DVD Recorder models - Picture Quality and Features Analysis

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

These images are from an action sequence from "The Matrix". It compares the original, the ES35V and the ES10 encodes.

The original,

ES35V XP mode

ES35V SP mode

ES35V LP mode

This is the ES10 LP mode for comparision

There are about the same number of macroblocks in both the LP encodes but do the they seem more subtle, for example, in Morpheus's head with the new encoder?

lacywest · Smallville Fan Joined: 28 Aug 2001 Location: Hanford CA

energy80s · Member Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Location: Northern Ireland

OK, finally got my captures of the Pioneer DVR-433 online. As there are quite a few, I've started a new thread here ... http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=297109

All comments greatfully received.

lacywest · Smallville Fan Joined: 28 Aug 2001 Location: Hanford CA

drd1812 · Posted: Apr 02, 2006 07:53

I was wondering, is it possible to later change the HD in these DVD recorders? And if so, is it easy to swap the HD?

Thanks, I am new here so I don't know if this has been asked...

MJA · Member Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: IL

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

I have a JVC-M10S sent to me for the purpose of identifying the source and cure for the famous "loading" bug. I believe that has been successfully done on this thread,
http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=255081&start=420

The M10S has been put through the same battery of tests as the other recorders on this thread. It is one of only two recorders tested that appears to be set up for IRE=0 instead of IRE=7.5 ( the other is the Sony RDR-GX315 ). The test results are for IRE=0 except for the black level tests in which tests for both IRE=0 and 7.5 are included. Neither the GX315 and M10S have black level adjustment or selection on the input side.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to M10S.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Capture software: VirtualDubMod followed by conversion from PNY format to JPG with 85% quality setting.

THX original test pattern for contrast,

M10S contrast XP mode, IRE=0

M10S contrast SP mode, IRE=0

M10S contrast LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480

THX original test pattern for black level

M10S black level XP mode, IRE=7.5

M10S black level XP mode, IRE=0

M10S black level SP mode, IRE=7.5

M10S black level SP mode, IRE=0

M10S black level LP mode, IRE=7.5, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480

M10S black level LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480

THX original color bar

M10S color bar XP mode, IRE=0

M10S color bar SP mode, IRE=0

M10S color bar LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480

ThX original from video clip.

M10S clip XP mode, IRE=0

M10S clip SP mode, IRE=0

M10S clip LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480

Below is the update of October 24, 2006

There was a question regarding whether M10S's are IRE=0 or IRE=7.5 machines. The following test results were done on a second M10S, s/n 10901584, manufactured May, 2004 in Japan to verify which IRE it is. The same S35 dvd player was used as a source with the same ICE AGE disk except to verify accuracy, the source IRE was measured with a scope to make certain that the source IRE 0 and 7.5 settings are accurate. The results are for the M10S in SP mode.

Original THX test pattern for contrast

Source IRE=7.5

Source IRE=0

THX original test pattern for black level

Source IRE=7.5

Source IRE=0

THX original color bar

Source IRE=7.5

Source IRE=0

ThX original from video clip.

Source IRE=7.5

Source IRE=0

The second M10S also is an IRE=0 machine. Here is a thread in which Gshelley61 independently reached the same conclusion,

http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1520709#1520709[/img]

These are the two units tested.

and

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

These are tests of the Polaroid DRM-2001G. Same setup as before.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to 2001G. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: TMPGEnc Author and VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting. [edit]The reason for TMPGEnc Author is that this recorder seems to only record in VR mode. VirtualDubMod cannot open the VR mode files but once they are imported into the computer with Author as mpg's, VirtualDubMod can then be used to extract still frames.

THX original test pattern for contrast,

2001G contrast XP mode

2001G contrast SP model

2001G contrast EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480

THX original test pattern for black level

2001G black level XP mode

2001G black level SP mode

2001G black level EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480

THX original color bar

2001G color bar XP mode

2001G color bar SP mode

2001G color bar EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480

ThX original from video clip

2001G clip XP mode

2001G clip SP mode

2001G clip EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480

[edit]

A few notes about this recorder,

1. It appears to record in VR mode only. A TV program was captured to a TY dvd-r disk. It was finalized and this is what the computer reports in drive D,

2. I had intended to use this capture with the Yesdvd software to see it it would produce a video mode disk but it will not start with -r media. With a +rw disk, it would start but only on the first capture. It seems it will only be useful for for creating chapters within one title and only if there is one title on the disk. If more than one title is captured, it will not start.

3. The tuner is mono. It was tested in a separate comment below with an oscilloscope on both channels.

4. This recorder has a zoom function like the Sony GX315.

5. The audio is recorded in mpeg1, layer 2 format.

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

Polaroid DRM-2001G photos.

Front view with top off

Back view with top off

Power supply

Western Digital hard drive

LSI processor with cemented on heatsink

Tuner by Xuguang Tech Co. model JS-6AMF/L13F2-F2

Additional magnetic shielding on steel cover over power supply. I have not seen that in any brand before. I nice item to prevent interference.

