|
|
INDEX F.A.Q. SEARCH LATEST POSTS
Rules Register Profile Private messages Login
| Author |
Message |
lmichiel
Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2001
|
|
Hi All
I need some OBJECTIVE advice on the type of DVD burner I should purchase. I know there are strong feelings against DVD+RW but looking at those threads I find them biased to say the least
I need some hard and proven arguments telling me why I shouldn't buy a DVD+RW (I have a Lenco DVD02 and it can handle both DVD-RW and DVD+RW so that isn't an issue)
Any help is appriciated!
cheers
Leo
_________________
Equipment:
Athlon 1700 XP system
512 Mb RAM
Geforce 3 Ti500 64mb
1x 100 Gb hard disc (IDE)
1x 40 Gb hard disc (IDE)
1x 40 Gb hard disc (firewire)
|
|
bugster
Moderator
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Location: UK
|
|
How to start a flame war in one easy lesson!!
I have a Pioneer A03 (DVD-R) and am happy with it so far, but from what I have read about DVD+R, its mostly down to personal choice, cost (drive & media) and intended use. Basically, read as much as you can about both drive types and make your own mind up.
|
|
lattedfw
Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2001
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
|
|
I have a Pioneer A03 as well and am also very happy with it. At the time I bought it, DVD+RW was the only + format available. Still, I had decided not to buy +R/RW and would choose -R/RW again today because, although I am not a video professional, it is the format currently most used (Authoring and General) by video professionals. Also, it is an official approved format (for whatever that is worth). Both these facts made me more comfortable with my choice to go -R/RW.
I'm sure + and - formats are almost the same, so if someone handed me a +R/RW writer today, I wouldn't complain.
|
|
yg1968
Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2002
|
|
I have a +R drive and I would tell you the same thing as lattedfw. It's a matter of choice but you will probably be happy with either choice. You will find that the hardest part is finding the right software to use to make your DVDs. If you go with the +RW, make sure that it also has +R. Some stores still sell burners that can't write to +R. For a +RW/+R drive make sure that it comes with a compatibility setting program for the +RW disc as it often improves chances of playback of a +RW disc on your DVD player (Ricoh and HP have such programs, the Sony drive doesn't). The compatibility of +R and -R are similar. Writing to a DVD+R or +RW is apparently quicker (about 20 minutes in my case).
Perhaps you should ask your question on more than one forum to see what kind of a response you get on each forum. Try these:
www.dvdplusrw.org
http://www.dv-info.net/
|
|
aceattorney
Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
|
|
jonhildrum
Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
|
|
I will agrre with those who said - "Your Choice"
I did quite a bit of investigation around prior to buying one myself. I ended up buying a +R/RW drive.
It is difficult to get good information since there seems to be very strong biases both ways.
At present both the -r/-rw drives and the media is cheaper than the +r/RW drives and its media.
Why did I get a +R/RW drive ?? Well it was a close call and I really did it more on my "hunch" than anything else.
|
|
ABEG
Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2002
|
|
I would recommend going with DVD-R/RW at this point. The media and the drives are cheaper and compatibality has been proven with the -R/RW media, whereas +R/+RW compatability is still debatable.
+RW and -RW basically have the same compatability ratings. It is really the +R that has yet be proven to be as compatible as -R media.
The other main difference right now is speed with + burning at 2.4X and - at only 2X although if you are really worried about speed you should probablly just wait a few months until the faster burners come out. I read that the 4X burners should be out around September.
|
|
mpb
Member
Joined: 30 May 2002
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
|
Indeed.
We're less than 90 days from 4x burners of both flavors. If you are determined to pick up a DVD writer now, there is really only one best choice... the Pioneer 104 DVD-R/RW from esbuy.com at $254.49.
It's a known-to-be-excellent drive at a price that makes me wish I had waited. I bought mine from esbuy months ago at $350. It replaced an older hp +RW drive I had that did not write +R and had compatibility problems. Newer + drives are better, but if you want to go that route, it's worth waiting... since the + drives are only as low as $330 (Ricoh).
Also, with Pioneer 104 drives in all Sony VAIO and Apple iMac and Powermac computers, you know that the installed user base is there for the foreseeable future, making strong drive and firmware support likely to continue.
Once the 4x burners come out, just get whichever type you want... they will have newer and better firmware, and will write better discs than before... and compatibility issues should decrease over time.
_________________
-MPB/AZ
|
|
ember
Supreme
Joined: 03 Apr 2001
|
|
Forget it; wait for DVD*RW to arrive - they are multi storage compat. with an XODK rating - which means total functionality in all countries.
|
|
rustolem
Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2002
|
|
Which format do home theater DVD players use the most, the DVD+ or the DVD- ??? thats what im basing my buying decision on when it comes to a DVD writer...
thanks
Rustolem
|
|
Kusanagi
Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2001
|
|
MoovyGuy
Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2002
Location: Canada
|
|
| Kusanagi wrote: |
| rustolem wrote: |
Which format do home theater DVD players use the most, the DVD+ or the DVD- ??? thats what im basing my buying decision on when it comes to a DVD writer...
thanks
Rustolem |
Well, the same Forum (DVD Forum) which backs the DVD Video standard is behind DVD-R/-RW and now the DVD Multi standard (-R/-RW/RAM) (http://dvdforum.com/tech-dvdmulti.htm). They also warn against DVD+RW (since it's not an official DVD approved standard) as seen here - http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/mess.htm#notice |
Kusanagi, that not what the question said.
| Quote: |
| "Which format do home theater DVD players use the most". |
And the answer should say, either as a home theatre DVD player is just that\, a DVD player. What they can play depends on the players spec's. This site contains a wealth of info on which players can play what standards.
You also say
| Quote: |
| They also warn against DVD+RW (since it's not an official DVD approved standard) |
Should state no an official DVD Forum approved standard.
My two cents
Oh, anf BTW, I own drives from both standards, and am happy with both ..... I do not find one more compatible than the other. But that is simply my experience, your milage may vary ....
_________________
Da MoovyGuy
|
|
Kusanagi
Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2001
|
|
| Quote: |
| And the answer should say, either as a home theatre DVD player is just that\, a DVD player. What they can play depends on the players spec's. This site contains a wealth of info on which players can play what standards. |
Oh, ok. I just figured he was looking at it as a DVD video playback device only (DVD-Video - which is an official DVD Forum approved standard, alongside DVD-R/-RW and now DVD Multi). You are correct though about the individual player specs, since most new DVD players can read/play mp3s CDs, CD audio on CD-R media, WMA CDs, JPEGs on CD-R/RW, DVD-Audio, etc.
| Quote: |
| Should state no an official DVD Forum approved standard. |
However, the DVD Forum is the largest recognizible body behind the DVD-Video standard (http://dvdforum.com/about-mission.htm), and has over 230+ active members - http://dvdforum.com/about-memberlist.htm.
Also, because of the DVD Forum behind DVD-R/-RW and its presence, I see more and more new DVD players advertised that they can play DVD-R/-RW (some of the new Panasonic ones can even play DVD-RAM media, too), but not a single mention of DVD+R or DVD+RW - mostly because DVD+RW is not an officially recognized standard by the DVD Forum and the consumer is left to guess about DVD+R/+RW compatibility. Quick random example here - http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=1&cat=32&scat=&e=11099605 - I see no mention of DVD+R or DVD+RW compatibility...
Kusanagi
|
|
jowel13
Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
|
|
Whether one is a "Standard" or not doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean it's the more compatible format. Until there is substantial reviews and evidence of DVD-R vs. DVD+R compatibility, one can only speculate about the compatability tests.
Here is an article from ZDNet that tested the HP DVD+RW 200i vs. the Pioneer A04...
http://www.zdnet.com/supercenter/stories/overview/0,12069,561205,00.html
http://www.zdnet.com/supercenter/stories/review/0,12070,561208,00.html
They gave the HP DVD+RW a 7.5 over the Pioneer A04 with 6.9
| Quote: |
| But performance is only one criterion for judging DVD recordable drives, especially if you plan to burn home-movie discs. A preburned DVD+R provided by HP worked in every player we tested it in, including some real antiques that wouldn't play DVD-Rs. This initial success is promising, but it's still early in the DVD+R game; we'll continue to test this disc and others we've burned ourselves in as many drives and players we can. |
| Quote: |
The most sensible choice
The DVD200i is an impressive performer and an excellent choice as a backup drive. Furthermore, DVD+R media may prove to be the most compatible DVD-recordable format. If you want or need a DVD burner today, a DVD+RW drive, such as the HP, is the sensible choice.
