Need advice on computer problem...

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

My son's computer is having problems. Well, it's really only got one problem, it won't start. Here is what happens: if I unplug the power cord, and let it sit for a minute, then plug it back in, it will start to start (the light on the front will flash, and I can hear the drive/fans starting to spin), then it will just go dead. If I try to start it again, nothing happens, unless I unplug the power cord, let it sit for a minute again, and plug it back in again. Could this be a problem with the power supply? It had the power supply burn out (and when I say burn out, I mean the power supply started smoking) about a year and a half/2 years ago, and I replaced it, so I'm not sure if it would be having problems again If I knew what the problem is, I'm pretty sure I could fix it, or learn how to fix it. I'd hate to have to take it in somewhere, as they would change $100 just to take a look at it, and tell me what's wrong. And it's only a P3 500mhz, and probably only worth about $100. Any advice on the problem (or what the problem might be) would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Edit: This is a desktop. I've opened it up, made sure everything is seated, all the plugs are plugged in, nothing looks burnt, melted, anything like that.

And when I say it starts to start, it only starts to start for about 1 second - the monitor doesn't even flash.

Thanks

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

redwudz · Mod Neophyte Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Location: AZ, USA

Doesn't sound that you are getting past bios boot. You should hear one beep from the internal speaker if you are. Have you tried getting into bios? Three fingered salute:CTRL+ALT+DEL will usually get you there. Although it appears you can't get that far. First, reseat all internal connectors. If that doesn't work, probably PWR supply or total motherboard failure. Replace the PS first: if still exactly the same, MB failure is most likely. The symtoms you describe aren't usually caused by memory failure or HD failure. Maybe replace the MB battery before the PS. Depending on the MB, a bad battery is a possibility. They are cheap. If you had a PS failure, your MB may be OK. I have lost a MB, but the memory and the CPU and the drives survived. Good luck!

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Yeah, I'm not even getting beeps. And I can't get anything to happen when I try to turn it on, no OS starting, not even safe mode, no bois, nothing. I'll try reseating everything, and re-plugging everything. Then I'll start with the MB battery, and then the power supply. If it ends up being the MB itself, would you recommend replacing it, or just junking it, and swapping the nicer parts to another computer?

Thanks for the assistance

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

Solarjetman · Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003

I have an old computer that this happens to when I begin to fiddle around with stuff.

Try doing this. Unplug the motherboard and drives from the power supply. Then press the power button. Of course this will not turn on the computer since the power supply is unhooked. The purpose is to discharge the motherboard.

Then only hook the motherboard back to the power supply and try to turn it on. I am not sure technically why this works, like I said I think it just discharges the board. Then if it works add the other equipment one by one.

If it does not work (and you feel comfortable doing this since you could hurt yourself), unhook it from everything and plug only a case fan into the power supply. Take about a 6 ohm resister and connect pins 4 and 5. Then take a wire and short pins 14 and 15. Then if the fan turns on, your power supply should be ok. This option would cost about $1 for a pack of 5 resisters from Radioshack. Alternately, you could spend about $10-$15 to buy a tester (which is nothing more than what I said above, but it has a little light) such as this one. That would tell you if your PSU is bad.
_________________
"A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct."
- Frank Herbert, Dune

redwudz · Mod Neophyte Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Location: AZ, USA

I have done what Solarjetman is suggesting and it works. You need to make sure you are shorting the right pins (Check the MB manual). It won't test the PS under load, but it is safe for the MB. If the PS seems OK, I would go with a new MB. They are cheaper than ever and with newer features incorporated. If you have never dug into a computer, find someone that has and it will go easier. There are lots of sites that guide you through replacing a MB. If most of your components are reasonably new, you should be able to reuse them. A lot depends on the case you have, if it will work with a new MB. Some systems like HP make it harder to just replace the MB. I recently replaced an HP MB with one for about $50US and the person is still happy with the result.

Edit: I should have asked the specs for the computer you are talking about. If 'old' is an AT or similar, you may want to start over with a new machine. Nowadays, 5 years old is getting marginal for investing much money in a machine, of course, it depends what you use it for.

The village idiot · Posted: Oct 14, 2003 02:20

It could also be a bad powersupply, but they are pretty cheap.
_________________
Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?

Adios...

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

OK. Cool. I'll tried reseating/re-plugging everything, and that wasn't it, so I'm going to go buy a new MB battery - I haven't changed it since I got the computer about 4 years ago. As for the specs, it's pretty basic (now). It's a P3 500mhz, 384MB RAM, 16GB HD, DVD-ROM (I can't remember the speed), and a 16X CR-RW. As I said, it's pretty basic, but my son can do his school work on it, and play some games - he's only 6, so he doesn't need a top of the line machine

I was kind of thinking that it might be the power supply, just because of the symptoms, but didn't want to go out and spend $20 on a new one, then have it turn out to be something totally different, and have wasted the $20. If the new battery doesn't fix it, then I'll try what Solarjetman suggested, and then go from there. Thank you very much for the help, everyone. I really appreciate it

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

Solarjetman · Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003

The village idiot · Posted: Oct 14, 2003 10:39

What do you tie the powergood line to, to make the supply stay on?
_________________
Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?

