ADVC-100 vs ATI Radeon - Screenshots

Rookie64 · In training Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: USA

You can see the areas that are affected most when brought out appying effects...these for example -

ftp://members.aol.com/rk2004r/vegas-captures.jpg

notice how much red is in her forehead

Contrast is extreme as well - that's something you'll need to adjust.

ftp://members.aol.com/rk2004r/captures-star.jpg

rhegedus · Member Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Location: on the jazz

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 04:56

Rookie64 · In training Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: USA

lordsmurf · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 06:18

ronnylov · Member Joined: 29 Aug 2002 Location: Sweden

Regarding codecs, a codec is both coder and decoder so different DV codecs may decode the capture on the PC differently (you can't take any screenshot unless it is decoded). I read somewhere that for instance Canopus DV codec 1.0 has a chroma upsampling bug which can be fixed by fixbrokenchromaupsampling in avisynth. Maybe it's worth investigating?

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33526
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Ronny

trevlac · Member Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Location: U.S.

FOO · Flaccid Member Joined: 24 Mar 2003 Location: Uranus

I also read a bunch of stuff on DV codec comparisons. I remember
distinctly that the Canopus produced some filtering artifacts.
Try the Panasonic. It's supposed to be inert as far as filters go.

rhegedus · Member Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Location: on the jazz

Rookie64 · In training Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: USA

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 08:25

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 08:32

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 08:43

So I suppose, what everyone is saying is that it might be worth trying a different codec, right?
I'm getting confused.
The ADVC-100 is doing all the work itself, in converting the anaolgue feed to digital.
What I don't understand is...
....when I 'capture' to the PC, and then save the avi (without any rendering or editing), am I using a codec?
My current 'capture' software will not let me select anything other than one codec, which I'm assuming to be the MS one.
When I tried scenalzer I changed the 'capture' option to save as a canopus file type, but that's all.
I'm getting a little confused

I know that when I run an anolgue feed through my ATI the PicVideo codec is compressing the feed, and in the same way the ADVC-100 does (insofar as it's a hardware decoder and therefore has the codec in-built).
Will
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Rookie64 · In training Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Location: USA

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 08:57

I see

Will
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rhegedus · Member Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Location: on the jazz

Tempted to install a Pinnacle DC30 Plus I've got hanging around..........
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Regards,

Rob

trevlac · Member Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Location: U.S.

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 09:17

Thanks Trevor, that's just the kind of guidance I was looking for

Appreciate that man.
Will

BTW, Page ten says nothing about outputting colour bars, but I have that manual anyway so I'll check tonight.
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proxyx99 · **Banned** Joined: 22 Oct 2003 Location: Americas

Well, well. Long thread with all angles covered. I think that more cannot be done then Will Hay already did. Unless someone suggests modifying ADVC circuit board. Personaly I'm not worried about red, or green or saturation. I'm worried about white. The bleads from (mostly red but not only) affect white to that degree that the most important color in picture balancing is almost always anything but white. I don't think that this can be corrected. The only way is to modify the signal at the source or before it's dumped on the HD (like saturation and color balance directly in capture software). No DV capture allows for that to my knowledge.
Changing codecs, software etc. will not help. The pictures are bad, however nice we want to be to you. That's a fact. If I had a DV source like this I would dump it in a day. You don't spend 250 $ for a DIY "let's make a video" project that would require resoldering the circuit board, reverse engineering software and building your own codec just to be able to complete the job. Will Hay has bought highly acclaimed piece of hardware junk unable to do what it is supposed to do in a first place.
My suggestion, don't waste more of your time. Look for something that will do the job. Sell it and go for something else. These pictures look like 2nd VHS copy where color bleeds start do degrade the picture in such a way that noone and nothing will be able to clean it up.
I have DAC-100 and so fas so good, no complaints. Colors are accurate, no bleeding and white is white. DV capture's are always a bit on a "deep" side in terms of brighness but yours seem to be a notch overdone.
In my opinion there are too many flaws, no wonder that you're not happy. Let's keep in mind that you are the only one who can see the source as well. That's way you can't take it.
Try a different device. I would borrow a D8 or miniDV with analog to digital passthrough and using the same setup (except for DV thing) test your input. If the same, then suggestion about SCART may be good. If it's better, closer to the original then make an Ebay ad for your ADVC and say goodbye to it. May be a bad unit or batch. I would dump it and look for something else. Your ATI does way better job then ADVC and that's a fact.

