How to make a VCD/SVCD with CD Audio (CDDA)

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

What is VCD/SVCD with CD Audio?
It is a VCD/SVCD with CD Audio.

. The VCD and the SVCD standard allows CD Audio(CDDA). A VCD/SVCD with CD Audio will work on all VCD/SVCD capabable DVD Players and the CD audio will work on all DVD Players and also on all standard CD Players (the DVD/CD Players must support the media you are burning on also).

How to make a VCD/SVCD with CD Audio using VCDEasy and Fireburner
First make the VCD/SVCD with www.vcdhelp.com/vcdeasyhowto.htm , be sure to select no CD-Writer and VCDEasy will instead of burning make a BIN and CUE file.

Launch www.fireburner.com and select File->Import track from cuesheet and open the CUE you created with VCDEasy. Select File->Load tracks to add your wav files, each wav file will be a track. Last burn it, Create CD->Burn.

Done. You should now be able to play it in both your DVD Player and CD Player but of course will you only hear the CD Audio in the CD Player.

It is also possible to use Philips VCD Toolkit to make a VCD with CD Audio but is kinda complex.

dinesh · Member Joined: 24 Dec 2001

I have made a VCD with CD Audio tracks - by altering the CUE File of the BIN/CUE created by vcdimager manually and burning with CDRWIN.

In my experience, if a VCD player is set to Non PBC mode, tracks will be played on sequence. First the Video sequence tracks followed by Audio CD tracks. The last frame of the last track will however be visible when the Audio tracks are playing. I am not sure how many DVD players allow a VCD to play in Non PBC mode.

vitualis · Moderator Joined: 01 Oct 2000 Location: Australia

You should be able to turn off PBC from a menu on a DVD player. Similarly, you could make VCD1.1 (or PBC-less VCD2.0).

Regards.
_________________
Michael Tam
vitualis' Medical Rant :: stay updated, read the rant
The Medicine Box
GNU VCDImager Authoring Guide Series

cmos88 · Member Joined: 29 Sep 2002

Could some one please tell how to make still image VCD with backround music? The VCDEASY does not have the function that allow users to merge audio with mpeg image files.

vitualis · Moderator Joined: 01 Oct 2000 Location: Australia

Please post something that is relevant to the thread. If you have a new question, then please start a new thread in the appropriate forum.

Regards.
_________________
Michael Tam
vitualis' Medical Rant :: stay updated, read the rant
The Medicine Box
GNU VCDImager Authoring Guide Series

mysticgohan17 · superxero88 Joined: 22 Nov 2001

How do you edit the cue file manually(addd tracks in CDRWin doesn't work)?

nandi_nokuri · Member Joined: 24 Sep 2002

I have made three coasters so far, and Fireburner just keeps making them cd audio not a mix cd. What am I doing wrong ?

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

Halo,

I have followed every step in hope to create a working AVCD but when i put the created CD into my CD player, it says "Disc not finalised". It seems the created CD is not properly closed after using Fire Burner.

VCDEasy gave some error message stating some error with my Videos (due to TMPGEnc). I wonder if it is because I have used TMPGEnc to encode my video?

Can anyone help?

Below is part of the log when I use VCDEasy Ver 1.1.2 to create the cue file.

---
adding pbc (Selection-000/2)
adding pbc (Selection-001/2)
adding pbc (Selection-002/2)
adding pbc (Selection-003/2)
adding pbc (Selection-004/2)
adding pbc (Selection-end/3)
sequence count 5
adding sequence #0, E:\mtv-vcd\a-ha - Did Anyone Approach You Encoded.mpg
strange (possibly non-compliant) user_data seen... (not a problem, usually a sign of TMPGEnc)
pts start offset 0.340078 (max pts = 250.462522)
playing time 250.122444
scanning mpeg sequence item #0 for scanpoints...
already scanned... not rescanning
adding sequence #0, E:\mtv-vcd\a-ha - Forever Not Yours from asf.mpg
strange (possibly non-compliant) user_data seen... (not a problem, usually a sign of TMPGEnc)
---

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

desireless: did you remember to choose finish/close cd in fireburner? I have tried it and it works fine on my pioneer dvd player and on an kinda old cd player.

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

Well, I was using Fireburner 2.17. The programme just keeps "Test Burning" without actually burning the CDR. Even unchecking "Test Burn" in the "rEcording options" won't help at all. It will still give me a message "Continue with Test Burning..." thing. Hence the CDR went through Test Burning without actual burning. This is why I kept ending up with and empty CDR and got the message "Disc Not Finalised" on my CD player.