LIUE? It is intended to be LIVE but the U was the best they could do with seven segment displays.

Temperature of the LSI processor is similar to that in the JVC DR-M10S.

Copper foil grounding is yet another good shielding example.

The remote. This is the weak point of the product. At three feet it works like any other remote. At 8-9 feet, it requires a few pushes to get the right function. If you do not use Yesdvd to create menus ( the menu button only addresses Yesdvd menus ), the Navigator button goes to one screen, then up arrow to select dvd, and enter to get to the menu. The required three pushes from 8-9 feet can become 4-8 pushes. That gets old fast.

[edit1]The poor performance of the remote might be due to the use of two AAA batteries. The IR output may have been lowered to extend battery life.

[edit2]I have since returned this unit to Walmart on the advice of another forum member,"Next", who informed me that Walmart had recalled these units probably in April or May. The unit I had tested above had a manufacture date of February/2006. "Next" also commented that his unit does not have the problem with the remote although he did return one that did.

TBoneit · Member Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Location: USA

Flouescent lights? I have seen them interfere with IR remotes. When I was trying out the Digital cable some years ago. I kept having remote problems. Cable guy came and tested. With lights off worked fine, lights On you had to get real close. I have remotes with aaa batteries and they work fine. Cheap remotes (IR recepetors?) seem to have a lower range of angles with remote to unit where they will work.

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

Thanks for the tip about flourescent lights but there are none in the room so it must be the inexpensive design of the remote.

There have been questions about whether the tuner is mono or stereo. I put channel 4 output from the TV to a two channel oscilloscope,

TV stereo output for channel 4,

Output from DRM2001G tuned to channel 4 ( same program ).

This was one of several pics. The results were identical in all of them. Looks like both channels have the same information.

Cobra · Moderator Joined: 06 May 2002 Location: UK

I've made this thread a sticky, as per lordsmurf's request.

/ Cobra
_________________

Forum Rules :: PM me with any questions/problems/suggestions!

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

These are tests of the RCA 8030N. Same setup as before.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to the 8030N. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: Tsunami Media Editor and VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting.The reason for Media Editor is that this recorder like the Polaroid 2001G records in DVD+VR format. VirtualDubMod cannot open the VR mode files but once they are imported into the computer with Media Editor as mpeg's, VirtualDubMod can then be used to extract still frames.

The RCA does not have XP, SP, LP modes. Instead it identifies the modes as 1(BEST) - 1 hour, 2(HIGH) - 2 hour, 3(GOOD) - 3 hour, and 4(NORMAL) - 4 hour in setup. There is no flex mode for in between times. Starting in mode 3, the 8030N drops from 720 by 480 to 352 by 480 resolution. The images below have been resized to 720 by 480 for these modes.

Original THX contrast image

8030N mode 1 contrast

8030N mode 2 contrast

8030N mode 3 contrast

8030N mode 4 contrast

Original THX black level image

8030N mode 1 black

8030N mode 2 black

8030N mode 3 black

8030N mode 4 black

Original THX color bar image

8030N mode 1 colorbar

8030N mode 2 colorbar

8030N mode 3 colorbar

8030N mode 4 colorbar

Original THX image from clip

8030N mode 1 clip image

8030N mode 2 clip image

8030N mode 3 clip image

8030N mode 4 clip image

Notes:

1. From the clip images, the 8030N captures are a bit on the yellow side.

2. The tuner is mono like the Polaroid 2001G but it is not as good. Captures from the tuner in dark scenes show thick alternating horizontal bars as in these two images.

3. The audio of the 8030N is Dolby unlike the 2001G's mpeg1, layer 2 audio.

4. The 8030N has a buffer which can be set for one hour or two. I saw one report that said the two hour buffer setting did not work. It worked in this unit.

5. The burning firmware is identified as StorageLabs

6. The IRE level seems a bit off in the black level tests as if the unit cannot reach IRE = 7.5. It was tested with a source IRE = 0 as well. The result was much darker than the original THX pattern.

[edit] Looking at the images a bit more, it seems the gain rather than the IRE may be off. The blacks are not sufficiently black but the whites are a bit dark as well. This shows up in the contrast tests which are mostly white, but the 8030N whites are not as bright.

7. The setup for record quality indicates mode 1 is one hour but when actually recording in mode 1 to a dvd-r, the reported time available is one hour, 24 minutes. 24 minutes is more variation than what might be expected from VBR encoding. It may be that this recorder cannot reach as high bitrates as others or it is deliberately being limited.

8. There are component outputs but no component inputs.

9. The maximum length of time for a single title on the hdd is eight hours in #2 mode. A test was run for the recorder to capture to an empty hdd from 7am to 9pm. Two titles were produced. One ran from 7am to 3pm and the second from 3pm to 9pm.

10. Copy of a mode 2, 18 minute long recording from the hdd to a TDK dvd-rw, X4 disk took 5 minutes and 28 seconds.

11. A transfer from the hdd of a two video in Mode 2 was made to a Taiyo Yuden TYG02, x8 dvd-r disk. The transfer took 36 minutes plus the additional time to finalize. The disk played back well on a Panasonic and Pioneer.

12. A transfer from the hdd of a mode 2 video to a TDK, X4, dvd-rw, then "made compatible" in "disc actions" played on the RCA but did not play on a Panasonic and Pioneer.

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

Photos of the RCA DRC8030N

Front view

Rear view

Top overview,

Power supply

Seagate Caviar 80 GB hdd

Samsung tuner

Smartpro International dvd-drive

Zoran mpeg processor. I did not measure its temperature but with no heatsink it must be relatively cool

Bottom view. The fan is small but there are a good number of vent holes.

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

These are tests of the Panasonic DMR-EH55S. Same setup as before. The test patterns were captured to the hdd then copied to a dvd-r.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to the EH55S. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting.

Original THX contrast image

EH55S contrast XP mode

EH55S contrast SP mode

EH55S contrast LP mode

Original THX black level image

EH55S black level XP mode

EH55S black level SP mode

EH55S black level LP mode

Original THX color bar image

EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=on, Line In NR = on

EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=off, Line In NR = off

EH55 color bar SP mode, DNR=on, Line In NR = on

EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=off, Line In NR = off

EH55 color bar LP mode, DNR=on, Line In NR = on

EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=off, Line In NR = off

Original THX image from clip

EH55S clip image XP mode

EH55S clip image SP mode

EH55S clip image LP mode

Notes:

1. Unlike some hdd recorders like the Pioneer 531H, the EH55S cannot erase from the hdd or copy a clip to a dvd disk while it is recording to the hard drive. The Pioneer can copy but not finalize while it is recording. The inability to erase hdd titles during recording can be a disadvantage if it is necessary to provide more space on the hdd during recording.

2. These are vob files created in two ways. The first is capture of "The Matrix" direct to dvd with the EH55S. The second is capture to hdd then to dvd to see if there is any difference.

The original Matrix file,
matrixorig1sec.vob

XP mode capture direct to dvd,
xpmatrixfastdvd.vob

SP mode capture direct to dvd,
spmatrixfastdvd.vob

LP mode capture direct to dvd,
lpmatrixfastdvd.vob

XP mode capture to hdd then to dvd,
xpmatrixfasthdd.vob

SP mode capture to hdd then to dvd.
spmatrixfasthdd.vob

LP mode capture to hdd then to dvd,
lpmatrixfasthdd.vob

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

Panasonic DMR-EH55S photos

Front with SD slot open and front panel input door closed

Front with SD slot closed and front panel input door open

Rear panel

Top view with cover off

Hard drive

Mpeg encoder board. The encoder is under the aluminum heatsink in the center.

DVD drive

Power supply

TV tuner

TV tuner close up

Rear panel detail 1

Rear panel detail 2

Rear panel detail 3

gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

Did you shut off the Line In video noise reduction for those recordings? It looks like it may have been on based on the upper end of the resolution scale of the multi-purpose test pattern.

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

It was in the default of "automatic". I will try "off" and run the tests again for comparison.

[edit] I have done three more captures with DNR ( which I believe only affects playback ) and Line In NR off and posted them above with the captures with DNR and Line In NR both on for comparison.

StuR · Member Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Location: United Kingdom

For those looking for info to decide on DVD recorders here's a good link with general outline, bit outdated but that makes the models cheaper now.
http://www.btinternet.com/~james_lancaster/whichdvd.HTML#10

trhouse · Member Joined: 28 Aug 2003

These are tests of the LG RC797T combo unit. Composite output from the source was used instead of S-video since the RC797T has no S-video inputs.

Below is a link to the manufacturer's description.
http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/tv|audio|video_digital%20 ... 797T.jhtml

Source: Panasonic ES35V recorder with DNR set to off. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting.

Original THX contrast image

RC797T contrast XP mode

RC797T contrast SP mode

RC797T contrast LP mode, resized from 352 by 480

Original THX black level image

RC797T black level XP mode

RC797T black level SP mode

RC797T black level LP mode, resized from 352 by 480

Original THX color bar image

RC797T color bar XP mode

RC797T color bar SP mode

RC797T color bar LP mode, resized from 352 by 480

Original THX image from clip

RC797T clip image XP mode

RC797T clip image SP mode

RC797T clip image LP mode, resized from 352 by 480

Notes:

1. The RC797T has no S-video inputs

2. Instead of a SD card reader this recorder has a USB port which can read flash drives or SD cards with a USB adapter. The transfer rate seems quite slow. The quality of the displayed jpeg is not all that good either. Burning the jpeg's to a dvd slide show is better.

3. The unit has a small footprint compared to the Panasonic DMR-ES35V. The RC797T is both a bit lowe