Hardware Video Processors and Filters

Mysticav · Member Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Location: Tijuana, México.

Thanks for your reply:

I have a few questions left:

1.- For cutting and joining, you can do it, without re-encoding. But, that menas that for full fancy edition, you must do it .AVI uncompressed, for best results ?

2.- I dont have miniDV camcorder nor 8mm, not yet, depends.
Do I have to buy a miniDV camcorder and a Hi8 camcorder to output the video ?
is there a miniDV player (no cam) or a 8mm player (no cam) just for output work ?
Does a Hi8 can play old 8mm ?

Please comment...

Thanks.
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gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

Mysticav · Member Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Location: Tijuana, México.

SO, everything is clear...

Finally, I will buy separately, as you say the following:

JVC DRM-10SL
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw= ... sku=317865

and

JVC HR-S9911U
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL026935&pathId=49

And, the ADVC-100 will be useless if I can use, the minDV pass trough, am I correct ?

Thanks for your advice !!
_________________
"No, I Never feel anger for anybody. No human being can do such an important thing to make me feel anger."

Don Juan Matus.

gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

Yes, many are perfectly happy with the DV pass-through they get from MiniDV (and Digital8) camcorders. I don't know if the Canopus performs that function any better or not. On the JVC DR-M10 recorder, if you are concerned about the "loading" thing, the new replacement models will be out in a month or two.

http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=451&pageID=1

Mysticav · Member Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Location: Tijuana, México.

Well, I was undecided to buy a phillips or the JVC But because of to many concerns about the "louding" problem, I bought the phillips DVR615. Its seems to work perfectly. Doesnt have HD, but I dont find much use to have a DDR Rec. with HD, (in my situation).

What I need to decide is to buy a camcorder with "DV pass through feature" or to buy a conventional dV CAMCORDER, and also buy the ADVC-100.

What do you recommend me ?

In case you tell me to go for the DV camera with "pass through feature"... I have not found any camera with this.. I went to Bestbuy, they said dont have, But the guys looked I little ignorant about the topic. I guess they were newbies

. So, any branch, model. Pleae mention...

Thanks !!
_________________
"No, I Never feel anger for anybody. No human being can do such an important thing to make me feel anger."

Don Juan Matus.

gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

Most MiniDV camcorders (except perhaps entry-level units) have the analog-to-DV pass through feature. Don't count on Best Buy employess to know anything. Do some research online and you should be able to figure out which models have the feature. Sony units with this feature include the DCR-HC42, DCR-HC90, DCR-PC55, DCR-PC350, DCR-PC1000, DCR-HC1000, and the DCR-VX2100.

Mysticav · Member Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Location: Tijuana, México.

Perfect. So, About the camcorder VS. ADVC ?? should I use the pass through feature from the camcorder or I buy the ADVC ?? in terms of quality, durability, profesionism, etc. what do you recommend ?
Is it exactly the same thing ?
_________________
"No, I Never feel anger for anybody. No human being can do such an important thing to make me feel anger."

Don Juan Matus.

gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

I have not used a Canopus DV converter, so I can't say.

DVWannaB · Member Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Location: United States

Mysticav · Member Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Location: Tijuana, México.

Great ! so, I will go fot the camcorder. Thanks,
_________________
"No, I Never feel anger for anybody. No human being can do such an important thing to make me feel anger."

Don Juan Matus.

Marvingj · Posted: Mar 11, 2005 11:16

Are there any Mini Dv Camcorder that have Image Enhancers?

swiego · Member Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Location: United States

gshelly61:

I just wanted to say 'thank you' for dogging this subject for so long. I've read this entire thread along with some other related ones that you steered, and I could not have hoped for a better resource on the good/bad/ugly of hardware image manglers. Granted it hasn't made any decision easier, but I do feel like I have a lot more insight into the possibilities.

Thanks!

swiego

lordsmurf · Posted: Mar 19, 2005 09:06

Here's something interesting:
http://www.darvision.com/mfiltersa/index.shtml

It may just be the kind of standalone version of the filters found inside the JVC (TBC/DNR).
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Mr. Budwar · Member Joined: 21 Oct 2004

Since gshelley61 couldn't give you much about XV-C900 I will fill in.
The XV-C900 was sony top model of video corrector - they call it Video Multi Corrector. It cost just below $1000.
It is not only corrector but it has also wipes and fades which I will not go to since that is today mostly irrelevant.
It uses two joystick controllers for color compensation one for black and the other for white ballances together with regulated black and white clip. It has Hue and Color adjustment, Gamma Compensation and Chroma NR.