Another point to note is that if I check "Disc-at-Once 96" (as I always do for CD Creator), the recording with hang at one point and I have to restart my PC.

With all these frustration, I have finally made one AVCD with Fireburner ver 1.06. I won't say it is 100% successful. This is because it is not the commercial "Audio Video CD" format that I have wanted to make.

I still have to skip track to the audio part on my CD player. Example, if track 1 and 2 are videos and 3,4 are audio, I will have to manually skip to track 3 in order to listen to the audio part. Commercial AVCD do not have such shorcomings.

I do own about 15 commercial AVCDs and have explored the structure and will explain in my next message. It has something to do with the difference in folder architecture between AVCD and a normal VCD. What Fireburner 1.06 do is to convert audio tracks from .WAV to . DAT. And then it throws all the video and audio tracks in the same "MPEGAV" folder. This made the CD player reading the audio tracks (first few tracks before audio) as well. Thus, one would have to skip track to the audio part.... That's from my understanding.

I would be happy if someone can help solve the Fireburner 2.17 "Test Burn" thing.

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

It seems there are many arguments on AVCD being just VCD 2.0. I would say it is part of VCD 2.0 family but it operates a little differently from a normal VCD

I don't know if this has been posted before but anyway..
Here's some point about AVCD that I would like to share.

Personally, I have made some comparison between a normal VCD and a AVCD and here's a few things that I find interesting:

Firstly AVCD comes with an additional folder called "CDDA". This folder is where they keep all the Audio tracks in . DAT format.

AVCD FOLDER:

AUDIO FILES (in .DAT format) in CDDA folder

VIDEO FILES in MPEGAV folder (as per normal)

(It seems I cannot upload the images from my PC so let's hope this works)

With this extra "CDDA' folder, one is able to play the the AVCD on the audio CD player tray and listen to the audio without having to manually skip all the video tracks. The CD player will flash "Track 1" and plays the audio track as track 1... then "Track 2" and so forth... (although the 1st audio track could be the eg 5th track on the tracklist)

If you play the same AVCD on a VCD/DVD player, the player will display "Track 1" and plays the Video track... then "Track 2" and so forth...

This is so clean and neat as the owner do not have to skip track on the normal audio CD player to the audio tracks.

Another point to note is that the video track usually comes before the audio track. I guess this is why Fireburner also puts Video before audio, as per VCD 2.0 compliance. Whatever, the AVCD will always have a tracklist for example:
1. *** (Music Video)
2. *** (Music Video)
3. *** (Music Video)
4. *** (Music Video)
5. *** (Audio track)
6. *** (Audio track)
7. *** (Audio track)
8. *** (Audio track)

But as mentioned before, putting this AVCD on a normal CD player, it will play the first audio track (5th track) as "Track 1".

I have not been successful in finding an existing programme that will allow me to add an additional CDDA folder onto a VCD settings (before I burn it) and also automatically convert all .WAV files which I have dragged in the list to .DAT format. I also haven't been successful with Fireburner 2.17 so I don't know if this issue has been tended to for that version. Fireburner 1.06 will simply add all the tracks (audio or video) into the same "MPEGAV" folder. User will have to manually skip the Video tracks to the audio track while playing the final product on an audio CD player.
BTW, I have tried using Nero and adding an extra folder "CDDA" to the VCD format but have been unsuccessful... They will also not allow me to alter the standard files

Is there anyone who knows if that Phillips programme will work well on this? How to use it to compile a AVCD?

vitualis · Moderator Joined: 01 Oct 2000 Location: Australia

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

http://www.vcdhelp.com/VCD2TK_CDDA.htm

i'm trying to make one right now

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

It was a real "mess" to create a "real" vcd with cdda but it worked:

Tools used: tmpgenc, philips vcd toolkit, splitter and gear demo

First fix the mpegs to philips toolkit format
http://www.vcdhelp.com/VCD2TK_TMPGEnc.htm
(i used toolame as audio encoder but that didn't philips toolkit vcd mux like so I had to encode with tmpgencs own encoder)

Then author the vcd with cdda
http://www.vcdhelp.com/VCD2TK_CDDA.htm
(i didnt use any menus or anything)

Split the image using splitter and manually make cuefile and burn with gear
http://www.vcdhelp.com/VCD2TK_Burn.htm

The vcd and audio works fine on my dvd but only the audio works on my computer(played the .dat files in the cdda folder). Haven't tried on a cd player yet.

nandi_nokuri · Member Joined: 24 Sep 2002

Why do you "split the image" ?

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

So I can burn it. Or do you know any burning tool that support philips toolkit .cd .toc files?

nandi_nokuri · Member Joined: 24 Sep 2002

Sorry Baldrick, I should have specified that this was sort of a newbie question. I have never used Philips before.

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

Okey, I thought that you had found a better way of burning...it was pretty tricky to get it working.

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

It seems that the Splitter program that I have downloaded from the website is not working on my PC. Does anyone why? Or am i missing something? I ran it on my destop.

PS: The VCD Toolkit is such a not-so-user-friendly programme....

So Baldrick, have you tried playing the "Real" AVCD on your CD player yet? Do you have to skip to the audio track?

vitualis · Moderator Joined: 01 Oct 2000 Location: Australia

nandi_nokuri · Member Joined: 24 Sep 2002

So is it safe to say that your old method Baldrick, doesn't work ? Or is this just a different way. Because for some reason, When I burn with Fireburner it only makes the cd an audio cd. It doesn't even have the correct file structure. Just cdda tracks. I don't know if I have the correct burn method or not.

vitualis · Moderator Joined: 01 Oct 2000 Location: Australia

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

My Philips CD player plays all the commercial AVCDs that I own with no problem. I am really interested in making one that works like the commercial one. Currently, I am stuck with the Splitter thing. It wants to split the Disc-Image so-called TOC file. Neither Splittler nor the Tocsplitter can be used now since no such file is being found on my PC.

But when I use the Toolkit to save a project file, I only get the .prj file and no such .toc file.

umm... very unsuccessful.

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

Yes, the method with Fireburner works. But it throw all audio and video tracks into the same folder, making the user having to skip the video tracks to the audio tracks when being played in normal audio player.
I am unable to fnd out why FireBurner 2.17 couldn't work on my PC while FireBurner 1.06 could.

Oh yes, forgot to mention.... Am I stupid or what.. you have to run Splitter.exe using the DOS PROMPT.

Still... where is the toc file?

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

You should get a .toc and .cd file when you build the image in Philips toolkit
Project->Build

be sure to check that you dont get any errors also.

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

"Building" met with error... thus .toc file not done.

It gives an error message:

Cont

Actually an error msg was already created during the VCD Mux part but the multiplexing is nontheless successful.. thus I thought it was ok:

Anyway, this is what I did.

1. TMPGEnc to encode the video to a VCD 2.0 compliance mpeg (because most video that I have are of different compression. Usually use NERO and it requires TMPGEnc encoding if want to create VCD 2.0)

2. Using TMPGEnc to Demultiplex the Encoded videos, to .mpv and .mpa format (using the settings given in the website)

3. Use VCD Mux to multiplex. (error message found)

4. Use VCD2k\Assets to add tracks

5. Use VCD2k\Tracks and drag the audio part into the window.

6. VCD2k\Build. Ends up with Error described above.

Anything i did wrong?

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

It is probably cause of the vcd mux error. I found that it will ONLY work if you encode the audio separate to mpa using tmpgenc(load vcd template, load unlock template and select audio only). It wont work if you demultiplex with tmpgenc and do not either use toolame as encoder or you will get the "read past end of file"-error. You don't have to reencode the video only the audio part.

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

It seems to be random if it works to mux or not...works some time and some not...or maybe not....avoid use the demultiplexed audio and it seems to work.

desireless · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2002

Yes, Baldrick you're right. Using "unlock.mcf" with TMPGEnc would resolve that issue.

So now I am at the splitter part.
I have for example 5 video tracks and 3 audio tracks. It seems that they would want me to input the SECTOR NUMBER. How would I know the "START SECTOR" of each Video track? And for the Audio tracks?

The "Splitting multi-Track" page mentioned about opening the .toc file to " list the sector offsets for all the tracks in the disc image". How shoud I go about access this .toc file that i have created? It seems that without being able to view this file, I won't know the sector numbers.

Just another question about the AVCD that you have done successfully. Does it come with an extra CD-DA folder that I mentioned before?

Baldrick · Administrator Joined: 09 Aug 2000 Location: Sweden

this guide explains exactly how to use splitter
http://www.icdia.org/cdprosupport/vcd/vcd2x/tk_split.htm

And yes I got the cdda folders. I have also tried it on a kinda old cd player and it played the first two tracks(silent), the fireburnt vcd with cdda played exactly the same. I think it is up to the cd player to skip data/vcd tracks or maybe you must change something in philips toolkit.