The MPAA....

tgpo · No Longer Mod Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Location: The South Side

The MPAA....

They don't really bother me, but there rules are very dumb and I feel oppressive!
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flaninacupboard · LD King Joined: 18 Aug 2001 Location: Northants, England

has no effect on what they do, i'm in the UK. does sound like they suck though.

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

I think they need to realize that if what they are doing now isn't working, try something else! If you're going one direction and it's not looking good, try going the other direction. Maybe if they bend a little, aren't so hard nosed, they can work it to their advantage...
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Vejita-sama · Member Joined: 08 Jun 2001 Location: Seattle, WA

I think the MPAA should be pretty pissed off. People are stealing their property and robbing them of sales. However, I don't like them. And the whole DMCA is pure crap.

thefox149 · Member Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Location: Sydney Australia

Don't you think that if Companies like Sony etc had made Audio CD's DVD's more price effective for the everyday consumer then they would have minimised piracy.....In Australia an Audio CD cost 30 (15 American)
Thats far to much it were 12 (6dollars US) bucks Most people would bother downloading it
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rude_skankin · Member Joined: 07 Nov 2002

MPAA = Most Pathetic Association in America
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mysticgohan17 · superxero88 Joined: 22 Nov 2001

considering i just downloaded a book without a hint of guilt, I've realized money is only made off stuff that makes people fat, stupid etc. (like fast food, video games, TV, movies and stuff)
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Nitemare · Posted: Jun 16, 2003 01:42

I agree comletely with thefox149. I don't know of a single person bootlegging movies for resale in my area. The few people I know of who back up DVDs illegally do it because the DVDs are too price prohibitive for them. (Note: I often argue that the $1000 PC they want to back up their DVD rentals with would have bought quite a few DVDs)

Okay... I won't pass any more judgements.

Most "bootleggers" only do so for their personal use because the price of DVDs, computer software, and audio CDs is more than they are willing to pay. Lowering the price would stem the vast majority of illegal backups in all cases.

Also, at the risk of sounding like conspiracy theorist, there are the blatant ways that these companies use to STEAL our money. I remember when audio CDs were brand new. Some sales guy in a mall took an audio CD and tossed it like a frisbee, sliding it across the floor. He asked if any of us were brave enough to do this with our 45 records, and none of us were. He popped the same CD into a CD player and it played flawlessly. I was pretty impressed.

So what ever happened to that "feature"? Simple. It occurred to some record company exec. that they'd never be able to make millions on the replacing of damaged and scratched Cds if they allowed this to continue so they buried the technology.

And I'm supposed feel sorry for these [expletive]? They killed our beloved vinyl and forced us to take what they wanted us to have at DOUBLE the price even though it only cost them 1/3 (at that time) of the price to make it.

The same is happening with DVD now. Why does a DVD cost more than a video when you KNOW it's cheaper for them to produce? (at least it was until they invested all that money into worthless copy protection schemes) Instead of getting a clue they throw good money after bad persuing litigation and newer and better copy protection. Reasonable pricing is all they need. The DMCA is just one more example of the dirty tricks these [expletive] use to steal our money.

I buy very few DVDs (and I back it up even before I watch it for the first time) and almost never go to the theater to see a movie. I'd do a lot more of both if the price weren't so ridiculous. These people are NOT earning my respect or my money.

Still... bootlegs aren't the answer. If no one bought their product at the current prices, then they'd be FORCED to lower the price. Bootlegs only give them a reason to ignore the obvious. "No! It's not because we're greedy and stupid! It's the bootleggers, man! They must be stopped!"

The people making illegal backups argue that these companies would never see their money anyway, so technically they're not "losing" anything. It's a weak argument but it has some merit. Why make bootlegs that may not play on a future DVD player when you could buy a reasonably priced product and use it? Right now the only reason is that the reasonably priced product is missing from the equation.

Sorry for the length. These jokers (MPAA, RIAA) really [expletive] me off!
Nitemare
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overloaded_ide · Member Joined: 13 Mar 2003

Nitemare,

You hit the head right on the nail! They are to stupid to see anything for what its worth! $10 is the most ANY CD is worth if even that! More like $5!
Finnally I am buying tons of DVD's now, $5.88 at Wall Mart! Sure old movies, but stuff we want. I won't buy the $18 rehashed old movies though just because they put in some deleted scene, or worse just becaue it's owned by a greedy company and is the exact same old movie!

