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davideck
Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
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robroth
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Location: United States
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thanks for the pointer, hadn't come across that thread yet. of course it only serves to confuse things even further. it starts out with the JVC being superior and shifts toward pro-panny later in the thread  . It sounds like I need to just pick one and go with it and if I have an issue, buy a standalone TBC (ouch). I wish I could test the tapes I need to dub someplace before investing the $$$. I could pay someone to do it, but I'm a techie gizmo geek and would rather do it myself.
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Don James
Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: The Jungle
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davideck
Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: USA
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DVD Recorders have an internal Frame Synchronizer with some inherent TBC performance. This makes them suitable for use as an external TBC/Frame Synchronizer in passthrough mode. They will output continuous sync regardless of input disturbances, thereby eliminating many audio/video skew issues when capturing from analog tape.
Frame Synchronization and Timebase Correction are independent functions. Frame Synchronization is performed on the read side of memory to guarantee continuous sync at the video output. Timebase Correction is performed on the write side of memory by deriving a suitable sampling clock with which to digitize the video input. The characteristics of the sampling clock determine the Timebase Correction capability. For more details; http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=279530
TBC performance capabilities vary among different manufacturers. Toshiba DVD Recorders provide noticeable improvement of horizontal jitter errors. It was mentioned earlier that the TBC/Frame Synchronizer in the Panasonic ES10 does a fine job of correcting some vertical disturbances.
DVD Recorders do NOT remove copy protection. In fact, they sometimes falsely identify copy protection on unprotected sources and refuse to record. In passthrough mode, they will insert the MV protection if they detect it in the input source (falsely or otherwise). If this is an issue, then an "image stabilizing" device or an actual external TBC (DataVideo or AVT-8710) may be required.
_________________
Life is better when you focus on the signals instead of the noise.
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CCEncoder
Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Location: NC
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| robroth wrote: |
| an old post i realize but lots of valuable info here. one question i'm trying to determine is which is a better machine, a jvc 9800 or the panny 1980. in this thread the panny is described as having a full field TBC, the jvc is described as having the "4MB TBC/DNR processor". I don't know if that's also full field or frame or if the TBC is any better in one than in the other. |
Buy both although buying used machines may be unfair for both since one may had more wear then the other. For exampled my SVO-2000 produces same image quality as my 2nd hand vcr that is probably 40$ or so. The SVO showed a bit more details but if you don't look close enought you'll think is the same VCR and I used s-video for the SVO and composite on the other... without APC the image on the SVO looks worse then the other that uses "perfect tape" and 19u. I'm all disappointed at all VCRs... the main reason I can't technically complain is that I bought them all used... so I still can't confirm which is better in anything except that AG with TBC fixes the distortions my SLV or SVO may show but image quality appears to be better on the SVL... I'm all mad after emptying my pockets and virtually gain no advantaged worth for all the money that I spent then what I would gain if I just used the VCRs we had at home really. I'll still need to confirm one thing... buying a DATAVIDEO1000 with my SVL may finally give me unexpected results... but is another hit and miss try worth 300$ the AG with TBC I got seems to have much head wear and little white dots appear.
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sanlyn
Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Location: NY, USA
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| yoda313 wrote: |
Hello,
| lordsmurf wrote: |
| Expect to pay $200-300 |
Oh ok...  
Not quite the price range I had in mind. For that money I'd rather buy a good svhs vcr.
I guess I'm happy with my current setup.
Thanks again
Kevin |
I just saw this (Yes, I know, it's an old post). Gosh, could it be true? Would a budget under-$200 svhs vcr be a "good" vcr ? And could it be true that this cheapo svhs would do more for my VHS captures than a good TBC? Is it possible ? ? ? ?
Naaahh!
_________________
Still Lookin'
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Don James
Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: The Jungle
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| sanlyn wrote: |
| yoda313 wrote: |
Hello,
| lordsmurf wrote: |
| Expect to pay $200-300 |
Oh ok...
Not quite the price range I had in mind. For that money I'd rather buy a good svhs vcr.
I guess I'm happy with my current setup.
Thanks again
Kevin |
I just saw this (Yes, I know, it's an old post). Gosh, could it be true? Would a budget under-$200 svhs vcr be a "good" vcr ? And could it be true that this cheapo svhs would do more for my VHS captures than a good TBC? Is it possible ? ? ? ?
Naaahh! |
Absolutely you can get a great SVHS vcr for $200, what I paid for my JVC S7600 which is a fine piece of equipment. And you really do want both, a good SVHS and a separate TBC if you want to do it right. Of course, the vcr would be used and you'd have to buy carefully on ebay (ask if they refund). And see smurf's Digitalfaq website for good vcrs.
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morbid-ee
Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Location: Estonia
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GreyDeath
Pronoob
Joined: 04 Apr 2002
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
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Ricky D,
The ES-10 you can use as a pass-through. It can do some amazing things to some old tapes. I then pass it through the TBC-1000 to get a clean signal to the ADVC-100 just in case any weirdness gets through that would make my comp drop frames.
I also use the JVC S9911U, but no longer use the built-in TBC when using the Pany as a pass-through, they don't work well together and can make the picture worse.
_________________
"*sigh* Warned you, we tried. Listen, you did not. Now SCREWED, we all will be!" ~Yoda
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snivlle
Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Location: Canada
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I have a CBT-100 TBC (Which I'm led to believe is the same as an AVT-8710) and a JVC HR-S5100U S-VHS deck. I find that on some tapes (mostly 1st gen or greater) that the 'hockey stick' effect becomes an issue. If I don't use the TBC unit, then the tape jitter is quite evident, but no 'hockey stick' effect along the top of the frame. (tearing, whatever you want to call the anomaly. *smile*)
I am using a Panasonic DMR-ES20 SA DVDR with the Video Line NR turned on. It does help clean some of the VHS noise & grain, but is it compounding the 'hockey stick' problem?
Can anyone tell me what exactly the Panasonic Line NR on the DMR-ES20 is and what exactly it does? I've researched it, but Panasonic don't really tell you much. They are using the typical 'gee whiz' marketing terminology to describe it.
I would really appreciate your help.
Anther strange thing that seems to happen sometimes when transferring 1st gen (or greater) tapes is that the footage will look as though it get's 'blurry' or out of focus while the TBC is being used. The TBC is helping to straighten the picture up, but it will induce this 'blurry effect'. I've been able to minimize the effect and stabilize the picture quality by manually adjusting the tracking, but then the audio goes 'out the window'. At which time I usually have to record the audio sperately and then fuss with trying to hack n' splice and synch everything on my Video Workstation PC. Can any of you experienced folks tell me why the 'out of focus/blurry' deal happens?
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Pronounced 'Sniv-el', Not 'Sniv-i-lee'
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