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matt_c_j486
Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Location: canada
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Hi there
I was on a trip to romania this spring and I wanted to send back a dvd that I created (NTSC) for them to watch. I've been looking around and I've been seeing lots of people that are saying that most UK players support NTSC, but would anyone know how prominent NTSC compatibility is over there?? I know this is a kind of way out there question, but maybe there are some Romanians on this forum or something??
okay thanks for ANY help or input you might have!!
Matt.
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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My experience is most all of Europe is the same.
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hech54
CONFUSED
Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Location: Yank in Europe
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About 25% of the "specialty" DVD's (music, documentary) are NTSC format. I just bought a concert DVD this week....NTSC....recorded and manufactured here in Germany.
Most European DVD players are "well aware" of NTSC and will output a viewable signal from an NTSC DVD for their(our) TV's.
There are still small pockets of Secam around....but forget where they are.
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cosmin
Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Location: Toronto
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There is little NTSC compatibility in Europe; however, NTSC DVDs do work on the large majority of DVD players and TV sets. That's due to a trick called PAL-60.
An NTSC DVD is nothing but 480 scanlines per frame, 30 frames per second or 60 fields per second. PAL is 576 scanlines per frame, 25 frames per second or 50 fields per second.
BUT there is a PAL flavor called PAL-60 or PAL-M (genuinely used in Brazil, if I recall correctly) which a PAL DVD player can output if it reads an NTSC disc. If the DVD player is capable to output PAL-60 AND the TV handles PAL-60 (not just the regular PAL/BG or PAL/DK), then the NTSC DVD is showing up fine.
For the end user, this does not make any difference from handling NTSC natively (and I saw very few PAL TV sets that handle NTSC natively). It does make a difference, however, if you use NTSC VHS tapes. (A genuine NTSC signal, that is recorded on a VHS tape for instance, is more than just 480 lines/60 fps.)
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Cosmin
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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The USA is inverse, NTSC-50 output with PAL discs on NTSC players. These basically just crop/stretch to fill the screen, and then change the color/signal needs. Framerate is left alone.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com -- Help with VHS to DVD, DVD recorders, other video/photo issues.
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hech54
CONFUSED
Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Location: Yank in Europe
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| cosmin wrote: |
| There is little NTSC compatibility in Europe.. |
WHAT?
| cosmin wrote: |
| NTSC DVDs do work on the large majority of DVD players and TV sets. |
THIS is the more accurate statement.
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matt_c_j486
Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Location: canada
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Alright thanks a lot for your help guys. All I could remember about their tv and dvd player is that their tv is made by Hyundai with a SCART connection on the back, and the dvd player output was composite (Which I thought was odd... is that the norm??). Okay I might post again later with the actual DVD player maker later, would that be alright? I emailed them but they haven't got back to me yet. Thanks again!
Matt.
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cosmin
Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Location: Toronto
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| hech54 wrote: |
| cosmin wrote: |
| There is little NTSC compatibility in Europe.. |
WHAT? |
If NTSC-DVD works well on a PAL TV via the PAL-60 trick, it doesn't necessarily mean that NTSC is itself well supported.
When I say "NTSC" and nothing else, I mean the full-blown NTSC standard (carrier frequency, signal timing and shapes, luma coding, chroma coding, etc.). NTSC-DVD is just a tiny fraction of what NTSC really is: frame size, frame rate, and nothing else. It's the same with PAL, and again, PAL-DVD is stripped of all the analog details (which make the most of the "PAL standard", actually) and remains at the trivial subset composed by frame rate and size. This explains why, in spite of the fundamental differences between PAL and SECAM, PAL-DVD and SECAM-DVD are the same thing (and they're both simply called PAL-DVD). Also, in spite that PAL-60 is so different than NTSC, it has in common the frame rate/size (and no more than that!) yet NTSC-DVD plays on PAL-60 without any specially-implemented support.
And, yes, NTSC does have poor support in Europe. There are few TV sets that recognize NTSC signals: people need to specifically look for a hybrid, three-system PAL+SECAM+NTSC model when they buy a TV set, if they really need NTSC compatibility. (There were a few exceptions, such as the old Goldstars; most of the Goldstars were three-system.)
And if someone hooks an NTSC signal (e.g. the analog output of an NTSC camcorder, be it analog or DV), there are not so many chances that an European TV will recognize it. I know that about Romania, and I know that about the countries of many other European colleagues that I have here in Toronto, who failed to show their American home videos to their European families...
But, hech54, I would be curious to find out if NTSC is really well supported in your country, and it's not just the NTSC-DVD simplification.
By the way: if NTSC is not-so-well supported in Europe, PAL and SECAM have virtually no support in North America!
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Cosmin
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cosmin
Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2002
Location: Toronto
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| lordsmurf wrote: |
| The USA is inverse, NTSC-50 output with PAL discs on NTSC players. These basically just crop/stretch to fill the screen, and then change the color/signal needs. Framerate is left alone. |
That's what should be, in theory. However, while there is a well-specified PAL-M/PAL-60 standard (and actually used in some countries), there is no NTSC-50 "standard". I cannot set up my DVD player to output an NTSC-50 signal, and I wonder how many DVD players can do that. Instead, it is the DVD player who does the job of converting 50fps-to-60fps and downsizing 576lines-to-480lines (my Panasonic RV-32 only does the former, actually; the picture is distorted as it's too tall, and the top and the bottom margins are getting out of the screen). My TV, or my TV capture card, get a genuine NTSC signal.
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Cosmin
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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The players do not convert framerates. It is left alone.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com -- Help with VHS to DVD, DVD recorders, other video/photo issues.
NoMoreCoasters.com -- How to avoid bad burns, how to find the best blank DVDs.
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Gregg
Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Miami, FL
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The bottom line is there's no problem at all playing NTSC DVDs in Europe because virtually all their video equipment can handle NTSC.
Enjoy!
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hech54
CONFUSED
Joined: 26 Jul 2001
Location: Yank in Europe
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| cosmin wrote: |
| hech54 wrote: |
| cosmin wrote: |
| There is little NTSC compatibility in Europe.. |
WHAT? |
But, hech54, I would be curious to find out if NTSC is really well supported in your country, and it's not just the NTSC-DVD simplification.
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Born and raised in America.
Have lived in Germany for over two years now.
I have friends and family all over the world....and since the majority of the world is PAL and not NTSC....I can safely tell you without playing with words.....that Europe is THE most NTSC Friendly place on earth.....and that includes VHS tapes as well.
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