How to create a SVCD with mpeg2 5.1 sound from avi + ac3

surferjoe · Member Joined: 12 Jun 2002

Needed software:

Virtual Dub or NanDub
AC3_fix
ReMPEG
TMPEG

1st: extract the ac3 sound from the avi file with Virtual Dub using the save wav option
Rename the output file to the extension .ac3

2nd: Use ac3_fix to fix the ac3 file as Virtual dub seems to produce errors in the header of the ac3 file

3rd: convert the fixed ac3 file to a mpeg2 5.1 sound file with the tool option in ReMPEG (Use max bitrate which is 384 kbits/sec)

4th: Convert the avi video file to mpeg2 svcd compliant with TMPEG (video only)
make shure not to use a to high bitrate as SVCD can only use a total max bitrate just over 2700 kbits/sec so do the math:
2700 - 384 (soundfile) = 2300 kbits/sec

5th: multiplex the mpeg2 video file with the mpeg2 audiofile (.mpa) to the filan SVCD with mpeg2 audio file

6th: Burn this file to CD with Nero but make shure to switch of the standard compliant option

Now you should have a SVCD with surround sound!!!

At least I was able to get surround sound on all my 6 speakers of my reciever using a Cyberhome DVD standalone player

If there is something wrong in this HowTO, I´d be glad to get more usefull tips on this topic

lourenc2 · Member Joined: 28 Jun 2002

do you have a dolby digital reciever? and if so when you play the audio out of the digital source from the dvd player to the reciever does it show up as dolby digital or do u get 5.1 if you use dolby pro logic.

Swaze360 · Member Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Location: Buffalo, NY

I have a question also. Does the original avi file has to have a DD 5.1 decoded audio or can I use any file and make it 5.1 by default?

TIA! Peace! Swaze Copernicus

lourenc2 · Member Joined: 28 Jun 2002

swaze
i am not sure but i speculate that if this in fact true then you would need the ac3 file to be dolby digital...
one more question... can u just extract the ac3 from the vob using dvd2avi then fix that ac3 and then use ReMPEG or do u have to use virtual dub?

adam · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2000 Location: United States

I'm not positive this method will preserve all the audio channels, I've read that with rempeg you only get 5 channels, not 5.1, but if it does then you will have a multichannel mpeg audio SVCD. There is already software which will do this for you, but I suppose this is as good a method as any if it works.

You definitely do not get dolby digital and I have to say that I am skeptical that you are even getting 5.1 audio channels.

Unless your audio decoder specifically supports multichannel mpeg audio than you are not actually getting 5.1 audio channels. Also very few dvd players can actually correctly export the additional channels in a SVCD. The result is that your dvd player only passes along a regular stereo audio signal which your decoder will play in prologic, which will still play sound in all of your speakers. If you truly want to verify that you are getting 5.1 channels than you should use a recognizably descretely encoded test disk that says, "front right speaker," "rear right speaker" etc... I posted such a test disk in another thread, it shouldnt be too hard to find in a forum search.

Not to knock your guide or your process, but the fact is that almost no hardware is able to actually use a multichannel mpeg audio svcd. %99 of the time even if your svcd actually contains the 5.1 signals, you will still only get prologic.

hypercube · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Location: France

ReMPEG is buggy. The audio channels are not in right order. But technically, 5.1 SVCD works on my Phillips 762 player.

I'm currently working on new freeware called Hypercube. Normally,
this tool will be ready in October. Please be patient.

Hypercube can transcode 5.1 AC3 files to 5.1 audio MPEG Multichannels.

currently, with hypercube, I was able to create SVCD with 2 audio 5.1 tracks.

daro73 · Member Joined: 10 Mar 2002

I'm of the same opinion as Adam. SVCD with true 5.1 Sound...if it works...it will only play on a few DVD Players.99% of all players don't support such a feature. I have a SEG DVD Player which "plays everything that is round and has a hole in the middle" *g* and the only way to get real 5.1 Sound from this player is to create a Mini-DVD.
I think what you mentioned is the Dolby Surround feature. If you convert a DVD with Dolby Surround Downmix, you can hear Sound from all 5 speakers. But this audio file is Dolby Digital 2.0 - Dolby Surround.It's a stereo signal which includes Surround Information for centerand the rear left and right speaker splittet as mono. It's not Dolby Digital 5.1 !
I will test it with your way and I will be impressed if my Dolby Digital receiver says DD 5.1...

hypercube · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Location: France

MPEG Multichannel is not dolby surround.
MPEG Multichannel is discribe in MPEG2 audio standard (ISO/IEC 13818-3).
This is an extension of MPEG1 audio standard (ISO/IEC 11172-3)

MPEG Multichannel is the official European standard for multi channel DVD surround, however very few disks use this format. It can offer up to 7.1 channels of audio; however it is easily surpassed in terms of quality of sound by both Dolby Digital and DTS. It never gained wide acceptance in the industry with producers preferring to use the existing soundtracks produced for other versions such as the US which were commonly already in Dolby Digital or DTS

Movman · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2002 Location: Germany

I thought DD 5.1 is not possible on SVCD. You only get Dobly ProLogic.
You can put 2 Sound stream on a SVCD with Dolby ProLogic, but you have to reduce the bitrate of the Video stream because of the second audio stream. (2700 Kps - 378-378 =1944 kps Video stream).

But why don´t you use DVD2SVCD a greate tool. You can switch the incoming media to avi.
All other things done automatically. You only have to wait.
You can decide which sound format you prefer ( stereo, Dolby Pro Logic, etc. ).

Try it out.

Excellent quality

hypercube · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Location: France

yes, dolby digital 5.1 is NOT possible on SVCD.
but MPEG Multichannel is possible on SVCD (and DVD)
The result is very good. With this format, you have
6 real discrete channels (including LFE).

Dolby surround prologic is a little bit tricky: 4 virtual channels are
decoded from 2 real discrete channels.

I have read some information about MPEG multichannel here:
(in french)
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/bible/codage/mpeg2_dvd.shtml

MPEG Multichannel have been introduced by Phillips and sony.
So, it's not a surprise my Phillips 762 can play 5.1 SVCD...

A friend have successfully tested my 5.1 SVCD on Pioneer VSX808RDS.

look at this:
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/Amplifiers/Pioneer/Pion ... 808RDS.jpg
on bottom left of the picture you can see the MPEG Multichannel logo.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/frame.html?http://www.h ... 8RDS.shtml

Movman · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2002 Location: Germany

Thank you, but my french is not that good.

Where can i get english or german information about mpeg multichannel

hypercube · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Location: France

Use Google translation: http://www.google.fr/language_tools?hl=en

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homecine ... uage_tools

A good VOB for 5.1 testing can be found here:
1. go to http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/trailers.html
2. download "AC3 5.1 channel test"

surferjoe · Member Joined: 12 Jun 2002

OK, back from work

WOW, what a response to this theme.

1st to Movman: why is your calculation to substract 378 kbnits twice from the total bitrate?

AC3 is 448 kbits and mpeg2 AAC, what I´m talking about is coming at 384 kbits/sec and is a 5.1 reduced mix from the original ac3 stream.

Does anyone know a tool that can tell on an mpeg2 strem if ther are REAL 6 channels?
MPEG-Properties just tells me the sound format is illeagl, allthough I can play it on WMP AND on my DVD standalone

Movman · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2002 Location: Germany

Sorry my fault.

I´ve putting 2 Audio streams to my svcds.

The right audio bitrate is 384 kps. ( 2700 - 2* 384kps )

tygrus2000 · Member Joined: 30 May 2001 Location: God's Country

What happens when you put a 5.1 mpeg svcd into a dvd player that doesnt not have decoding ability? Will you get a stereo mix down, or just white noise?

tygrus

adam · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2000 Location: United States

If your dvd player does not support MC audio in a SVCD then it will export a stereo signal, which can still be decoded into prologic.

If your prologic capable reciever doesnt support MC mpeg audio then regardless of what format your dvd player sends it, it should still be able to decode to prologic, well excluding mono source of course.

So if one or both of your pieces of hardware, dvd player or reciever, does not specifically support MC audio in a SVCD, then you will either get stereo, prologic, or prologic II, dending on your reciever.

offline · incognito Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Location: Mondo Caine

I would never use V.dub to extract .ac3 audio it screws more than just the header in my experience. Use rempeg2 to demux the .ac3 and leave as is. If you have to downmix (for either mpeg surround, dolby 2.0 surround or dolby prologic II) use HeadAc3 and make sure you match the number of true channels to the ouput no. of speakers.

Now having said this.. can anyone advise on a DTS miniDVD
procedure?

surferjoe · Member Joined: 12 Jun 2002

To Offline:

There is no option in ReMPEG to extract ac3 from an avi file...

The only progs I know is Nandub / V-dub

Is AVI to WAV a propper option for extracting the ac3 stream?

offline · incognito Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Location: Mondo Caine

HJRodrigo · Member Joined: 18 Sep 2002

Here is a web site with more info: http://www.disktech.com.au/DVD/audioenc.htm
http://homepages.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de/~aceace/html/mpeg-audio.html
Maybe the mpeg MC logo should be added to the logos to download if this works for svcd.

surferjoe · Member Joined: 12 Jun 2002

OK, another update on this theme:

I´m working with DVD2SVCD as this is supposed to have the possibility to encode 6 channel mpeg2 sound as well.

will keep you updated if you´re interested.

But here´s another link that´s interesting:

http://www.stud.uni-siegen.de/sven.koelsch/mpeg2mc/

And for all those looking for the sonic soft encoder:
get it here:
no warez links pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
The Edinburgh Speech Tools Library You can download here:

http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/download/festival/1.4.2/

So, if anyone is able to work with this tutorial and get it working I´d ba glad to here more

hypercube · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Location: France

My website is done.
http://hypercube.is.dreaming.org

See the guide "how to make 5.1 SVCD", and
"The audio format jungle". May it can be
clarify the situation about "MPEG Multichannel"
format.

I don't think, like daro73, MPEG Multichannel
work on 1% of dvd players. It's may be true
in US but not in Europe.

LePousson · Member Joined: 30 Sep 2002

Andwhen i would like to make a SVCD 5.1 from VOB files stored on my hard drive ???

hypercube · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Location: France

you must extract AC3 audio track form your vob and encode with hypercube transcoder.

Encode the video with DVDx + AViSynth frameserver + TmpgEnc

multiplex your final 5.1 SVCD with TmpgEnc

surferjoe · Member Joined: 12 Jun 2002

Hypercube,

a big thanx for your webpage,

Just downloaded your program and started working with it. Hopefully The results are better than with ReMPEG.

Anyway, you can alternativly encode a svcd with multichannel audio using DVD2SVCD but it takes about 10 to 12 hours for a 700 mb avi file. (P 4 1.7 GHz)

hypercube · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Location: France

I'm going to make a new release for hypercube:

some guys want to encode 5.1 SVCD from AVI with AC3 track.

I'm going to implement "AVI with AC3 track" support in Hypercube transcoder as input format.

(technically I known how to make this feature, so it won't be very long)

I have read the famous BIG thread at doom9 about 5.1 SVCD.

most people say there is no big stat on MPEG Multichannel compliance.
I'm planing to make such stat on my website, like www.vcdhelp.com
for the SVCD compliance database.

but it's a lot of work. So be patient.

swoop · Member Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Location: The Netherlands

Yo, hypercube!
Your HyperCube works alright, but volume level of created files is little bit lower compared to the original. Don't you think so?

Maybe you can add your e-mail address on your homepage also...
KEEP DOING!!!

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