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skittelsen
Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Location: Rochester, USA
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I have the DMR-E50 and have no problems with the LP (4 hour) mode. It's 352x480 at about 2.5MB/sec, which looks fine for VHS recordings. However, I don't know why they talk about the 10 or 12 bit A/D video converters, when it looks like the TBC that all video has to go through has about a 5 bit resolution! It shows clearly banding on solid surfaces. To me this is a much bigger problem than macro-blocks in the mpeg compression at low bit rates.
_________________
http://steve.kittelsen.com
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Because this is not a question but a subjective point of view and comment about the results of the DVD conversions from VHS tapes, based on a personal experience, I have only one suggestion for you: buy a new, higher quality, VHS machine and “banding on solid surfaces” will certainly disappear. As a last resort for the extremely bad VHS tapes you can consider buying an external TBC. For more info about TBC’s and video processors go to:
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43
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chloh
Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2001
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Thks for tips! I wonder why ppl diss the LP and EP mode, I used them to put 6 hours of movie onto a single disc and it's very watchable, esp for comedies, cartoons, news, cooking shows and mini series.
My question to the expert is this:
HOW TO MAKE THE AUDIO MONO?
The line in is stereo, but if we are dubbing from a mono sound source (my cable is mono, as is my VCR) then the sound only comes out on the side that is plugged into the Panny. I searched hi and low but could not find a setting to MONO so that the single AUDIO IN comes out on both sides.
Any ideas?
Cheers
CH
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celso_java
Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Location: Brazil
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This post really made me feel doubts about what dvd recorder I shoud buy. In fact, the country I live JVC is so new that most of the shops doesn't have it.
Panny ones are usual here and I didn't buy one because I heard a lot about the JVC one. Despite of the loading I was still wanting to buy a JVC one.
But after reading a lot of msg telling picture quality in Panny are better I'm starting to think about buying a Panny.
Does anybody know what's the difference about the 50, 55 and 60 models? I can find easily here the 55.
Is there anyone here who owns both and could post pics comparing their picture quality?
Thanks
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Quote: |
HOW TO MAKE THE AUDIO MONO?
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The solution is very simple. Use Y-splitter cable and split the mono output from your VCR.
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Quote: |
| This post really made me feel doubts about what dvd recorder I shoud buy |
The differences between the models are not very important to casual user. The E-60 model is discontinued (it has DV input and few memory card slots) as well as E-50. Panasonic is coming with exciting new models of DVD recorders with the newest generation of AD processors, so expect price drop on existing line of recorders. If you have to buy now, don't have any doubts, look for the discounted price on E-55. It is one of the best DVD recorders on the market today and certainly the best value for your money.
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Yvon
Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2003
Location: Canada
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[quote="zorankarapancev"]
........Because of the “Fixed” setting, FR mode will give you full SP resolution of the recording up to 3 hours with a bit rate just below SP but well above LP. This is a remarkable quality achievement that I didn’t experience with any other brand of DVD recorders.......
Zoran quote]
I am a great fan of the Sharp DVD recorders. I have owned the Sharp DV-RW2U for over a year and I consider that no other DVD recorder could have a better PQ. The Digital Superpicture option on playback makes the picture look even better than what was seen on the TV while recording.
The modes FINE (1 hour), SP (2 hours) and EP (4 hours) are recorded at 8 MB/ps, 5 MB/ps, and 2.5 MB/ps respectively. If a 3 hour recording is programmed on the timer, it will record the entire 3 hours at a near SP fixed setting of 4 MB/ps. I can confirm it.
Yvon
_________________
N 45° 31' .949" L 73° 41' .047"
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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The Panasonic has the highest average bit rate from any DVD recorder on a market today, even at the XP and SP speed. This is achieved by lowering the resolution at 704x480, which is just a touch below 720x480.
At XP mode it records over 10 MB/ps, SP up to 8MB/ps and at 3Hr (FR) peaks over 4 MB/ps. At LP mode(4Hrs) it records somewhere around 2,5 MB/ps.
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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What speed do you guys record your television broadcasts at?
