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Bizuser
Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
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| Redd wrote: |
| I insert my company logo in the lower right hand corner of the picture for the full length of the movie. |
I hate such overlays ... detracts from the content. If I were contracting to have my wedding filmed, I'd certainly insist that this would not be done.
When I first saw this post, I did share the reaction of most others (fell off my chair laughing ...). But, I can imagine, if you spend big bucks on equipment and produce a professional DVD, you have a right to a fair return on your investment. The movie studios already made big bucks on the orig. movie, and will make big bucks on the DVD no matter how many people copy it, but if you buy thousands of dollars worth of equipment and spend a saturday at someone else's wedding, then spend several days editing and producing the product, you 'deserve' to get more than $100 for your efforts.
I've been playing around with this 'DVD backup' process for years now, partly because it's technically interesting/challenging, but mainly because I get DVDs from Europe that I cannot buy here in the US, and needed to figure a way to extract/convert to NTSC/disable region code so I could watch on my regular US player (my PAL/NTSC DVD player screws up on PAL 16:9, so I had to resort to this method).
Anyway, the bottom line is, if the original material is priced right, there really is no incentive 'for the average Joe' to copy in the first place. That seems to be the answer here. I go through this tedious process so I can watch the UK DVDs, but do I do it for the average disney movie ...? NO WAY! I buy maybe 2, 3 DVDs a week when I pass by Costco. $10 for some old movie released on DVD, $15 for a 'first run' movie. Bargain price compared to spending the time 'backing up'. I like having the 'case', the liner notes, the screen-printed DVD, etc. If I were a student on a tight budget, maybe I'd be more motivated to 'rip' them, but - a student on a tight budget wouldn't buy the original anyway so nothing really lost.
So why not package your service accordingly. Don't try to sell each DVD for $100, then get miffed when no one buys the second copy. Package the service such that you offer a minimum of, say, 20 copies for $200, or whatever. Or charge a high fee for simply 'filming', regardless of copies sold, then sell copies at $10 each. I'm a very technical person and love the challenge of copying DVDs, but if I can buy an original for $10 I'm not going to spend the time trying to copy.
Also based on my experience, if the 'total package' is appealing and sophisticated, the changes of it being copied are much smaller. If you screen-print the disk, have a professional looking sleeve insert, use features that are supported but not easy to copy, etc, then people are not going to want to go to the trouble of stealing your work.
So having said all this, what IS the pricing approach for a typical wedding? How much does a videographer charge for showing up and filming, and how much can one sell a finished DVD for? Is there a lot of competition such that, if you tried some of the tactics above, you'd lose the contract?
Finally, I'd say you should make sure the menus, etc, are good. The one other reason I backup my DVDs is so that I can have ultra-simple menus. I can't stand DVDs where you have to wade through multiple intro clips and menus to get to the 'main movie'. I've gone to the trouble of making a backup just so I can cut to the movie without the delay. The original movie sits on my shelf (I suppose I could just rip and defeat the prohibited User Op's!).
One other thought ... will you (the videographer) be in business 20 years from now, and if not, how does the 'happy couple' use their wedding DVD themselves when the DVD is scratched, and/or is incompatible with current technology? If they can simply access the Video data on the disks, they can probably convert to new standards but if you succeeded in copy protecting the work, they are screwed. Somehow or other, the 'rights' to the material 'has' to transfer to the person paying for the service, and you have to price your service accordingly. There will always be enough copies of commercial movies in circulation to ensure no movies will be 'lost', but if 'joe videographer in the corner store' goes out of business, what happens to the material?
So I reluctantly agree that there is some validity to this topic, but the answer does not lie in copy protection. The answer has to be in pricing/packaging the service.
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Mr. Budwar
Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2004
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If you create decent product with a fair price, that will be your best protection. Trust me it works this way even if it sounds like quote from sunday busines school.
Most movies get copied because people feel the product is simply not worth the money.
A Grandma may be not able to go around CSS protection, but her 8 years old grandson can with finger in nose.
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Gurm
Banned
Joined: 19 May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
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Let me provide a quick example.
My sister-in-law paid to have digital photos taken of her wedding.
She received a CD, at a REASONABLE COST, with all the pictures.
She requested additional CD's, and was given what she felt was a HIGHLY UNREASONABLE COST.
So she copied the disc.
Is that ethical? Moral? Don't know. But she isn't made of money, and to charge DOUBLE for a second copy of the disc is rude bordering on criminal.
I understand that wedding photographers need to make money, but they've been practicing pretty pathetic tactics for years now - keeping negatives, charging exorbitantly for duplicate prints, etc.
I'm sure someone will come in and argue that it's necessary for them to do so in order to stay in business. To this I say - find an alternate pricing structure. Sell them the negatives for a fair price, or SOMETHING.
But to answer the original poster...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
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Bubblevision
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Phuket, Thailand
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All you can really do to protect yourself is put a watermark through it and make sure you sell a lot yourself as well as the pirates.
I'm also working on a "hall of shame" of people who use my photos without permission, and I will no doubt include in it people I know who rip off my DVD's.
_________________
Bubble Vision underwater video
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pantangs
Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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hi i did a trick a while back to stop my freinds from copying my dvd movies and other dvd stuff.When i recorded them i added a third audio track.My system will bypass it as instructed while freinds dont have an idea whats going on.They wont record it because it has a whole different sound than the real audio shoud be.Musicians do this all the time in there work.After taking months and all my time why should i let freinds copy for free.
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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| Bjs wrote: |
| bang a pin hole that gose right through the media |
Not trying to be mean, but...
By far one of the dumbest things I've heard to date. The very instant oxygen penetrates the dye layer, the entire disc is ruined.
Face facts, folks. There is no such thing as "homemade" protection.
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digitalFAQ.com Guides for video capturing, restoring, authoring, burning. ATI AIW help.
NoMoreCoasters.com How to avoid burning bad discs. Blank media FAQ.
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smearbrick1
Engorged Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Location: Up in yo' bitch.
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You know, one of the easiest ways to prevent people from copying your dvds is to put everything on VHS. How many people actually go through the routine of copying VHS to DVD? (I should qualify that statement with; How many average users...) Sure, the wedding video can be easily copied, but if you provided a low-grade proof of the wedding video and offered substantially upgraded DVD copies at a very reasonable cost, I think people would jump on it. Of course, I think adding copy protection, holding negatives, holding original video footage... etc obtained during something like a wedding is completely retarded.
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www.myspace.com/altonhambone
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sharktacos
Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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For what it is worth, I have worked for for the past 12 years on major films like Shrek2 and also do short films of the same quality independently that I would like to release on DVD. Lots of animators like me do this. So while I can see that no one would really care to bother copying a home video, there are cases where individual artists have a product of the same quality of any Hollywood production (after all many of us are the same people making those Hollywood films) and would therefore have just as legitimate a reason to be concerned about piracy as a big studio would. Because of that I found the condescending tone of a lot of post in this thread to be rather frustrating. The idea of a web forum is to help people, not belittle them. I am thankful that in nearly every other thread here people seem to be very helpful.
I think what would be sufficient is to simply have a way to make it a wee bit difficult to copy the DVD. So you could not simply copy it with the drag and drop method but would need to have some sort of ripping software. This would work like having a lock on a door of your house or car. Sure a professional thief could pick the lock and get in. But the locked door (or even simply a closed door) keeps the average joe honest.
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http://www.sharktacos.com/Emelia
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bugster
Moderator
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Location: UK
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| sharktacos wrote: |
I think what would be sufficient is to simply have a way to make it a wee bit difficult to copy the DVD. So you could not simply copy it with the drag and drop method but would need to have some sort of ripping software. |
There is. Its called CSS and is compatible with every DVD player ever made, if you can afford it  
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There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary...
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BJ_M
Patron
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Location: Canada
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or ARCCoS
_________________
"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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sharktacos
Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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| bugster wrote: |
| sharktacos wrote: |
I think what would be sufficient is to simply have a way to make it a wee bit difficult to copy the DVD. So you could not simply copy it with the drag and drop method but would need to have some sort of ripping software. |
There is. Its called CSS and is compatible with every DVD player ever made, if you can afford it |
Aye, there is the rub. Doesn't this cost like 15k a year or something outrageous that no indie filmaker could ever afford?
Anyone know what ARccOS costs?
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http://www.sharktacos.com/Emelia
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BJ_M
Patron
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Location: Canada
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CSS ? no - it is pretty cheap .. as is macrovison (real cheap) and ARccOS ... I am not allowed to give exact prices but im sure you can find them somwhere .
It is under a $1 per disk though usually .. and charged by piece and/or by title
_________________
"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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sharktacos
Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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BJ_M
Patron
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Location: Canada
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we never had to pay that, and ive made many commercial dvds with CSS -- the duplicator does though - as does a manuf. needing to play it .
i think you got the two mixed up ..
I know what we pay
_________________
"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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jkdawg
Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
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what about writing bad tracks to a DVD for the computer to stall on but the DVD player to keep going? One bad burn I had would copy all files but one, thats where I got the idea.
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rijir2001
Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Location: United States
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I have a DVD+R of a concert video someone made with a DVD recorder. It plays fine on both my PC and standalone players. Yet I cannot copy it. I have tried numerous programs but they all seem to crash or report corrupt files on the disc.
Not sure but it seems to be copy proof by mistake.
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thecoalman
Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
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jkdawg
Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
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I tried that, but even it failed. I filmed an event for someone and he wanted 50 DVDs. After the 50, he wanted 30 more, but I forgot to make an archive copy. I borrowed a DVD to copy, but it wouldn't read, even with ISOBuster.