trevlac · Member Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Location: U.S.

trevlac · Member Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Location: U.S.

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 09:36

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 09:42

Hello, and thanks

trevlac · Member Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Location: U.S.

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 09:54

Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 09:59

FulciLives · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 10:06

I said this in another thread but it seems like it needs to be here now in this thread. I have read that the Canopus DV codec is known to have "issues" including color saturation problems. Based on what I've read this appears to be an issue not so much with DV codecs in general but a problem specific to the Canopus DV codec.

Now since the ADVC-100 does the conversion to DV in hardware (in the external device) it uses the Canopus DV codec. So the error is probably being introduced there.

I can understand how it makes sense that using a different codec on the computer might affect the decoding in some way ... be it good or bad ... who knows at this point?

But the "errors" are probably due to the "source" i.e., the codec used by the Canopus ADVC-100 internally.

Now this brings us to a very interesting point. What about other such devices? Someone already mentioned in this thread and I've heard it before ... the DataVideo DAC-100 (which appears to be almost an exact clone of the ADVC-100) has better color representation. I have heard this time and time again. Why is that? My guess is that since it is NOT made by Canopus is that the DAC-100 uses a different DV codec (internally). This DV codec obviously must not have the "issues" that the ADVC-100 apparently has (Will is not the first to report that the ADVC-100 produces over-saturation especially for the color red).

So although I suppose this doesn't really help Will (sorry!) ... I think maybe we need to start looking at other options such as the DataVideo DAC-100 or the ADS Pyro A/V link (which is a similiar device that has been getting some attention as of late).

I would love to see side by side captures of the ADVC-100, DAC-100 and the Pyro A/V link ... I doubt we will find one person that has all 3 of these devices though. Perhaps someone who has a DataVideo DAC-100 can capture a PAL VHS clip then post the results ... send the tape to Will who could then capture the same segment with the ADVC-100 and post his pictures ... giving us something to compare.

The only thing that worries me about the DataVideo DAC-100 is that I've heard it cannot capture B/W whereas the Canopus ADVC-100 can (again from user reports). That seems very odd!

As for Will attempting to struggle further with the Canopus ADVC-100 ... the only thing I see left that you can do is play with some codecs on the computer and see if you can't try more than one alternative in hopes that it might make a change for the better. Otherwise I don't see much more that you can do OTHERTHAN perhaps adjusting the saturation etc. while doing the MPEG-2 conversion.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman
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Will Hay · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 10:17

Anyone know how I select a different DV codec in Pinnacle Studio 8.10?
Will
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FulciLives · Posted: Dec 12, 2003 10:19

I just mentioned that you could adjust the saturation etc. when doing your MPEG-2 encoding step but although that should help to an extent it is apparent that the "errors" are being introduced to the signal as it is being processed internaly by the ADVC-100

So now I'm thinking that what LordSmurf said might be the best solution for the Canopus ADVC-100

I'm talking about his suggestion to try an external processing box (such as the SIMA unit) which can adjust individual color saturation and contrast/brightness etc. Put this between the source and the ADVC-100 and increase the brightness ... lower the contrast ... lower the REDS and GREENS if possible etc.

Now when the ADVC-100 does the conversion it will "fix" the errors you just introduced with the SIMA (or similiar device) by doing what it does ... increasing saturation and contract and lowering the brightness.

Damn shame you have to fiddle with it in this way but that might be the best way to do it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman
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"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE