Need advice on computer problem...

pixel · Member Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Location: UK

One last thing to try is unplugging drives and removing all pci/isa cards and the agp card, then putting them all back in.

People have already suggested reseating everything, but that didn't work for me. What I am suggesting is removing everything (power leads from everything including mobo etc. and taking out all cards all at once), leaving it sitting for a couple of minutes, plug it all back in and it may just work.

This has happened to me twice on two different PC's and it solved my problem.

Of course, with it being quite old it may be a dead motherboard on all accounts, but I have a P3 system and it is still running fine.

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

I'm still looking at sales, and trying to decide how far I want to for an upgrade - if I want to just upgrade a little, with something like the links The village idiot provided, or go even farther, and spend a couple hundred. I'm trying to gage how long my son will need to use it (before he gets this machine, and I buy a new), and what all he'll be doing on it during that time.

Thanks

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The village idiot · Posted: Oct 18, 2003 00:39

Well, that changes things

What if you bought a new machine for your use, and then your son uses the one you have now? Sounds like a deal that will make both of you happy.

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j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Well, I'm not quite ready to give up my machine, since it's a P4 3.02ghz, 1GB RAM, and 200GB HD

But I know in about 3-4 years this will be considered a dinosaur, and I'll need to upgrade, and I'll give him this. But I'm trying to decide how much I want to spend on fixing his machine. If I just want to fix it (and no doubt upgrade a little, to something like an 800mhz processor), or spend a more, fix it and upgrade to something like a 2ghz. He's only 6 now, and I'm trying to decide what he'll be using it for in the next 3-4 years, and when I figure that out, that will help me figure out how much I want to spend on it.

I'd like not to spend too much on it, but the question is how much is too much, and what is worth investing in it? Because if he keeps it another 3-4 years, it will be considered a dinosaur (even if I upgrade to something like a 2ghz), and then will I have spent more money than I needed to, and just end up chucking the old system? What will be sufficient, without overkill?

Decisions, decisions...
_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

pixel · Member Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Location: UK

j1d10t, you unplug everything (I mean everything; hard drives, RAM, pci cards etc, although I didn't need to remove the processor) and then plug them all back and try starting up.

It may be a last ditch attempt but its better than nothing, and as I have said, it saved me twice because I had the same symptoms as you (but that happened because I had been fiddling around inside, it didn't just happen for no reason). I think it seems to completely refresh everything in the CMOS or something.

pixel · Member Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Location: UK

If you can't decide on what to do to upgrade (if my suggestion doesn't work), maybe look at what he's doing with the PC just now. If it is just playing games and whatnot, you could probably pick up an upgrade bundle for about £130/$150 that will be about 2 GHz. You could get a Celeron or Duron, or Athlon, or even P4 kit. It's only a kids PC, so a Celeron or Duron would do fine.

Maybe something like this: http://komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=112188&p=& ... mp;cks=PRL

And when you feel it's time for an upgrade, you can use that PC for video capturing or whatever else you choose. (I use my P3 system for capturing because I find I always need onto this PC right in the middle of a capture, then I just transfer the video to this PC and encode.)

gmatov · **Banned** Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Location: Pgh Area

Josh,

Try unplugging everything but the RAM and processor, and video card. Pull off both the power connectors and the data cables from all drives including the floppy and CDs.

If you have a case fan unplug it also. I hesitate to say you should also unplug the CPU fan, although that older Intel CPU should not overheat.

Try spinning the fan in the power supply itself. Spin the CPU fan as well.

Leave everything unconnected. Try to start it. You should go to boot screen.
If you didn't disconnect the CPU fan, does it try to rock?

Flip the power switch on the back of the power supply off, then back on. Find the little connector on one corner of the board that is marked "reset", pull it off, then take a small screwdriver and short those 2 pins.

This is 5 or 12 volts, you are not going to see a fireball, there's nowhere inside that box where you can get shocked except in the PS itself, and then only 110 volts at a couple points.

One post above had the right idea. If a fan freezes up, it will go into a "locked rotor" kind of phase, overdrawing because it is not turning That will tell the PSU to shut off.

The shorting of the reset pins is to "train" the PSU.

When you said earlier that when you pulled the PSU connector from the board and the drives started spinning, it indicated that something was not right with something that is connected to the board. Something is drawing too much current and the PSU, which has some intelligence circuitry built in, told itself so and shut down.