- by H.G. Bryant |
Of course you can't base ONE article on whether or not a format wins over the other, but it gives some evidence that the DVD+RW format isn't as BAD as people here say. There is a strong bias everywhere you go.
Factual Differences between DVD+RW and DVD-RW.
DVD-RW only can write at 1x speed (DVD-R can write at 2x speed), while DVD+RW/+R can write at 2.4x speed.
DVD+RW can close/finalize discs faster.
DVD-R Media is slightly cheaper than DVD+R media as of right now, but only by a .50-$1.00 for QUALITY Media. If anything DVD+R media may catch up in price by the end of the month.
A Big reason for the "hateing" of DVD+RW drives was because of the promise of the first generation drives being able to write DVD+R by a "simple firmware upgrade." That honestly didn't happen and a lot of customers were raged (which they should have been).
In conclusion, do your research and watch for bias posters. Both formats bring out the best of each other because one wants to win the war over the other! 
|
|
Kusanagi
Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2001
|
|
nemethmik
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
|
|
From technology point of view it does not matter.
However, you can buy a Pioneer A04 below $300 and a Panasonic LFD311 around $300. Why the hell would you pay $500 for an +R/RW burner?
|
|
mpb
Member
Joined: 30 May 2002
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
|
| nemethmik wrote: |
From technology point of view it does not matter.
However, you can buy a Pioneer A04 below $300 and a Panasonic LFD311 around $300. Why the hell would you pay $500 for an +R/RW burner? |
+ burners are now cheaper than that by far on the open market. Ricoh's flagship unit can be had for $330 and change from esbuy.com.
- burners just get cheaper and cheaper as well. Pioneer's 104 is $250 from the same place.
Like I said, this becomes a moot point in mere WEEKS. The third generation of DVD writers is upon us, at 4x burn speed, and all indications are that both - and + drives will produce compatible writes more reliably.
For now, the present day, more home theater devices can play DVD-R than any other type of recordable DVD. And that's a fact.
If you EVER want to do any serious video work, go DVD-RW... if it's for your own personal amusement and archiving, either type is fine.
_________________
-MPB/AZ
|
|
jowel13
Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
|
|
| nemethmik wrote: |
From technology point of view it does not matter.
However, you can buy a Pioneer A04 below $300 and a Panasonic LFD311 around $300. Why the hell would you pay $500 for an +R/RW burner? |
$500? Where are you getting your info from?
Ricoh MP5125 at www.compgeeks.com for $297
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=RW5125
Second Generation Drive Supporting both DVD+RW/R
| Quote: |
| For now, the present day, more home theater devices can play DVD-R than any other type of recordable DVD. And that's a fact. |
Please quote the source of the "fact."
| Quote: |
| If you EVER want to do any serious video work, go DVD-RW |
What makes DVD-RW better for 'video work' than DVD+RW? DVD+RW writes at 2.4x speed, while DVD-RW writes at 1x, and DVD+RW has Accurate lossless linking as well as background formatting and all that other mojo.
|
|
nemethmik
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
|
|
| mpb wrote: |
| Ricoh's flagship unit can be had for $330 and change from esbuy.com. |
How can they sell the Ricoh so much cheaper, since this Ricoh unit is the only +R/+RW unit. The others: HP, Sony, Philips, etc just OEM this unit and sell for $500.
|
|
nemethmik
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
|
|
| jowel13 wrote: |
| $500? Where are you getting your info from? |
This is the retail price of HP and Sony +R/+RW units.
This is a +RW-only unit.
Anyway, you're right, both technologies can be bought at the same price.
Now I'm sure it really does not matter what technology to go for.
A couple of months ago when the +R/+RW drive was nowhere I went for Panasonic LF-D311 DVD-RAM/R and then Pioneer DVR-104 DVD-RW/R; they work fine: DVD-RAM is the best for data storage and archiving because it has drive letter access (DLA) built in XP; DVD-R is possibly the most compatible format. DVD-RW is compatible enough to burn test/prototype versions of my DVD movies to try them on standalone DVD players before burning the final DVD-R. I also bought a Hitachi GD-8000 DVD-ROM unit that can read all DVD Forum formats.
DVD+R/+RW promises the same advantages, but I stay with the DVD Forum formats especially now when I'm considering buying a Panasonic DMR-E20 or E30 and a Hitachi DVD camcorder.
I'm quite sure it really does not matter wether -R/RW or +R/RW if you do not go for any of these Panasonic/Hitachi DVD-RAM gears.
Possibly I'd pick again the DVD Forum formats because their wider acceptance.
|
|
jowel13
Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
|
|
| Quote: |
jowel13 wrote:
Ricoh MP5125 at www.compgeeks.com for $297
This is a +RW-only unit. |
Sorry my friend,
The Ricoh RW5125 is the Second Generation Drive. The first generation drive was the MP5120A (Internal) and the MP5122E (External).
Please re-read the description from the website...
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=RW5125
| Quote: |
Supported Media Sizes:
- 4.7GB DVD+RW, DVD+R Media / Supported DVD+R Writing Modes:
- Sequential Write / Supported DVD+RW and DVD+R Writing Formats:
- DVD-ROM
- DVD-Video |
|
|
mpb
Member
Joined: 30 May 2002
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
|
| jowel13 wrote: |
| mpb wrote: |
| For now, the present day, more home theater devices can play DVD-R than any other type of recordable DVD. And that's a fact. |
Please quote the source of the "fact." |
Take your pick:
www.dvddemystified.com and the official worldwide DVD FAQ, both electronic and print published versions;
Also those guides to your left here on vcdhelp.com.
DVD-R has about 90% compatibility with existing set-top players. DVD+R, +RW, and -RW are all less often compatible, 65-75%.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| If you EVER want to do any serious video work, go DVD-RW |
What makes DVD-RW better for 'video work' than DVD+RW? DVD+RW writes at 2.4x speed, while DVD-RW writes at 1x, and DVD+RW has Accurate lossless linking as well as background formatting and all that other mojo. |
All of which makes a +R disc unacceptable for replication. If you're going to do video work that will get sold, replicated, contracted out, or archived (especially medical-grade), you had better darned well use THE standard format, which is DVD-R. If you don't know about any of these things, do read the DVD FAQ for starters, and follow many links from it for further info. Also, most DVD burning is done with -R, not -RW... you don't pay eight bucks for a disc to put on your shelf. You pay two bucks. And with the esbuy, meritline, and primedisc -R media, the quality and 2x burning are there, at two bucks a shot. +R just doesn't have that yet.
I'll put it this way: the boss tells you to put the merger presentation on a DVD and bring it to the 4510 building downtown, where it will be played for the stockholders of both companies. You don't know what kind of DVD player they will have. If you're still employed when the merger happens, you get a healthy raise. If the DVD doesn't play, you piss off upper management. Which format do you use, the one 90% likely to play or the one 70% likely to play?
Real life here, not theoretical. That's one sample of what people use this technology for. At my company, we don't even work in video full-time, but we make DVDs for convention appearances, accreditation reviews, and so forth. Guess what gets used?
Hey, just live with it... +R is functional, but it's consumer-level stuff. It's like the TV with the VCR built in, in comparison.
_________________
-MPB/AZ
|
|
jowel13
Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
|
|
Great Source,
I am almost 100% positive DVD+R is more than 70% compatible. I know I am not any "reliable resource above DVD MYSTEFIED" but I do have a DVD+RW/R Drive and I can guarantee you it works in more than 85% of the DVD Players I tryed it on (must've tried it on at least 30+ Players).
Then again, you don't have to believe me, I am just a WACK consumer.
I guess I am going to have to get fired for taking the 70% chance to the "Upper Management" than taking the "Elite DVD-Standard" DVD-R route!
|
|
jonhildrum
Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
|
|
I wouldn't know about compatibility in a lot of cd players. However, what I do know is that I have 2 different ones:
1. Pioneer dv-343 Plays DVD+RW, DVD+R created using moviefactory. It also plays VCD using CDR and CDRW made using Nero. It did not play VCD CDRW made using Roxio
2. Samsung dvd611 - It did not play any VCD whether I used Nero or Roxio. It did not play DVD+RW. It played DVD+R without problems | | |
