanks to both of you for bringing this to my attention!
| 45tripp wrote: |
Anyway,
filtering is an art, or fine game...
and you have to decide when it's worthwile and how much time the source deserves...
I just played with a few simple things.
noise reduction and blur.
i liked the way you went with colouring, but thought it heavy.
dropped framerate all the way to 20fps. No heavy motion here. Can easily half the framerate I'd say.
encoded with the same settings you first posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVZiFDF0m_A
gl |
Damn, that looks great! It looks better than my 20mb file. I'll bet you kept the size down too. I would like to know how you did that but I'm not sure you'd want to go into that. Maybe point me towards some guides? I'm willing to spend as much time as it takes, so time and effort are not an issue for me. I tried dropping my framerate in avanti and it didn't do anything to the size of the file.
I know that there's a lot to digest in my reply, but your guide is so great it really pumped me up. As far as "no thanks" being necessary, ricardo, anytime that somebody sacrafices some of their time to help me, thanks are certainly in order.
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ricardouk
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Location: PORTUGAL
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| 45tripp wrote: |
btw
Ricardo do you not have avisynth installed?
I noticed the red warning in avanti about the ffmpeg/avisynth combo not found.
That's not a problem anymore, so I assume you don't have avisynth installed or have a filter in the plugins folder you shouldn't. if there's a problem, report in the thread to Chris. |
i get that warning when i try to open avs files, i have avisynth 2.57 installed.
I noticed a new version up will test and see if the same error pops up. Than
Edit: That error still shows up, will report it. Thanks
_________________
I love it when a plan comes together!
Ricardo Santos
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45tripp
Dolphin Blue
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Location: Triptonia
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| Captain Satellite wrote: |
Thanks for taking the time to answer my post, 45tripp. I got the .avi to work after all, BUT, I tweaked the color and contrast in APE and exported the file as .mpg.
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No need to use ape for tweaking colour.
exporting to mpg sounds unhealthy.
| 45tripp wrote: |
| "user video/audio options" is essentially access to the commandline. |
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
| I would like to learn more about this. Are there other guides that can teach me how to use this feature? |
no, not really.
read the ffmpeg manual.
Soopafresh linked to a how to yesterday
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic338564.html
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
| I don't know what ringing is, sorry. I would love to learn more about filtering. Is that what I would use avisynth for? Is there a good guide for that? I shot the video so if you could suggest anything that I should be doing on that end I could try that. I just grabbed a shirt, I agree! |
Ringing is trailing noise around a moving object.
Yes avisynth. Essential tool. Start using it, there's no going back.
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Main_Page#New_to_AviSynth_-_start_here
which also links to this:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech/index.html
a good read.
There's the doom9 forum where developers of filters hang,
and people churn out scripts that take days to run.
If you're pumped, visit and start reading.
It's good to find a specific task and start reading about it, and how other people deal with it.
The speakers are heavy on detail that doesn't interest us.
Mostly the shirt though that I find objectional
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
Damn, that looks great! It looks better than my 20mb file. I'll bet you kept the size down too.
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Well it's really blurred, but compared to the alternative, yes it does look good.
Your 700k has more detail but still retains some ugly artifacts.
I used the settings you first posted. 345k video, 128k audio. Pushing to 500k, maybe a bit high for easy dreamy streaming.
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
I would like to know how you did that but I'm not sure you'd want to go into that. |
I can tell you exactly. My only concern is people blindly using what I crudely cooked for anything.
| Code: |
directshowsource("vhelptest.mpg")
bicubicresize(320,240)
tweak(cont=1.2, bright=-20, sat=1.3, hue=4)
FFT3DGPU()
blur(0.1)
changefps(20) |
Of course I'd always use dgindex, and load with mpeg2source(),
was just too bored to bother this time.
(fft3dgpu() is an external filter)
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
I tried dropping my framerate in avanti and it didn't do anything to the size of the file. |
Never used ffmpeg for framerate change. Can't comment on it.
As you see I used avisynth.
| Captain Satellite wrote: |
| Right now I'd trade my licks for some video editing skills. |
Does one need the devil to seal such deals?
I don't have editing skills though.
gl
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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That is A LOT to digest - thanks! I have a lot of reading to do!
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Habboi
Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Hello there I am very glad I found this little guide. I wanted to improve the quality of my videos and managed to find this via Google.
Anyway I just wanted to say I've followed your guide and at first found it a bit hard to understand but a fresh mind helped. Anyway I wanted to explain what I did as I have some questions in a minute.
Basically I recorded a game via FRAPS which saves the video as an uncompressed .avi...Now with my set of videos I add a small title intro using Sony Vegas 7.0. I first experimented and found that saving to AVI meant that the video would not be converted to FLV by MPlayer. So I tried a WMV and that worked. Only problem I've found is it doesn't convert any video unless I add to the command line:
-lavfopts i_certify_that_my_video_stream_does_not_use_b_frames
As it complains it cant initialise the Muxer.
So adding that in it converts my 336x488 WMV video into an FLV file. Now I changed the audio to 48k and raised the bitrate from 400 to 1000. This was my first try as I now realise it affects the netload. Anyway using HEXCELLENT (German Version since that is all I could find) I edited the duration and thus the bitrate lowered to 345...
I uploaded it to youtube and got the following results:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJjPlak9rbc
As you can see it is pretty good and I am happy with that. A 1 minute and I think 43 seconds video that was changed to 3:34 isn't bad. Anyway that was just a test and from the feedback it seems changing it to 1000 wasn't a good idea. So here are my questions:
Basically since 1000 isn't a good idea since my 'real' videos will be much longer. Possible 10 mins + so what is a good suggested bitrate? I want a really good quality set of videos and I am not too concerned with audio quality...I suppose I should go back to 44k instead of 48.
Also should I therefore cut the videos up to preserve quality? Like Part 1 Part 2 kinda thing? I assume that the longer a video is. The more you have to edit it with HEX the worse the quality gets? Forgive me I'm not a big video editor technical kinda guy.
And lastly can you suggest anything else...Perhaps why I have to add that command line or why it refuses to convert my AVI to FLV...Just to give you an idea the AVI is around 1 gig uncompressed so that could be why? Oh also do you think Youtube will catch on and remove the videos that use this?
Thanks for reading. I look forward to a reply.
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45tripp
Dolphin Blue
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Location: Triptonia
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| Habboi wrote: |
Only problem I've found is it doesn't convert any video unless I add to the command line:
-lavfopts i_certify_that_my_video_stream_does_not_use_b_frames |
Your mencoder copy is outdated.
get mplayer from here
http://oss.netfarm.it/mplayer-win32.php
| Habboi wrote: |
Now with my set of videos I add a small title intro using Sony Vegas 7.0. I first experimented and found that saving to AVI meant that the video would not be converted to FLV by MPlayer. |
why not?
errors?
try again with newer version.
very long intro btw.
| Habboi wrote: |
So I tried a WMV and that worked. |
wmv is fine.
it was an option when forced into 2 step encodes
| Habboi wrote: |
Anyway using HEXCELLENT (German Version since that is all I could find) |
http://www.torry.net/pages.php?id=1176
| Habboi wrote: |
Anyway that was just a test and from the feedback it seems changing it to 1000 wasn't a good idea. |
Probably not. try again around the 500k mark
| Habboi wrote: |
| Audio. I suppose I should go back to 44k instead of 48. |
I've used 32k
| Habboi wrote: |
Basically since 1000 isn't a good idea since my 'real' videos will be much longer. Possible 10 mins + so what is a good suggested bitrate?
Also should I therefore cut the videos up to preserve quality? Like Part 1 Part 2 kinda thing? I assume that the longer a video is. The more you have to edit it with HEX the worse the quality gets? |
if you want quality, then yes you'll have to split them up.
if you want to upload 10+ mins then quality will obviously suffer. you'll have to shorten duration with hexcellent and will have to use a lower bitrate. (kill audio?)
| Habboi wrote: |
| Oh also do you think Youtube will catch on and remove the videos that use this? |
No
gl
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Habboi
Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Alright thanks for the reply. Following your advice and using the updated programs I am pretty happy. Although at 500 Kbit it still looks horrible. I'm experimenting to see if everyone is happy with 750 Kbit...Funny thing is with 1000 Kbit the video worked fine for me and I even re-downloaded it after removing saved data and there was no lag. But with 750 I got 2 instances where it paused for a bit...
Thanks anyway. I'll come back if I have any more questions.
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Cornucopia
Patently Pending
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Location: E-Cnt. IL, USA
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Habboi, a shooter cap like that doesn't have lots of motion, or lots of fine/random detail, or lots of color depth. So...
You could preprocess your clip with Virtualdub (etc) making an intermediate lossless file that is 10/12/15/20fps (instead of 30), smoothed more, and 8/10/12/15/16bits of color depth (instead of 24). Subsequent processiing would make MUCH better use of the FLV's compression bitbudget--even with reduced overall bitrate--and without much noticeable difference in final/perceptible quality. This process can be extrapolated even further (w/ judicious editing, tweaking audio more, etc--basically "VBR"-style optimizing without actual VBR encoding).
Scott
_________________
"You don't know what you got, until you lose it".--John Lennon
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Biggiesized
Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: United States
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45tripp,
I figured out the whole hex editing thing for duration, but I can't for the life of me understand how the frame rate values work. Could you expain how to derive proper values for them? I have a video for instance that was 59.94 FPS and I have no idea how you account for that.
Also, is it theoretically possible to (assuming I don't want to mess up the video timeline metadata) to edit the reported bitrates for video and audio so they appear under a combined 350 Kb/s? I know changing the duration averages them out lower, but I hate having a messed up timeline like the TVC method.
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