Now the unit is not just some integrated circuit packed into a plastic box. It is large and quite heavy. Unlike older models, this works fully with S-Video.
I would say from my experience the C900 is one of a hell processor. It may not be exactly for damaged tapes, rather for color correcting good footage. But it does the job very well. I have few digital correctors and equalizers such as Video Equalizer from Videonics and I would say the VE is almost never produces better output than input.
On C900 with the black and white ballance you can really change the picture. You can for example warm the picture, but still have whites white. You can also spice up the images where you for example correct black toward blues and whites towards red etc.
That's not all, there is black and white clip. This makes the whole range of manipulation even more interesting. Let's say you want correct the picture on lower midtones and so shift the black joystick to warmth. Of course, while the whites stay white, the dark black changes to redish cast. But you don't want that so turn the black clip level up. this will pull blacks back to pitch black and gradually change lower blacks toward warmth. Same with whites but from other side and since you have two joysticks for color you can separately control color from whites! This way you can really compensate the picture and make it warmer or cooler at will without actually introducing any ugly color cast to blacks and whites. Or simply make it more colorfull - warmth to land area and cool bright sky.
The Color (Saturation) works also exeptionally well. A normally if you oversaturate the image degrades, colors start leaking etc. The C900 does not exhibit such effect in normal range. You can up saturation bit, pull blacks and whites and kick the mids to warmth. Then you can compensate Gamma if the camera over/underexposed. Your normally dull miniDV picture will get a look of a quite serious production. Switch split screen and the difference is just amazing.
Other functions on C900 are less of importance. Things like wipes etc..

But of course before somebody start typing in frenzy, all this is possible on computer of course. (Not that many people do color correct each scene, but of course a good color correction is essential toolbox). I am just pointing the C900 here because of the whole topic. Lot of old equipment can be still reused in digital era and the benefit is that it is realtime. So instead of just sucking your miniDV tape to your new DVR directly you may consider simillar setup through a quality color corrector and I guarantee the result is worth that.
But again, not all corrector seems to be the same - like the digital corrector Videonics VE - I would say it is essentially waste of money (mine cost $20) because what you do is not correct image but apply a color cast.
A normal price for C900 today is between $100 to $150
I hope this will be useful.

KenJ57 · Member Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Location: Belfair, WA USA

I am using the JVC HR-S7800U VCR with DigiPure and capturing through a DAC-100 A/D converter. Outstanding detail but picks up video noise. My edited tapes and DVDs looked 'garish'. I turned off the 'Digital R3' feature, which is edge enhancement, and my target tapes and DVDs look much better. Picture control is set to AUTO. Don't understand the need for sharpening the video before capture since the Digital R3 does this and causes decreased quality. Comments?

gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

The Digital R3 edge enhancement is way too harsh. Usually, I set my JVC VCR's to "Edit" picture mode (not "Auto"), turn off the R3, and turn on the TBC/DNR. I use a SignVideo DR-1000 Image Enhancer to tweak the sharpness and detail. It does a much better job in this area and is totally variable... so you can use a little or lots of sharpening depending on the specific tape.

KenJ57 · Member Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Location: Belfair, WA USA

Thanks for the informative reply. I have a related question which I will have to set up.

For many years I have been waiting for improved video connections for better picture quality. Now, S-Video is very common and I can see the improvement. My new 14" Sharp TV I use for editing even has COMPONENT video connections! The chief improvement I can see is a dramatic reduction in video noise. Before SDI became widely available, production studios used component video to maintain video quality -- and now we have it in the home! So my question is -- and please forgive the shouting --

WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE USE A PROCAMP ON COMPOSITE VIDEO?

Sorry. But it defies logic. Take this sow's ear and make a purse. The DR-1000 doesn't have this limitation, of course. It's out of my budget range however.

gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

KenJ57 · Member Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Location: Belfair, WA USA

Ah, yes. Laserdisk. I haven't seen one of those in twenty years!

Well, I went to storage and dusted off a couple of old-timers. I have a Videcraft Detailer and a Radio Shack 'Super Video Processor'. Both composite video only. The Detailer doesn't have II or III after the name, so I assume it must be an 'I' version. The RS unit looks to have all the features of a ProcAmp including a variable split screen. I wonder who might have made it for them. They worked very well the last time I used them, but -- composite video -- and I need S-Video since I work from good quality analog S-VHS sources. Would anyone like to comment on the usefulness of these devices? I may want to pass them along to, perhaps, a Laserdisk owner.

-- Ken

gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

The Vidicraft Detailers are excellent, high quality units. I don't have any experience with the Radio Shack piece.

seekninfo · Member Joined: 14 Jan 2004

To those in the know and with experience.... How does the Vidicrsaft II detailer compare with Studio 1 (Sign Video) DR-1000 Image Enhancer?. I currently have the former but am considering buying the latter for Laser discs transfer and some VHS tapes that I have from the late 80's.

Any comments and suggestions are welcome and would be appreciated
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gshelley61 · Frequent Flyer Joined: 19 May 2004 Location: USA

Laserdisc is a composite video source, so the Detailer II should be fine. I use a Detailer III on my LD conversions. For s-video sources, the DR-1000 Image Enhancer is the best choice. The Vidicraft Detailers are a bit more "powerful"... don't over-do the sharpening.

KenJ57 · Member Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Location: Belfair, WA USA

Wondering if -- I can get playback enhancement of my Hi-8 camcorder signal by running it through the HR-S7800U? Can I use it in-line -- not re-recording -- to use the noise reduction processing and so-on?

lordsmurf · Posted: May 11, 2005 02:38

KenJ57 · Member Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Location: Belfair, WA USA

OK, thanks. Thought I might be able to harness another external tool for shaping up video before the capture card. The camcorder is a Sony TRV-72 which has TBC and DNR circuits built-in -- so it does a respectable job. But the picture noise in low light can be distracting. I guess it will take an overnight session with a good filter (I use MSU Denoiser) to make it 'smooth'.