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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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Rookie64
In training
Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Location: USA
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rhegedus
Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Location: on the jazz
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| Will Hay wrote: |
| Does it have to be this hard? |
Depends if you're watching Buffy 
_________________
Regards,
Rob
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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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| Rookie64 wrote: |
You can see the areas that are affected most when brought out appying effects...these for example -
notice how much red is in her forehead
Contrast is extreme as well - that's something you'll need to adjust. |
It's a little hard to notce anything from that pic 
Oh, and Rob, I must be the only man on the planet who thinks SM Gellar is a pig
_________________
tgpo, my real dad, told me to make a maximum of 5,806 posts in one lifetime. So I have.
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Rookie64
In training
Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Location: USA
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| Will Hay wrote: |
It's a little hard to notce anything from that pic |
I'll keep trying - connection keeps timing out
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lordsmurf
Video Restorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Location: Want my advice? PM me.
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| Will Hay wrote: |
| lordsmurf wrote: |
Will, maybe there is a chance the $75 US Sima SED-EM will help you.
SED-EM just so no mistakes |
You know I'm in the UK, right? Just checked it out on google, sure looks a good idea. Will |
Yeah, that's why I said US in the amount ... whatever that is in pounds or euros or however that works these days ... it's been a bit confusing for those of us that never use it.
I believe the device is format free (NTSC/PAL) in terms of what it does.
You'd have to research it a bit. I took a gamble on the SED-CM recently for special reason, and it worked like a charm.
_________________
digitalFAQ.com -- Help with VHS to DVD, DVD recorders, other video/photo issues.
NoMoreCoasters.com -- How to avoid bad burns, how to find the best blank DVDs.
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ronnylov
Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
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Regarding codecs, a codec is both coder and decoder so different DV codecs may decode the capture on the PC differently (you can't take any screenshot unless it is decoded). I read somewhere that for instance Canopus DV codec 1.0 has a chroma upsampling bug which can be fixed by fixbrokenchromaupsampling in avisynth. Maybe it's worth investigating?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33526
_________________
Ronny
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trevlac
Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Location: U.S.
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| ronnylov wrote: |
Regarding codecs, a codec is both coder and decoder so different DV codecs may decode the capture on the PC differently (you can't take any screenshot unless it is decoded). I read somewhere that for instance Canopus DV codec 1.0 has a chroma upsampling bug which can be fixed by fixbrokenchromaupsampling in avisynth. Maybe it's worth investigating?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33526 |
This was exactly what is missing form this discussion. When your device captures it encodes in DV. When you view on the pc or encode with TMPGEnc, you are decoding it. The capture should not be a problem. The device is getting the full color info from the capture chip (this one is probably what is inside). It then drops it down by 1/2. It is the DECODE that is the challange. That is where a codec (the DV one installed and used on your machine try virtualdub to figure out which one) probably upsamples the color info so TMPGEnc can encode. It's at least worth a shot to check it out.
As far as the color bars go..... They can be used to adjust the hue/saturation/brightness (black level)/contrast (white level) of a monitor or possibly a capture card. Look on page #10 of this manual see how to output them. I'm assuming you can capture them at the same time you output them.
http://www.canopus.com/US/pdf/man-advc100.pdf
Even if you don't get this to work, Man you are gonna learn a lot. 
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FOO
Flaccid Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2003
Location: Uranus
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I also read a bunch of stuff on DV codec comparisons. I remember
distinctly that the Canopus produced some filtering artifacts.
Try the Panasonic. It's supposed to be inert as far as filters go.
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rhegedus
Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Location: on the jazz
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Rookie64
In training
Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Location: USA
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got it working that time
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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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| trevlac wrote: |
| When your device captures it encodes in DV. When you view on the pc or encode with TMPGEnc, you are decoding it. The capture should not be a problem. The device is getting the full color info from the capture chip (this one is probably what is inside). It then drops it down by 1/2. It is the DECODE that is the challange. That is where a codec (the DV one installed and used on your machine try virtualdub to figure out which one) probably upsamples the color info so TMPGEnc can encode. |
Hmm, well that's the pickle.
When I 'capture' either with the ADVC-100 or the ATI card, I can see the difference in the reds through both the preview window and by playing back the captured avi.
All before the TMPGEnc process.
So, to me at least, that would signify the problem lies with the ADVC codec, right?
Will
_________________
tgpo, my real dad, told me to make a maximum of 5,806 posts in one lifetime. So I have.
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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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| Rookie64 wrote: |
You can see the areas that are affected most when brought out appying effects...these for example -
notice how much red is in her forehead
Contrast is extreme as well - that's something you'll need to adjust.
 |
Hi pal,
Forgive my ignorance (as I know there's a useful purpose here), but what have you done and how, to demonstrate the flaws of the 'captures'?
Will
_________________
tgpo, my real dad, told me to make a maximum of 5,806 posts in one lifetime. So I have.
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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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So I suppose, what everyone is saying is that it might be worth trying a different codec, right?
I'm getting confused.
The ADVC-100 is doing all the work itself, in converting the anaolgue feed to digital.
What I don't understand is...
....when I 'capture' to the PC, and then save the avi (without any rendering or editing), am I using a codec?
My current 'capture' software will not let me select anything other than one codec, which I'm assuming to be the MS one.
When I tried scenalzer I changed the 'capture' option to save as a canopus file type, but that's all.
I'm getting a little confused 
I know that when I run an anolgue feed through my ATI the PicVideo codec is compressing the feed, and in the same way the ADVC-100 does (insofar as it's a hardware decoder and therefore has the codec in-built).
Will
_________________
tgpo, my real dad, told me to make a maximum of 5,806 posts in one lifetime. So I have.
