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seekninfo
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Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Post Posted: Oct 30, 2004 22:39 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
gshelley61,

Thanks for such an article. I am really interested in converting my laserdisc collection to DVD for fear that my current Lasedisc player would breakdown and would neither be able to fix it nor acquire a new one. You have shown how your vcr hooks up through the detailer to the TBC\Proc Amp to the DVD recorder. Now how do you have your hook up to capture from a laserdisc

Also what is the difference between Sima SCC Pro Color Corrector and Sima SCC 2 if any?

Can these detailers and TBC\Proc Amps be used when capturing MPEG-2 to hard disc using either a PCI or USB-2 hardware encoders?

Thanks for such a much needed info.
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer


Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
Post Posted: Oct 30, 2004 23:24 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
gshelley61 wrote:
MovieMan000 wrote:
Has anyone had the experience with the BVP-4, that even with the Resolution Boost turned all the way down, the signal is still slightly enhanced and sometimes it is derading to the source?

Richard


lordsmurf uses his very frequently... he probably has the most experience with this unit.


On MIN, it really does nothing.

The unit does slightly (VERY slightly, almost unnoticeable) alter properties of the video (color and luminance mostly), even when everything is "off", but if you need everything off, bypass the unit (don't use it!).

Fine piece of equipment.
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digitalFAQ.com Guides for video capturing, restoring, authoring, burning. ATI AIW help.
NoMoreCoasters.com How to avoid burning bad discs. Blank media FAQ.

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Oct 30, 2004 23:47 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
seekninfo wrote:
gshelley61,

Thanks for such an article. I am really interested in converting my laserdisc collection to DVD for fear that my current Lasedisc player would breakdown and would neither be able to fix it nor acquire a new one. You have shown how your vcr hooks up through the detailer to the TBC\Proc Amp to the DVD recorder. Now how do you have your hook up to capture from a laserdisc

Also what is the difference between Sima SCC Pro Color Corrector and Sima SCC 2 if any?

Can these detailers and TBC\Proc Amps be used when capturing MPEG-2 to hard disc using either a PCI or USB-2 hardware encoders?

Thanks for such a much needed info.


I capture laserdisc quite a bit. My current setup is the Pioneer CLD-D704 LD player ---> Leitch VPA 331N Proc Amp ---> Vidicraft Detailer III ---> JVC DR-M10S DVD recorder. Subject to change. tongue.gif

I've also got a Studio 1 (Sign Video) DR-1000 Image Enhancer which is superb, and now have a Studio 1 Dual Proc Amp on the way... this might be "it", I hope!

Anyway, you could certainly do the same thing (use video processors) with a hardware encoder instead of a DVD recorder.

The Sima SCC-2 has digital adjustments and a wireless remote control. I don't know if it performs any better than the SCC.

Oh, and thanks for the thanks. I have more to post regarding TBC's and other things, but I have been working more than usual and haven't had a chance to sit down and do it.

trock
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 06:50 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
My BVP-4 does alter the signal in its "flat" mode and I have to turn the knobs away from their recommended "0" settings to get an input and output that look the same.

In terms of results I prefer the Studio 1/SignVideo Proc Amp (and it has a true bypass switch). I usually try the BVP-4 first but so far have always ended up using the SignVideo instead.

spiderman2k1
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Joined: 27 May 2001
Location: SPACE
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 09:48 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
:gshelley61" and "qlizard" and "trock" The Box you have played with to fix picture problems do you know if you still have Closed Caption Subtiltes. I have the Sima Video Copymaster and Facetvideo box and both rip the closed captins out.

seekninfo
Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 13:27 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
gshelley61,

Thanks for the reply. I have another question please...Do you have any video/audio synch problems when you capture LD direvtly to mpeg-2? I have read in quite a few places about this. If you do, how do you solve this problem?

Once again, thanks for the reply....You are the bomb!!!!
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tonyp2
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Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Location: United States
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 13:30 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
[quote="gshelley61"]That Prime Image unit is indeed a nice TBC.quote]

gshelley61, how would you compare the Prime Image C-Sync to the Datavideo TBC-1000? Are they comparable? Are they both Full Field (or is it Full Frame?) TBCs?

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 14:06 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
spiderman2k1 wrote:
:gshelley61" and "qlizard" and "trock" The Box you have played with to fix picture problems do you know if you still have Closed Caption Subtiltes. I have the Sima Video Copymaster and Facetvideo box and both rip the closed captins out.


I do not know. However, the Studio 1/Sign Video Proc Amp and DR-1000, Vidicraft Detailers and Proc Amp, the Laird VC2000, the Knox K700 and most other processors don't mess with the sync signal (the Sima automatically "restores" the sync, which is how it defeats some types of copy protection and is maybe why the closed captioning signal is destroyed). Anybody know for sure?

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 14:08 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
seekninfo wrote:
gshelley61,

Thanks for the reply. I have another question please...Do you have any video/audio synch problems when you capture LD direvtly to mpeg-2? I have read in quite a few places about this. If you do, how do you solve this problem?

Once again, thanks for the reply....You are the bomb!!!!


No A/V sync problems at all with the DVD recorder. smile.gif

I can't comment on hardware encoding boxes that stream MPEG2 into your computer, though. Haven't tried one of those.

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 14:18 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
[quote="tonyp2"]
gshelley61 wrote:
That Prime Image unit is indeed a nice TBC.quote]

gshelley61, how would you compare the Prime Image C-Sync to the Datavideo TBC-1000? Are they comparable? Are they both Full Field (or is it Full Frame?) TBCs?


The Prime Image C-Sync is a basic professional broadcast full frame TBC/Frame Sync that includes proc amp (picture control) adjustments. The TBC-1000 is a "prosumer" full frame TBC that does not have any picture controls. The AV Tools AVT-8710 is a small size consumer full frame TBC that does have picture controls. All three have both composite and s-video I/O's. I personally have not tried out any of them, but all three units receive high praise from those who own them. Prime Image has an excellent reputation in the pro video world, and lots of people on this site really like the TBC-1000 and the AVT-8710.

tonyp2
Member


Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Location: United States
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 15:33 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Thanks. I don't suppse you'd have any bits of knowledge about the old Nova modular system? IIRC there was a C-4 chassis that could hold a number of cards of various types (TBC, BB gnerators, etc..). I wonder how their old card based TBC holds up in the world of classic analog TBCs.

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 20:28 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
tonyp2 wrote:
Thanks. I don't suppse you'd have any bits of knowledge about the old Nova modular system? IIRC there was a C-4 chassis that could hold a number of cards of various types (TBC, BB gnerators, etc..). I wonder how their old card based TBC holds up in the world of classic analog TBCs.


I don't know too much about those. The pro TBC's that seem to command the highest prices on eBay are the more recent units from DPS/Leitch, Hotronic, For-A, and Prime Image.

tonyp2
Member


Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Location: United States
Post Posted: Oct 31, 2004 20:58 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Well, I didn't get that one. Googling on Nova yielded mixed opinions (but not many of these). It suggests Nova was not widely used, and one owner did complain about ragged edges along high contrast black / white transitions. So maybe it's no great loss.

seekninfo
Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2004 14:55 Posts View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
gshelle61
What is the difference between detailers and image enhancers and does Laird VC2000 have the same function as Vidicraft detaler III?
_________________
If you do not learn from someone's knowledge and experience, then you are doing it the hard way

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2004 14:59 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
seekninfo wrote:
gshelle61
What is the difference between detailers and image enhancers and does Laird VC2000 have the same function as Vidicraft detaler III?


"Detailers" and "Image Enhancers" perform the same basic function. The enhancer (sharpener) in the Laird VC2000 is inferior to the Vidicraft units. The Laird is a pretty decent proc amp, though.

MovieMan000
Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2004 18:16 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I also now prefer going through the Sign Video proc amp instead of the Elite...I think the Elite is useful for poor footage only really...Fine equipment yes, but overkill for most, and some users could drive the signal out of spec way too easy with the range of the controls...

lordsmurf
Video Restorer


Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2004 18:25 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
MovieMan000 wrote:
I also now prefer going through the Sign Video proc amp instead of the Elite...I think the Elite is useful for poor footage only really...Fine equipment yes, but overkill for most, and some users could drive the signal out of spec way too easy with the range of the controls...


Pretty much, yeah.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com Guides for video capturing, restoring, authoring, burning. ATI AIW help.
NoMoreCoasters.com How to avoid burning bad discs. Blank media FAQ.

tonyp2
Member


Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Location: United States
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2004 19:49 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
[gshelley61 wrote] I have a Nova 700S on the way, so I'll give a report on that one when it gets here.

gshelley61, is the Nova 700S a more recent unit than the card-based Novatrol system? Also, does the 700S require an external sync?