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kurbads
Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Location: Latvia
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Try reducing read spead. Reading disk at normal spead (e.g. 12x) heats it up especially if there is paper label glued on it! Paper label is good copy protection. 
You can watch it because you do it at <1x! If it does not work keep the disk into 96% alcohol for 10 minutes and remove the label.
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Cann't tell it's possible don't tell anything.
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Nelson37
Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2001
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Copy impossible, no. Copy difficult and unlikely, yes. Posted this long ago but someone had a hissy fit and locked the thread.
Break your video into a number of different segments, say 10. Join the sections out of order. Create a couple segments of scrambled video and put them in the beginning.
Create chapter points for each segment, and a playlist which is in correct order, and skips the scrambled segments.
Now create a series of menus, again 10 would be a good number. Each menu consisting of 3 to 5 segments.
For each menu segment, use hidden buttons to require a code number. One menu for each digit needed, ie less than 1000 disks, 3 menus, less than 10,000, four, etc.
Menu one all digits go to menu 2. Menu 2 only one digit advances correctly. Menu 3 all digits OK, menu 4 only 1 correct digit. So for menu set "A", both "1 4 7 2" and "9 4 6 2" would produce correct playback. Also put a "killer digit" on each menu section, for example pressing "8" would take you directly to a "you are an evil pirate" screen. This would inhibit random attempts at breaking the code. The jump to this screen should only occur after pressing the last digit.
So now you have made 10 different menus, with an apparrent 1,000 to 10,000 valid code numbers. Produce your disks in series, 100 with menu "A", 100 with menu "B", etc. Menu "A" and "B" each require different code numbers, obviously.
Make a show of recording each purchaser's name, address, phone number, and code number. Easy if you are mailing the disk. Make a show of informing them that should an illegal copy be discovered with their unique code number, they would be liable for the $15,000 fine or whatever the current FBI fine amount is.
A simple copy would appear to carry the original purchaser's unique code and present a significant risk to them. A vob rip would produce apparrently scrambled video, even forwarding past the scramble the video would play out of order. It would require something like IfoEdit to determine the correct playlist. That would probably keep about 80% of members here, and perhaps 99% of the general public, from breaking it.
The fear of the code being traced back would inhibit a majority of the general public from simple copying.
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Cobra
Moderator
Joined: 06 May 2002
Location: UK
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This thread originally turned into a big legal debate, and had to be locked (this was ages ago). It has been suggested that I clean it up and re-open it, which is what I've done.
Please avoid the legal stuff from now on!
Many thanks,
Cobra
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Forum Rules :: PM me with any questions/problems/suggestions!
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sdsumike619
Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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There isn't a way to prevent your DVD from being copied. Think about it. Big Hollywood production studios with millions of dollars and the best equipment/technology money can be can't protect their DVDs from being copied so what makes you think that some home remedy will work? I often browse the world of pirated stuff on the internet just to make sure dvds we produce aren't being copied. That's all you can really do and hope to never find out they are..
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M-323
Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Canada
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Yep, I made a professional video. At one point it was avaialble on over 2000 websites!
did I get rich from the program? not at all. some have pirated $100M movies If someone wants your program badly enough, they will figure out a way.
question is, is it worth the time and effort?
I made a bit of money from my video but certianly, not royalties from every single dude out there selling my video.
Ha! Just read Nelson from above - he now works for the CIA crackin codes - I heard hes working on DaVinci's
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best, M/
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mogoyon
Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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I think I have a good way to do. One good day this idea got to my mind...
1) Prepare (author) your movie for DVD. You can create an ISO file or DVD video files (video TS folder). For a DVD5, try to stay close to 4 - 4.2GB (later will say why)
2) You will need a program to create "safes" (password protected data containers) Mine has the option to create safes in removable media, so I've done it on DVD+R.
3) Create a safe for a DVD, provide a password and copy your authored movie (ISO or video files) into the safe. The program will create some files that you will then record to a DVD. The data you created is saved in encrypted form. You can only see the data if you enter the correct password. Mine does so by asigning a device letter (Z for example) and placing your data in that device. Why the limit of 4 - 4.2GB. My encryption program has problems with storing a single file larger than that. If there are multiple files, the total size can go to 4.37GB.
4) To see the movie, you have a few options. You can use a software like Daemon tools to emulate a DVD ROM, and assign that created device (Z in my example) as a DVD ROM drive. Or you can just use the software DVD player of your choice if it does have the option to play DVD video from files.
This way you can have a DVD video protected by a password. Can it be cracked? I'm sure! But it will provide a good protection that not everyone could override. Mi encryption program has some options and indications that shows an indication of how "safe" is your password. What do you need something like that? Well, you can create your own "personal" movies and your kids will not be able to see them. I dont know why anybody has said that.
Cons: You can only see them through you PC, but you can send the video to your TV.
Hope this helps, coments are welcome.
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Cornucopia
Patently Pending
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Location: HFX, NS, CA
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