Napster for instance! How much money have they blown over that crapola.
Fact 1, great advertising method for thier cds! To stupid to see it though!

Fact 2, half the stuff I downloaded (did not download alot) was actually junk! Poorley ripped, low quality sound, smaps, crakles, hiss, and the end was cut off!

SO I download a song, I like the song, the quality is trash, so I go out and buy the cd! Yea, that cost them alot of money! I got to hear what I bought first, when I would not have bought it otherwise!

fact 3 first time sales were reported down to such low levels was AFTER they got Napster shut down! Stopped the piracy and lost sales!!! What does that tell anyone with a brain! They cut thier own throat!

Most CDs have a couple decent new songs and the rest is garbage or rehashed old stuff. Once you buy it and find you paid $16 for 2 good songs and 8 garbage ones you cannot return it for a refund! So who is ripping off who??

So I was not buying ANY CDs untill napster came along. Then I was able to hear the whole cd one song at a time, so If I liked em I bought em! I bought alot of cds then, mostly for the kid.
With all the garbage over napster, and I don't care to change P2P or go in for spy ware, I no-longer preview the CDs and that means I don't buy them now again! So what cost them the most money?

Also with billions of songs out by millions of artists, are they even selling the stuff I want? NO, I want old stuff and not a rehash melody of the 60's greatest hits type junk either. So if I were to pirate a song I want, big deal, they aren't even selling it!

Many movies the same way! Remember Gilligans Island? The whole cast was in a movie, Think it was Whackiest Wagon Train or something like that. I have an account at several big movie venders to buy wholesale for retail and for rentals. They have the Movie listed, it was once sold, but you can not get it now! Dead item! So what if I grab a pirate copy somehow? They refuse to sell it to me!!
I haven't been buying wholesale lattely becuase of the high dollar volume I have to purchase at once, and wall mart has it for less if they have it at all! But I have access to nearly everything that's being sold!

The goverments need to step in and change the copy right laws to the consumers advantage. Once something is no longer produced and available for purchase it should become public domain right then! NOT life and 76 years latter! What kinda garabe is that BONO amendment?

Talk about conflict of interest and crooks! Who got paid what over those BONO changes to the copyrights?

You do know what I mean by BONO right. It can be taken several ways, and I mean both of them. SONY BONO, of SONY AND CHER, as congressman got several changes to the existing copyright laws made.
Higher royalties, and the now artists life plus 76 yrs untill it becomes public domain. It was 26yrs renewable for another 26yrs, then became public domain! 56yrs total is enough to get rich off one lucky phrase! Get real! Tell me there was not payoffs involved, or no conflict of interest in serving the public and being a big name entertainer and owner of copyrights when THOSE laws were changed!

So do I really care about the big guys profits if I steal a song or movie or tv show sometime that is not available to buy anyway??

I mean really, who's the bigest thief here? The big movie and recording compaines or us little guys that get a few things for our own personal use?
And then on top of that, we have to fight to use what we actually legaly bought and have full legal right to use!
Snowwhite Disney Platinum edition DVD would not work on the PC till I found and installed a macrovision patch! I bought 6 copies for about $150 and was not even able to watch them!
Today I tried to watch JUMANJI with Robin Willians and even with the patch installed and a signal cleaner I got the goofey lines destroing the picture on the PC! That was VHS, but I like to watch stuff on the PC for better picture and 6 channel surround sound. SO even though I legally own the movies and habe the right to watch them they are trying to BONO me again!
New phrase, " Don't Bono that movie"
Like the old "Don't Bogart that joi*t"
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Balaclava · Member Joined: 05 Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada

Excuse my ignorance but exactly what is the MPAA. It seems that I don't understand a lot of the topics on your polls. This makes it very difficult for me to vote. That is why I usually chose the tgpo option when it is available.

seinman · Member Joined: 20 Jul 2001 Location: Chicago

Not to be too nitpicky, but shouldn't it say "I Hate Them And Their Stupid Rules?"

mysticgohan17 · superxero88 Joined: 22 Nov 2001

tgpo · No Longer Mod Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Location: The South Side

Nitemare · Posted: Jun 16, 2003 10:12

Ah yes, ...materials that are no longer for sale. In some cases, it's been banned in my country. If you live in the USA, you can't buy Disney's "Song of the South", nor will you see it broadcast here. It's been banned.