(Sorry for the odd quoting, but for some reason the quote function decided not to work for me today.)

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2004 20:14 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I got the 700S and discovered it apparently does require external sync (I couldn't get the picture to stabilize). Live and learn. I think the Novatrol system is newer.

tonyp2
Member


Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Location: United States
Post Posted: Nov 01, 2004 21:22 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I just missed getting a sweet (looking) Novatrol system on eBay yesterday. My timing was off; it went for only $138. TBC card, BB generator card, card frame and Novatrol 2 front control panel. I'm still kicking myself. The only consolation I have is that I ran across a post on Google suggesting the Nova TBC does not do the best job on high contast transitions (apparently turns them a little raggedy).

When you get right down to it, apart from image control (hue, sat, etc) what do these very expensive TBCs do that something like a TBC-1000 can't? Is the fundamental TBC capability so much better? I ask because I'm thinking of just dealing with reality (money) and getting a TBC-1000, and using my capture card's software to make the hue, sat, adjustments before capture.

Maybe get a SCC-2 to handle the video enhancement / restoration function. So much for saving money.

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Nov 02, 2004 04:59 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
The pro units are super heavy duty... designed and built to run continuously for many, many thousands of hours without going out of spec, and to be easily repaired (hence the circuit module cards in the more expensive models). Some pro broadcast gear is more sturdy and expensive (Leitch/DPS), and some brands are value oriented and a bit more lightweight in design (Hotronic).

Some consumer units may certainly perform just as well, but are in a light duty form factor. Look at the Sign Video and Vidicraft processors... they easily rival broadcast gear image quality without the high cost. Lots of people like the AV Tools AVT-8710 TBC, and it does have picture controls (the TBC-1000 does not).

pluche
Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: antwerp - belgium
Post Posted: Nov 02, 2004 05:24 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
I have a TBC-1000 (Datavideo): first thing I did was to replace the external power source by a better one and that can handle higher amperage; the one supplied with the TBC-1000 is borderline, especially when you copy Macrovision protected tapes
secondly: when I work on a long job - I put a small ventilator blowing over the equipment

Northpole
Member


Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Location: Norway
Post Posted: Nov 02, 2004 07:18 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Very interesting thread.

Personally, I think you have to combine different gems in a chain if you really have bad, bad sources. Several of my oldest videos (from mid-70ies) was greatly improved by running this chain:

PhilipsVCR7700TBC >> TBC1000 >> ACEEnhancer >> ADVC300 >> PC w/Picture Controller.

After several hours of testing where to adjust what this chain is pretty strong.

I have read very little about this gem (the ACE) on this site, but can assure you that it works wonders !!!!

If you're interested in more details - here's the company link:

http://www.gthelectronics.com/controlc.htm

The others in the chain (TBC1000 and ADVC300) is well know and evaluated, and there is plenty of good VCR recommendations, but I have not seen any review yet on the ACE.

Anybody else then me that go it out there ??

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Nov 02, 2004 08:44 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
That ACE unit looks very interesting... They run 300 British pounds - that's about $550 US. Not a bad deal if it is a high quality unit...

Do you think it would work here in North America (power, connections, etc.)?

Edit: I just noticed they make a NTSC version, too.

tonyp2
Member


Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Location: United States
Post Posted: Nov 02, 2004 18:40 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Northpole, why do you use a TBC1000 if the ACE lists itself as being a Time Base Corrector? (amongst its other functions)

gshelley61
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Location: USA
Post Posted: Nov 04, 2004 08:12 Posts Comp View users profile Send private message Reply with quote
Just got my Studio 1 (SignVideo) Dual Proc Amp yesterday... like the DR-1000 and the earlier Vidicraft processers, this box passes through a very accurate and clean video signal. It works great with the DR-1000 Image Enhancer. The dual purpose Luminance/Black Level LED meters work very well and are designed to allow the user to set the black exactly at 7.5 IRE. There are also Clip indicators for luminance and black level. The meters are even more useful and accurate than the VU style meter on the older Vidicraft Proc Amp. Plus, these units have both composite and s-video inputs and outputs. The Dual Proc Amp literally has two separate units in one box. I'm running one composite, and one s-video.

One small annoyance... the Black Level ad