Adios...

Solarjetman · Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003

The village idiot · Posted: Oct 14, 2003 12:50

If power good doesn't get its sighnal, the powersupply is suppossed to shut down. That is why it is there. If the motherboard senses that one of the supply voltages if off enough to do dammage, it does not supply the signal on pwr good and the supply shuts down. Or at least that is the idea.

I did check the "tester" that I have and it looks like the pwr good gets connected to the -5 volts through a resistor, didn't get a meter out and check it though.
_________________
Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?

Adios...

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Solarjetman · Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003

RabidDog · Old B. Joined: 25 Oct 2002 Location: UK

Never overlook the obvious.. maybe the ps is set to 240 as six year olds have been known to fiddle.
_________________
Corned beef is now made to a higher standard than at any time in history.
The electronic components of the power part adopted a lot of Rubycons.

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

The village idiot · Posted: Oct 14, 2003 17:48

OK, the power good is generated from the powersupply to tell the system it can start.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup/funcPowerGood-c.html

So I guess it doesn't matter if it is connected.
_________________
Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?

Adios...

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

OK. I replaced the battery, that didn't help. I checked all the connections, they're good. I got a PS tester, and it says the PS is working fine, and when I unhook the PS from the MB, and connect it to the tester, the HD starts spinning, the floppy makes a noise, and the CD/DVD drives light up. So I guess that means it's the MB, right? Any suggestions on a new one? I looked at my invoice from when I bought the computer, and it says it is a BXT Motherboard W/AGP. I get the fact that it's a MB (that's pretty easy

), and the AGP would mean it has AGP slot (correct?) so does the BXT mean it's a BXT MB? Are there different types? Or is BXT most likely a brand? Do I need to look for a specific kind? I've never dealt with the MB before, so any/all advice would be greatly, greatly, greatly appreciated

Thanks

Edit: I'm sorry, I missed a line from the invoice. It says the MB is a MBP28X-ED BXT motherboard W/AGP.

Thanks

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

Solarjetman · Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003

redwudz · Mod Neophyte Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Location: AZ, USA

Take a look here and see if this is your motherboard: (http://www.epoxusa.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-BXT&lang=1) If that's what you have, you might try here for a used board: (http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/) They are in Las Vegas.
If it is a slot 1 board, they are a little hard to find new. The next alternative is to just buy a newer processor and a newer board. Get one with built-in video and audio.

The village idiot · Posted: Oct 14, 2003 21:41

Here are some real cheapos, just click the what's in the box link so you know what you are getting, I didn't really check them too closely.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details. ... =S450-3013

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details. ... =S450-3056

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details. ... =S450-3010
The last one would re-use the old CPU and fan, that is, if it is still good. The other 2 come with a processor and fan.
_________________
Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?

Adios...

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Yeah, I was figuring I'd end up going with a used/refurbished MB. Thanks for the links. Would you also recommend someplace like e-bay for a used MB? Or should I stick with stores/on-line stores?

Also, is there a difference between slot 1 and socket 370?

I don't think I can say thanks enough to you guys. But I'll try

Thanks again for the help and hand holding

Edit: Here are some pics of my MB - I thought they might help

http://www.geocities.com/j1d10t/
_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

The village idiot · Posted: Oct 15, 2003 00:27

BIG difference between slot 1 and socket 370, I guess you can cross off the third link. You might be able to get a better system on Ebay for the same , but it won't have any warranty. Tiger has a bunch of different bare bones kits, I simply picked the cheapest, there are much better machines in their bare bones section. I really like the "XPC" style for a basic machine, they take up little space, and offer good performance for the money. They look kind of cool too! Even Comp USA is starting to sell them, you might want to look at those, although it will cost you about $400 for a good one with processor and memory. I use a SS50 from shuttle (model before the SS51 and SS41) for my video and photo work, Only a 2Ghz processor, but it does a good job for now, and they would be OK for most games.
_________________
Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?

Adios...

redwudz · Mod Neophyte Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Location: AZ, USA

If I remember, the slotted processors are all mounted on a pc board that plugs into the motherboard, while the socketed use a PGA (Pin Grid Array) that is a large, flat microchip that has several hundred pins on the bottom. This is the common type available today. They aren't interchangeable. If you want to upgrade, cost wise a new Duron (PGA)processor is one of the cheapest. I bought a 1.3GHZ for about $35. A motherboard with sound and video you can get for $50-$60. A barebones system like The village idiot posted may be the easiest upgrade. You just reuse your drives and memory. It looks like one of your PC cards is in an ISA slot, and those are rare now in most motherboards. As far as Ebay, never used it.

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

So you guy would recommend replacing the MB, and the processor? Then just swapping some of the components? But looking at my MB,