I've never seen it so I'm not sure why... but you know the USA... 1 out of every 6 persons is a lawyer. Lately, we've been geting nailed with terrorist attacks. They should just wait it out. Lawyers and greedy corporations will destroy this country in just a few more years and the average citizen fears the lawsuit more than the bomb. A bomb will just kill you, a lawsuit will make you wish you were dead... but I digress...

This is a product that I'd be happy to rent or possibly purchase, but it is not and WILL not be available here. IF I had high speed internet access and IF I could find a rip/capture of this movie from another country I'd probably download it in a second... and then I'd go to prison and get a huge fine. ...and for what? "Stealing" something that I couldn't buy if I wanted to?

These people have no interest in what the consumer wants. Instead they try to TELL us what we want and then pass more laws to force us to take it. I quietly continue to vote with my wallet... and hover at $5.88 rack in WalMart.

MADNESS!!!
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Gazorgan · Posted: Jun 16, 2003 10:23

Well let's see:

1) I saw a newly released DVD this weekend for $19.95 (US), while the VHS was $14.95. That fact alone is what truly Pisses me off! We have professionals on these forums that know the costs of Commercially duplicating DVD's and VHS tapes. It's utter crapola I have to pay $5 more for something that doesn't cost more to make. For this reason, and this reason alone I don't buy new release movies.

2) In the US, when you 'buy' a movie, you haven't. All you have purchased is some plastice or some plastic/magnetic material. You don't 'own' anything. You haven't purchased the rights to a copy of the movie. Herein lies the fundamental flaw in the MPAA in the digital age. If I could purchase a license to a movie, then I'd be a happy camper. It could be on DVD, DVDR, CDR, my Server, My tivo, doesn't really matter. The Audio industry is going this way, they don't really ahve a choice in the matter. The MPAA lives in fear of this method because they (rightly) fear no one will pay for their movies. Not. Less than 1% in the US backup their stuff.....the average person doesn't have a clue you can even do it, despite the 4 spams a day telling them otherwise.

3) I recently took my son to see 'Matrix 2'. The whole endeavor cost me $38.50. That was $11.50 for tickets and $27.00 for junkfood. Now how can I add the cost of junkfood to the movie price? Easy, I can't bring in food with me, or drinks or anything. $9.00 tubs of popcorn do affect movie sales. Now I really wanted to see Matrix 2 in stadium seats and THX sound, and I paid a lot for it. I wouldn't pay that again to see it a second time, and 'Box Office hits' have to bee seen more than once (Harry Potter, Star Wars, films like that). However, having seen Matrix 2 in awesome conditions, I would be content to watch it again on my TV in regular surround sound (The candy is red, just like in the first film, I missed it the first time).

4) How many people have VHS tapes of something recorded off of HBO? Everyon in the US that has/had HBO? WTF is the difference if I do that, but use my DVR instaed? Not a thing that I can see. It's EXACTLY the same. Doesn't make it right, but since EVERYONE does it, it's a defacto accepted practice and the MPAA can't do a thing about it. Well, they got Macrovision mandated, but my digital cablebox doesn't support macrovision so why aren't they suing Texas Instruments and Time Warner Cable?

At some point the theaters are going to fade,a nd people will watch new releases on Cable/Internet. Imagine how many people would pay to see movies at home? I mean it's $3.95 now for some old flick from 5 years ago with digital cable. I'm sure new releases would be higher. Not as high as a PPV event. Heck, maybe they will do it like Disney, and release directly to DVD and avoid the theater alltogether?
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pablo180 · Member Joined: 16 Jan 2003

There are several good points already made here, such as what happens when you can’t buy something like a song or a film for love nor money. In my opinion that is the only time that there is a possible reason for having an illegal copy. But even then you have to look at it from the artist’s point of view, just cos they aren’t making it anymore doesn’t mean you can have it for free.

Not all that long ago Microsoft carried out a big investigation into copyright theft and copyright protection. I think they were hoping to prove that their Palladium product would solve all the piracy problems. Anyway this investigation concluded that fighting piracy was a losing battle because there was no such thing as a fool proof copyright protection system. They concluded that rather than spending the money on copyright protection the best way to fight piracy was to make better and cheaper products.

Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like Microsoft or anybody else paid any attention to that expensive investigation. If they made DVD’s cheaper then noone would be interested in getting an illegal copy. I think that the Movie Industry exaggerate the effect of piracy on their business. There has always been the big counterfeiter’s and yes it is on the increase but so is counterfeit clothing. Why? Cos clothing is becoming more and more expensive (designer clothing). It is just an excuse to push the prices up. Worldwide DVD sales are on the increase, so it can’t be seriously damaging sales like they make out.

They stimulate piracy by staggering the releases of the films around the world. Someone in the US with a camcorder can have the film on the net within days of it being released. In Europe\Asia someone will likely download it rather than wait three or four months before it is out there. There were loads of bootleg copies of Attack of the Clones going round work months before it was released, lots of people were tempted. I wasn’t as a crappy pirate can make a film seem shit and put you off going to see it or renting it. However with the Matrix Reloaded it was released around the world about the same time. By the time the bloke at work came in waving his pirate copy everybody that wanted to see it already had, at the cinema. Staggering releases and DVD regions just add fuel to the piracy fire.

Also a guy in the UK is trying to start a new type of cinema here called EasyCinema, where you buy the tickets online so there is no staff (barely) anyway the tickets are 20p each. Surprise surprise the big movie companies wouldn’t sell him any films cos they don’t like the prices he is charging saying they are just too low. He did start off with a few, I went to see Cradle to the Grave and for 20p you can’t go wrong. Now they just seem to be showing films that are available to rent. Pressure from the movie industry perhaps?

There is a word for this sort of behaviour, Greed!

Gazorgan · Posted: Jun 16, 2003 11:48

Good point. If you could buy the DVD for $8.95 (2x the cost of renting it or getting it from digital cable), then there is no point in stealing it. Factoring in the cost of media, time, and cost of burner, it's just not worth the effort. I can see a vending machine with DVD's instead of candy, jsut the latest releases.

Oh wait......I'm talking about the DVD's that turn opaque after being exposed to air. At least I got the price right. You know, if the disk is going to go bad 48 hours after I open it, I guess I should back it up right away!!!!!!!! Talk about a counter productive technology

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pablo180 · Member Joined: 16 Jan 2003

The MPA (or MPAA) and the music industry have been lobbying for changes in the law in Europe as well. In fact due to their lobbying a law has recently come into effect in Europe that really takes the piss. It was due to go through in the UK in December but I haven’t heard anything about it since then so it probably went through during the Iraq war when everyone’s attention was diverted.

Basically this new law would change the UK’s current fair trading policy making it possible to make CD’s and DVD’s that won’t play in PC’s. Under current fair trading laws if you make a CD or a DVD it must conform to the standard and be playable in CD and DVD players. If it doesn’t you can get it refunded or make a complaint under the fair trade act. Under this new law it will be possible for the music and film industry to make CD’s and DVD’s that won’t play in all current players. If you buy a new CD get it home and your home stereo won’t play it you won’t be entitled to a refund or to complain. In fact if I remember rightly the only way you could complain would be to the Home Secretary who would then take it up with the company if he felt there was a need.

The reason for this change is so that the movie and music industries can start making CD’s and DVD’s that won’t play in PC’s to try and stop piracy. They’ll probably not work in a lot of older stereos and DVD players too but they don’t seem to care.

According to the music and film industry’s this new law will allow them to make better copyright protected CD’s and DVD’s as they are currently restricted by the CD and DVD formats. A slight change in the format will make many CD and DVD players obsolete but now there is a new law to cover their backs so they don’t have to worry about that.

This law has already come into effect in several EU countries.

sctele · Member Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Location: USA

All I gotta say is that if i download a movie, and like it, I usually buy it. I think that if you've downloaded a whole bunch of movies or songs, buy at least one movie and album that you've really liked. I had no problem shelling out a couple of bucks for the Fellowship of the Ring: collectors edition. Sure it was expensive, but hey I liked the movie and I liked the additional dvd's that you got with it. On a side note: best buy is having a special where they have 4 movies for 30 bucks. I intend to get the Man with No Name trilogy (clint eastwoods spaghetti westerns) and Zulu. They cost like $10 a piece if you buy them seperatly. Not a bad deal I say! What do you guys think?

zzyzzx · Cute Cat Joined: 14 Aug 2000 Location: Baltimore, MD USA

j1d10t · Human Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: California, USA

Gazorgan is right about having to pay more for the DVD than the VHS. It sucks! It's like paying Texaco (for one) more money NOT to put lead in the gas...
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2073