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Rookie64
In training
Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Location: USA
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| Will Hay wrote: |
Hi pal,
Forgive my ignorance (as I know there's a useful purpose here), but what have you done and how, to demonstrate the flaws of the 'captures'?
Will |
Trying to point out that when you try to touch up the screencaps in Vegas 4.0 and Photoshop, the areas where you have too much red, shadow or contrast are enhanced rather than fixed
I don't know what the original source looks like, but I see too much red in some areas on both the ATI and Canopus screencaps.
I used gradients, adjusted the brightness and contrast levels, added seconary color, replaced your color with a tint to highlight shadows where there was too much color.
I've had similar problems with certain captures I did with my ATI card...all it took was adjusting the contrast in MMC, then I recaptured and everything was OK.
The star screencaps are just examples of ways to touch up over saturated colors.
Not sure if it's any help...but something to consider
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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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I see
Will
_________________
tgpo, my real dad, told me to make a maximum of 5,806 posts in one lifetime. So I have.
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rhegedus
Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Location: on the jazz
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Tempted to install a Pinnacle DC30 Plus I've got hanging around..........
_________________
Regards,
Rob
Last edited by rhegedus on Dec 12, 2003 09:10, edited 1 time in total
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trevlac
Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Location: U.S.
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| Will Hay wrote: |
When I 'capture' either with the ADVC-100 or the ATI card, I can see the difference in the reds through both the preview window and by playing back the captured avi.
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How do I put this ??
ADVC
1) The chip in the ADVC samples the analog signal and makes pixels with full color.
2) The ADVC codec "in the box" encodes this to DV with 1/2 the color
3) The ADVC app copies the file to your PC
4) The codec on your machine decodes the file and makes the 1/2 color full color when you preview/play back. <<=== This is the important one.
So, what is the codec on your machine? Maybe you can use This to find out. Maybe there is a better one. BTW: The Canopus 2.1 DV Codec is considered to be very good. Maybe it is not the default on your machine. I don't know. Maybe the codec has nothing to do with it.
ATI
1) The 'Theater' chip samples the signal and makes pixels with full color
2) If you choose YUY2 or some format like that, you get full color to your codec (YV12 give 1/2 color, RGB cause a conversion of color)
3) The MJPeg codec takes the YUY2 pixels and compresses/store a file
4) Most likely, the same MJPeg codec decompresses the full color when you preview/play back. No upsample needed.
Please understand. I'm a rookie. But I think I understand the basic process.
How about those color bars? If you post them, I'll give you a detailed explination of how your hue/saturation/contrast/brightness are set. This is what the other poster is pointing out by removing R/G/or B from your pictures. However, if the bars are SMPTE standard, I will use a book I have to read them and give a clear explination.
I am just learning about this color stuff, so I have a personal interest in doing the test. Maybe a pro will step in and give us some words of wisdom, where I'm all wet.
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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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Thanks Trevor, that's just the kind of guidance I was looking for
Appreciate that man.
Will
BTW, Page ten says nothing about outputting colour bars, but I have that manual anyway so I'll check tonight.
_________________
tgpo, my real dad, told me to make a maximum of 5,806 posts in one lifetime. So I have.
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proxyx99
Banned
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Location: Americas
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Well, well. Long thread with all angles covered. I think that more cannot be done then Will Hay already did. Unless someone suggests modifying ADVC circuit board. Personaly I'm not worried about red, or green or saturation. I'm worried about white. The bleads from (mostly red but not only) affect white to that degree that the most important color in picture balancing is almost always anything but white. I don't think that this can be corrected. The only way is to modify the signal at the source or before it's dumped on the HD (like saturation and color balance directly in capture software). No DV capture allows for that to my knowledge.
Changing codecs, software etc. will not help. The pictures are bad, however nice we want to be to you. That's a fact. If I had a DV source like this I would dump it in a day. You don't spend 250 $ for a DIY "let's make a video" project that would require resoldering the circuit board, reverse engineering software and building your own codec just to be able to complete the job. Will Hay has bought highly acclaimed piece of hardware junk unable to do what it is supposed to do in a first place.
My suggestion, don't waste more of your time. Look for something that will do the job. Sell it and go for something else. These pictures look like 2nd VHS copy where color bleeds start do degrade the picture in such a way that noone and nothing will be able to clean it up.
I have DAC-100 and so fas so good, no complaints. Colors are accurate, no bleeding and white is white. DV capture's are always a bit on a "deep" side in terms of brighness but yours seem to be a notch overdone.
In my opinion there are too many flaws, no wonder that you're not happy. Let's keep in mind that you are the only one who can see the source as well. That's way you can't take it.
Try a different device. I would borrow a D8 or miniDV with analog to digital passthrough and using the same setup (except for DV thing) test your input. If the same, then suggestion about SCART may be good. If it's better, closer to the original then make an Ebay ad for your ADVC and say goodbye to it. May be a bad unit or batch. I would dump it and look for something else. Your ATI does way better job then ADVC and that's a fact.
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trevlac
Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Location: U.S.
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| Will Hay wrote: |
1) The ADVC-100 is doing all the work itself, in converting the anaolgue feed to digital.
2) ....when I 'capture' to the PC, and then save the avi (without any rendering or editing), am I using a codec?
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1) Yes
2) No (actually, file headers may be created, however it is my understanding that the data is not re-compressed. This is a copy process.)
3) When you view / play back / encode to mpeg2 a DV codec decodes the file.
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trevlac
Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Location: U.S.
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| Will Hay wrote: |
| BTW, Page ten says nothing about outputting colour bars, but I have that manual anyway so I'll check tonight. |
Page 16 if you follow what acrobat tells you. Page 10 if you look at what is printed on the page.
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Will Hay
Lest we forget
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: Buggleskelly Railway St.
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