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Confused: Why a VCR with TBC if separate TBC needed anyway?
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FulciLives
UNDEAD OVERLORD


Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 18:37 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
davideck wrote:
BrainStorm69 wrote:
The ES20 doesn't do any better than the Datavideo at straightening the vertical distortions? Did you use the rear s-video input of the ES20?

Yes, I used the rear inputs.
I will set it up again and post more images as soon as I can...

How about image comparrisons between with the DV cam in the chain and without the DV cam in the chain.

That way we can see exactly the effect of the DV cam or at least what it will look like when not using the DV cam.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman
_________________
"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE


gshelley61
Frequent Flyer


Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 19:00 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
OK - just checked out if passing through a copy protected signal through either the Panasonic ES20 and the Toshiba D-R4 will strip MV... it doesn't.

Still need a full frame TBC or other device to deal with that if needed.

BrainStorm69
Tobor


Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Location: Texas, USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 20:04 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
OK, I just checked things out with my Pioneer DVR-220. It actually does some mild correction of time base errors, but it is not up to snuff with the VCR internal TBCs, and in fact adds a little of its own flagging at the top of the picture that would be in the overscan.

See for yourself.



Straight from JVC - no TBC



From JVC - no TBC - passed through DVR-220

davideck
Preservationist


Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 21:01 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
FulciLives wrote:
How about image comparrisons between with the DV cam in the chain and without the DV cam in the chain.

That way we can see exactly the effect of the DV cam or at least what it will look like when not using the DV cam.

Here they are;


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> TBC-3000 -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> ES20 Rear S-Video (NR Off) -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> ES20 Rear S-Video (NR On) -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> MiniDV -> ES20 -> PVR-250

gshelley61
Frequent Flyer


Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 21:15 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
So the MiniDV camera has very strong time base correction capability... that's definitely good to know. I wonder if most brands and models of DV camcorders are this effective?

lordsmurf
Video Restorer


Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 21:30 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Many of them do, yes.
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FulciLives
UNDEAD OVERLORD


Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 21:32 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
gshelley61 wrote:
So the MiniDV camera has very strong time base correction capability... that's definitely good to know. I wonder if most brands and models of DV camcorders are this effective?

Pretty amazing that lil miniDV cam is in regards to it's TBC functionality!

OK ... who has a miniDV or Digital8 with analog-to-digital passthrough ... a new round of test are in order LOL

Unfortunately I only have an old Sony Hi8 myself and even that old thing is falling apart. So I need these tests to determine what new miniDV or Digital8 cam I should buy laugh.gif

- John "FulciLives" Coleman
_________________
"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE


BrainStorm69
Tobor


Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Location: Texas, USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 21:48 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
@davideck - that camcorder TBC is impressive. But can you passthrough a commercial VHS tape? Something tells me the answer is "no."

davideck
Preservationist


Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 22:10 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
BrainStorm69 wrote:
@davideck - that camcorder TBC is impressive. But can you passthrough a commercial VHS tape?

Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.

gshelley61
Frequent Flyer


Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 22:12 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
BrainStorm69 wrote:
@davideck - that camcorder TBC is impressive. But can you passthrough a commercial VHS tape? Something tells me the answer is "no."


Just tried it with my Canon Optura 20... no go. The camcorder periodically beeps and interrupts the video pass through with a Copy Protected - Dubbing Restricted message.

BrainStorm69
Tobor


Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Location: Texas, USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 22:33 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Hmmmmm....so it seems to vary from camcorder to camcorder with respect to commercial tapes. gshelley, does your camcorder seem to have as strong a TBC as davideck's? Or do you have any good way of knowing for sure?

gshelley61
Frequent Flyer


Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 22:41 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I was able to pass through a copy protected signal with my Sony DCR-TRV330 Digital8 camcorder... but my two DVD recorders still rejected the resulting DV stream as copy protected.

BrainStorm69
Tobor


Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Location: Texas, USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 22:50 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
davideck wrote:
Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.


Are you capturing with the ES20, or passing it through and capturing with your PVR-250? If the PVR-250, does it normally capture copy protected stuff w/o a problem?

FulciLives
UNDEAD OVERLORD


Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 23:15 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
The Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150, 250, 350 and USB 2.0 all disregard copy protection. So does the impressive ADS Instant DVD 2.0 (another USB 2.0 hardware MPEG capture device).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman
_________________
"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE


davideck
Preservationist


Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 23:30 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
BrainStorm69 wrote:
davideck wrote:
Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.


Are you capturing with the ES20, or passing it through and capturing with your PVR-250? If the PVR-250, does it normally capture copy protected stuff w/o a problem?

I was capturing with the PVR-250.

FulciLives
UNDEAD OVERLORD


Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
Post Posted: Feb 02, 2006 23:49 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
davideck wrote:
BrainStorm69 wrote:
davideck wrote:
Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.


Are you capturing with the ES20, or passing it through and capturing with your PVR-250? If the PVR-250, does it normally capture copy protected stuff w/o a problem?

I was capturing with the PVR-250.

Well I take it we are sure that the STAR WARS V (I assume you mean EMPIRE STRIKES BACK) VHS has copy protection of some kind so it is good news that the miniDV passes it but does it remove the copy protection?

How about same set-up but this time try to record it on the Panny to see if it is possible or not?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman
_________________
"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE


davideck
Preservationist


Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 03, 2006 00:06 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
FulciLives wrote:
How about same set-up but this time try to record it on the Panny to see if it is possible or not?

No. The ES20 will not record and displays a copyright warning.

davideck
Preservationist


Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 03, 2006 11:24 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Just FYI, the Lite-On 5104 DVD Recorder also provides continuous sync. Do all DVD Recorders function as frame synchronizers?

One annoying "feature" on the 5104 is the transport control menu that is ALWAYS overlayed on top of its video outputs during 1394 input selection. Has anyone discovered a way to turn this menu off? It prevents using the 5104 as a passthru 1394 to S-Video converter.

BrainStorm69
Tobor


Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Location: Texas, USA
Post Posted: Feb 04, 2006 14:14 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
@davideck - what do you think of your JVC GR DVL915U as far as camcorders go? Is it pretty good? Since I don't have a MiniDV camcorder, I'm wondering if I ought to consider buying a used one in good shape for "dual" purposes. biggrin.gif

FulciLives
UNDEAD OVERLORD


Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
Post Posted: Feb 04, 2006 14:31 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
BrainStorm69 wrote:
@davideck - what do you think of your JVC GR DVL915U as far as camcorders go? Is it pretty good? Since I don't have a MiniDV camcorder, I'm wondering if I ought to consider buying a used one in good shape for "dual" purposes. biggrin.gif

The GR DVL915U must be an old model. I looked at the current models and this looks to be the one to buy ---> GR-DF550US

The MSRP is $599.95 but using PRICEGRABBER.COM I found it for as little as $359.00 with free shipping.

There are several cheaper models but this was the cheapest one that said it supported analog-to-digital passthrough.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
I looked again and I made a mistake. There are actually two models under the GR-DF550US (and therefore cheaper) that support analog-to-digital passthrough. They are the GR-DF450US (MSRP = $549.95) and the GR-DF430US (MSRP = $499.95)

The cheapest is the GR-DF430US which can be had for as little as $309 with free shipping thanks to using PRICEGRABBER.COM
_________________
"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE


FulciLives
UNDEAD OVERLORD


Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
Post Posted: Feb 04, 2006 14:41 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I wanted to try this myself and finally have the time but I tried to download the file and it said that the link had expired.

Any chance of re-posting it or maybe someone can just e-mail it to me? I have yahoo mail which allows files up to 10MB in size per e-mail.

coleman4829@yahoo.com

- John "FulciLives" Coleman
_________________
"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE


davideck
Preservationist


Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
Post Posted: Feb 04, 2006 19:31 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
BrainStorm69 wrote:
@davideck - what do you think of your JVC GR DVL915U as far as camcorders go?

It's a nice "corder" with a mediocre "cam".
Its low light performance is marginal. I guess that's pretty common. But it looked good in the store and the colors were spot on.

One nice feature for me was its ability to auto assemble edit with a suitable record VCR. I was still editing to SVHS at the time. Plus, its special effects and scene transitions can be added during the assemble process after the footage has been taken. So it's a nice editor as well.

BrainStorm69
Tobor


Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Location: Texas, USA
Post Posted: Feb 04, 2006 22:01 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
FulciLives wrote:
I wanted to try this myself and finally have the time but I tried to download the file and it said that the link had expired.

Any chance of re-posting it or maybe someone can just e-mail it to me? I have yahoo mail which allows files up to 10MB in size per e-mail.

coleman4829@yahoo.com

- John "FulciLives" Coleman


Which test DVD do you need? I can repost to yousendit.

edit: I'm assuming you mean the original for this thread. Uploading to yousendit right now. Will repost the link when it's completed.

edit2: Here is the new link

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2NWBMGE39CZPE1XSF5MD7WHEY6

FulciLives
UNDEAD OVERLORD


Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
Post Posted: Feb 05, 2006 00:52 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
BrainStorm69 wrote:
FulciLives wrote:
I wanted to try this myself and finally have the time but I tried to download the file and it said that the link had expired.

Any chance of re-posting it or maybe someone can just e-mail it to me? I have yahoo mail which allows files up to 10MB in size per e-mail.

coleman4829@yahoo.com

- John "FulciLives" Coleman


Which test DVD do you need? I can repost to yousendit.

edit: I'm assuming you mean the original for this thread. Uploading to yousendit right now. Will repost the link when it's completed.

edit2: Here is the new link