This comes from the Mother Board TO the "Power Good" pin, the motherboard and other power draws are in the acceptable range, so the PSU will stay powered up. Something is shorting out, which is what a locked up, but not burnt out, or open circuited, fan would be equivalent to.

I'd try that before I bought another MB/CPU.

Hope this helps. Don't forget to put the reset connector back on.

Cheers,

George

Solarjetman · Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003

gmatov · **Banned** Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Location: Pgh Area

One thing I forgort to say is if it doesn't start with the vid card in it, pull that also It could be the culprit. If it works without the card, it shouldd work with a new card. It WILL go to POST without a Vid card, you just won't be able to see it.

Reconnect 1 piece at a time, and reboot after each part is connected.

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

OK. I pulled out everything, but the video card, RAM, and processor fan, unhooked all the drives, tried to start, got the same reaction - tried to start for half a second, then stopped. I then pulled the video card, same thing. I then unhooked the processor fan, and got the same reaction - I could hear the processor (for lack of a better term) "processing", then silence. I put the video card back in, same thing.

The reset connector, is that on the MB? Because I looked all over and couldn't find anything that said reset.

Thanks

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Well, Fry's had a sale today on a MB & CPU combo, so I went out and bought a Celeron 2.4ghz CPU with MB, 256MB RAM, and a new CPU fan. It was only $150, so I figured that wasn't so bad. Now I get the joy of putting it all together, and installing it

Wish me luck

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Ok, I've got another question

I was reading the book that came with the MB, and when it's talking about installing the CPU it says to apply thermal grease to the top of the CPU before installing the fan. What is thermal grease? Is this something I need to make another trip to the computer store for? Probably sounds like a stupid question, but I hope not

Thanks

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

redwudz · Mod Neophyte Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Location: AZ, USA

Check your CPU fan first. Many have a piece of thermal tape that substitutes for the thermal paste. If not, yes you will definatelly need the paste. You only need a tiny amount, equivalent to a few thousands of an inch thickness. I would recommend attaching the CPU and the heatsink before installing the board. I set it on a padded surface and carefully stretch the heatsink bracket into place. Everything else is mostly plug and play. Good luck.

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

The fan has a small gray square (the size of the CPU) on the bottom of it - it almost looks like gray electricians tape, kind of rubbery/plasticy looking. Would that be it?

Thanks for the fast reply

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

redwudz · Mod Neophyte Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Location: AZ, USA

Yes, that's the thermal tape. It usually has a clear cover strip, but may not, depending on the packaging. Read the heatsink directions carefully. The heatsinks on newer processors take a fair amount of force to seat properly.

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Cool. The top and bottom of the fan had clear plastic covers over the them, if that means anything. And it doesn't look like there is clear tape in the bottom of the fan. I am definitely reading the directions carefully - I don't want to mess this up

Thank you for the help

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

gmatov · **Banned** Joined: 21 Nov 2002 Location: Pgh Area

Josh,

The reset is among the connector pins in a little cluster on one corner of your board, usually bottom right on a tower, desktop should be left front.

4 or five pairs of thin wires plugged onto a pair of pins each. One will be marked reset, one HDD, one Power, or PS, or something..

Actually, I don't know why just pushing the reset button doesn't do the same thing, and maybe it does, but since not all cases have a reset button, Compaq comes to mind, maybe the PS instructions prefer to tell you to short the pins instead.

If you bought a new CPU cooler, you can use the tape that came on it, thermal transfer interface or whatever they call it, or remove it completely and use a thermal paste, but as a tube of Arctic Silver goes about 8 bucks, and is good for maybe a hundred CPU installs, you might not want to buy it.

You might have gotten a small plastic squeeze bag of paste with the cooler. Just use it sparingly. I spread a little around then twist the heatsink a few times to spread it very thinly. If it is too thick, it becomes a heat insulator instead.

I looked at the link above and the pic was not at all helpful, so far as pinouts go. If you have a book, with a schematic/diagram, it should show you the reset pins.

Cheers,

George

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

George,
I found the reset pins earlier - I unhooked the reset button from it, and tried touching them together with a little screwdriver I had. It still wouldn't start.

I just got the new MB and CPU installed, and am going to give it a test run. I'm pretty sure I got everything all hooked up correctly, and set the jumpers to the correct position - I set them to the "auto" and "normal" settings. It was actually kind of fun to replace the MB and CPU

Thanks for the help

_________________
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgment."
Zefram Cochrane
2073

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

OK. I was getting excited, and having fun, but I think I might have jinxed myself by feeling too proud about accomplishment (