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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| Yvon wrote: |
| I am a great fan of the Sharp DVD recorders. I have owned the Sharp DV-RW2U for over a year and I consider that no other DVD recorder could have a better PQ. The Digital Superpicture option on playback makes the picture look even better than what was seen on the TV while recording. |
The ZORAN VADDIS V chipset is the magic in the box.
It is a very good encode, I agree.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com Guides for video capturing, restoring, authoring, burning. ATI AIW help.
NoMoreCoasters.com How to avoid burning bad discs. Blank media FAQ.
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Yvon
Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2003
Location: Canada
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| zorankarapancev wrote: |
The Panasonic has the highest average bit rate from any DVD recorder on a market today, even at the XP and SP speed. This is achieved by lowering the resolution at 704x480, which is just a touch below 720x480.
At XP mode it records over 10 MB/ps, SP up to 8MB/ps and at 3Hr (FR) peaks over 4 MB/ps. At LP mode(4Hrs) it records somewhere around 2,5 MB/ps. |
Once again, you are right, now that I have seen the Panasonic bitrates.
Thanks,
Yvon
_________________
N 45° 31' .949" L 73° 41' .047"
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Screens from recording done with FR mode 2Hr55min:
Rich and vibrant colors, deep blacks, sharp and detailed images without digital artifacts and macro blocks.
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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That image is too dark. There are no highlights. Darks (like brown hair) have turned to solid black. After recent research it has come to my attention that Panasonic is simply darker than it should be on encodes. That's the sole reason so many Panasonic fans think other machines are "too light" when it comes to image quality.
I further suggest that Panasonic has NEVER EVER fixed their IRE problems. What they have done to "correct" the issue is to allow the user to augment either the gamma or the luminance. Not the IRE. The results of such a change is that, while the "black level" is put to a darker tone, so are the lighter colors and whites. Furthermore, augmenting in this method would likely give the false appearance of "richer" colors, as darkening an image gives false ideal of "enriching color".
That really solves some of the mystery of Panasonic image quality. A lot of it is false, and gives users false impression of other machines that can truly do a better job.
The TIPS and TRICKS ... aye, TRICKS ... can help you, but it will never 100% correct these machines, not until Panasonic decides to entirely re-design the units from the ground up. They simply messed up so many years ago, and have been too lazy to fully correct their years-old mistakes.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com Guides for video capturing, restoring, authoring, burning. ATI AIW help.
NoMoreCoasters.com How to avoid burning bad discs. Blank media FAQ.
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Quote: |
That image is too dark. There are no highlights.
Darks (like brown hair) have turned to solid black. |
Since you didn’t see the original image captured on tape, please don’t make pointless and useless assumptions.
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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| zorankarapancev wrote: |
Screens from recording done with FR mode 2Hr55min:
Rich and vibrant colors, deep blacks, sharp and detailed images without digital artifacts and macro blocks. |
I appreciate your informative posts. I'm looking forward to the next generation of Panasonics.
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jrh1194
Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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Thanks zorankarapancev for posting those pictures...I see our favorite Panny basher is back criticizing again. Typical propaganda comments against Panasonic. These images are fine..Far superior to anything by that JVC crap and guess what...no loading problems!!! Some day he will wake up or maybe not.
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Captain Satellite
Space Cowboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: The Twilight Zone
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You know you're a doomed JVC owner when they post a sticky entitled "JVC DR-M10 Loading and Repair Question".
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jrh1194
Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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Captain Satellite - You are exactly right. Yet he spends all his time making up nonsense about Panasonic. I know that we all realize that what he says is bull. But I'm sure it will continue. The Panny units work great.Very good picture and NO RELIABILITY ISSUES!!!!! JVC and to a lesser extent Liteon are garbage.
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houtx67
Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
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| Quote: |
1. Go to SETUP - VIDEO - Black Level Control:
- Input level - make it "Darker".
- Composite & SVideo Output Level - make it "Lighter".
- Component Video Output Level - make it "Normal".
This will assure correct black level setting on your recorder (no brighter or darker recorded images compare to the originals). |
This is an informative post. I have been doing much of this already since I got my E-30 and then E-100.
