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Denvers Dawgs
Learnin'
Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Location: Right Behind You. . .
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Will a dvd player that upconverts to 1080i look that much better on my 1080p DLP, than just my regular dvd player? I have a Mitsubishi WD52627 1080p DLP
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What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity....
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lumis
Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: the remnants of pangea
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Yeah, that's why they sell them.
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edDV
Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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Mileage varies.
Your 1080P DLP TV does the upscale as well so you are setting up a competition between the player and TV that will vary by type of DVD (480i or 480p).
Lets look at a progressive 720x480p/23.976 DVD first. Normal progressive DVD players ouput these as 720x489i/29.97 (telecined as NTSC or YPbPr) or 720x480p/59.94 over YPbPr only.
1st, progressive DVD sent to TV as 480i/29.97 vs 480p/59.94 analog or digital.
In the case of 480i, the HDTV would need to do the reverse telecine and upscale and frame repeat to 1920x1080p/59.94. 480p would only need upscale.
Most would predict TV upscale from 480p/59.94 would win and a digital connection has potential for higher quality than YPbPr but it would only be noticed on the better HDTV displays
2nd, progressive DVD sent to the TV as 1080i/29.97 (DVD player telecines and upscales). In this case the HDTV still needs to perform the inverse telecine. A 1080p set would then have to frame repeat the resulting 1920x1080p/23.94 to 1920x1080p/59.94. In theory this should be equal to the digital 480i case. The burden is for the TV to perform well at inverse telecine in both cases.
3rd possibility, progressive DVD sent to the TV as 1280x720p/59.94 instead of 720x480p/59.94 (upscale and frame repeat in the player). The TV would need to upscale again from 1280x720p/59.94 to 1920x1080p/59.94. Is this better than the TV upscaling all at once from 720x480p/59.94 to 1920x1080p/59.94? Is there an advantage to the player doing half the job? I don't know. Lets go look at the results.
After we agree on progressive DVD playback, then we can take on the more difficult 480i/29.97 interlace DVD.
PS: It should be noted that many upscaling players won't upscale copy protected DVDs at all or in cases where it will, it may only upscale on DVI or HDMI. If that happens, you are back to 480p/59.94 as the better solution for a progressive DVD.
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Denvers Dawgs
Learnin'
Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Location: Right Behind You. . .
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Ok my dlp has hdmi connections. So would it be worth it for me to buy an upscaling dvd player?
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What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity....
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edDV
Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Denvers Dawgs wrote: |
| Ok my dlp has hdmi connections. So would it be worth it for me to buy an upscaling dvd player? |
It may be worth it to you if you can connect HDMI but the picture may or may not be better.
If you are interested in the picture being better for a 480i (interlace DVD) like you get from DVD recorders or DVD camcorders then you need an expensive upscaling DVD player with a fancy deinterlacer that outclasses the deinterlacer in your 1080p HDTV.
You already bought one. You can buy another if you think it is better.
PS: Reading the description of your Mitsubishi WD52627 1080p DLP TV deinterlacer
"Mitsubishi also uses a high speed video processor called Plush1080p that upconverts 1080i signals to 1080p producing four times the resolution of traditional line doublers. Mitsubishi further enhances the picture performance with Dark Detailer, a system that displays deeper blacks and better dark scene detail."
You need to read the manual to find if all that applies to 480i input as well. It probably does.
If you think what you got is a load of crap, then you would go buy a DVD player with a better 480i/1080i deinterlacer. Look for the Faroudja DCDI at a minimum. If you think your HDTV is crappy at upscaling, you would get a DVD player that upscales as well. Make sure you can take it back if it doesn't outperform your TV's 480i/1080i on screen results.
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BJ_M
Patron
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Location: Canada
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the Mitsubishi deinterlacer /video processor is not that great ....
a good upscaling dvd player would outperform it ....
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"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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edDV
Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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Problem is it will only work with DVD playback. People should pay attention to the processor in the HDTV and pay more for a good one.
Bottom line, if all you watch are commercial 480p (film based) DVDs, then 480p out may be your best option. There is no upscale to 1080p from a DVD player and why telecine to 1080i for a progressive display? Internal TV upscale from 480p to 1080p is easy enough.
Interlace DVDs require fancy deinterlacers, as do 480i and 1080i broadcasts.
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manono
Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
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edDV
Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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The DVD_HD960XAA manual has little useful information on 1080p over HDMI as to frame rates. There seems to be a RGB / YPbPr / "monitor"? selection.
HD-DVD and BluRay DVD also support 1080p (with real 1080p).
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Megahurts
Member
Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Location: Redding, California
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I took a resolution chart (similar to edTVs' avatar) and made a short DVD. Played it back through 4 different players (2 upscaling, 2 standard) to a 47" LCD 1080p flatpanel. Three of the players used component and the other used HDMI.
The resolution results for 480p, 720p and 1080i where the same but the 480p chart was cropped (as much as 2" on sides and 1" top & bottom). The two upscale players switched to 720p or 1080i showed the full chart.
Seems like the LCD upscales 480 with built in overscan. Tried the same test using a 40" LCD RPTV with same results.
Don't know if this is common to all LCD, DLP or Plasma TVs.
So the only advantage for me using an upscaled player is to get the full picture.
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dwisniski
Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Location: Florence, NJ
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The Toshiba HD-A1 is a great upscaling DVD player, and it plays HD-DVD as well! 
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edDV
Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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| dwisniski wrote: |
| The Toshiba HD-A1 is a great upscaling DVD player, and it plays HD-DVD as well! |
Good point, that the new HD players also upscale normal DVD.
My decision is to wait for prices to come down and features to improve. Maybe I'll wait for the model that records HD DVD. But if I just bought a $3000 1080p display, I'd move faster.
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edDV
Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Megahurts wrote: |
...the 480p chart was cropped (as much as 2" on sides and 1" top & bottom). The two upscale players switched to 720p or 1080i showed the full chart.
Seems like the LCD upscales 480 with built in overscan. Tried the same test using a 40" LCD RPTV with same results.
Don't know if this is common to all LCD, DLP or Plasma TVs.
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That is interesting. Most HDTV sets are still designed for about 5% overscan. When full frame is displayed, lots of crap shows around the edges that cause typical customers to complain. The cropping you describe seems more than 5%.
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