My question is about point 1 above. I believe it was established earlier in the history of the DVD recorder hardware forum here that the best settings for US television recording would be to have the Input set to "Lighter" and the output set to "Darker" (component remains "normal"). The rationale being because of the higher IRE black level at which US television broadcasts. To set it to "Darker" would make the recording even darker. I have used the Light-In and Dark-Out for ~ 1 1/2 years on my E-100 and been very pleased with the results.
Does anyone have any comments or feedback regarding the optimal settings for the input and output?
Also, I would like to add that even though the Panasonics "cap" at the 4 GB level for real time recording on discs. If you have a harddrive model, you can high speed dub from the Harddrive at up to 4409 MB (the cap doesn't affect data transfer, only encoding). This means you can get about 2 hours and 11 minutes of SP mode onto a DVD-R high speed dubbed from the harddrive. This works great for (3) x tv 1 hr episodes that usually get down to about ~43 minutes when the commercials are edited out. It also means if you are recoding something a little over 2 hours, you can use your harddrive in SP mode to get it all without FR mode.
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gshelley61
Frequent Flyer
Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
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DVD's should be encoded with the black level set at 0 IRE. I believe the "darker" analog video input setting on the Panny DVD recorders will adjust a NTSC 7.5 IRE black level source (like VHS or laserdisc) to approximately 0 IRE. For sources that are already at 0 IRE, like MiniDV and other digital formats, "lighter" would probably be the correct input setting.
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Since the DV signal is in digital domain, it bypasses the TBC completely and therefore it is not affected from the black level control settings.
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gshelley61
Frequent Flyer
Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
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| zorankarapancev wrote: |
| Since the DV signal is in digital domain, it bypasses the TBC completely and therefore it is not affected from the black level control settings. |
The E50 unit I had did not have a firewire input, so s-video analog input is what I used to transfer DV tape. In fact, even though my JVC has a firewire input jack, I still usually run my MiniDV and Digital8 camcorder analog s-video output through my Proc Amp and then into the DVD recorder... the DV stream capture method doesn't allow one to correct for lighting conditions, color saturation, etc.
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gshelley61
Frequent Flyer
Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
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Just an informative note... used Panny E55 DVD recorders are going for less than $150 on eBay these days. That's a pretty good deal if you are thinking about checking one out.
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chloh
Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2001
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Thks. I thought of this, but I was hoping there was a more elegant solution. I also think, but am not sure, that physically splitting the signal with a cable will reduce the audio quality. Myth or fact?
As I am recording some opera, I would like the audio to be as good as possible.
Cheers
ch
| zorankarapancev wrote: |
| Quote: |
HOW TO MAKE THE AUDIO MONO?
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The solution is very simple. Use Y-splitter cable and split the mono output from your VCR. |
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Quote: |
physically splitting the signal with a cable will reduce the audio quality. Myth or fact?
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Physically splitting the signal with a cable will not reduce the audio quality. It will only reduce a little bit the audio level but it will not affect your enjoyment of listening to the music. If you visit a local RadioShack store, you can find affordable video processors with “audio gain” control. Buy one of those boxes and connect it between the VCR and the DVD recorder. Bust the audio signal to a higher level if that will make you happier.
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zorankarapancev
Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Quote: |
My question is about point 1 above. I believe it was established earlier in the history of the DVD recorder hardware forum here that the best settings for US television recording would be to have the Input set to "Lighter" and the output set to "Darker" (component remains "normal"). The rationale being because of the higher IRE black level at which US television broadcasts. To set it to "Darker" would make the recording even darker. I have used the Light-In and Dark-Out for ~ 1 1/2 years on my E-100 and been very pleased with the results.
Does anyone have any comments or feedback regarding the optimal settings for the input and output?
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More about the correct choice betwen "Lighter" and "Darker":
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=258753&start=90
gshelley61 is positive that "Darker" should be the right choice.
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ann coates
Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Location: New York
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Out of curiosity what is everyone who has a Panasonic using for their settings?
I though the correct setting was:
Input level - "Darker"
Composite and SVideo Output Level - "Lighter"
Component Video Output Level - "Normal"
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